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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 10, 2016 04:54PM

Good catch Paul!! 164 ci makes em even better!

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Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
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..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 10, 2016 05:58PM

Paul,
Very interesting. Everything supports that this is the original engine, dated June '63; so the LS reliefs must have been introduced by then. The crankcase part number is 3786091 and is among the engineering drawings that I have scanned. It's dated 5-27-63 and I've been looking at it to see if the reliefs are shown; I don't see them, but I'm not well versed in these matters. For anyone interested I've posted the drawing here - but be aware , it's a huge (27 MByte) file. I noticed in the articles that Pedigo posted awhile back, Dave Newell say that when the 102HP engine was made available for FCs ... "By that time the 102HP situation had been bettered (by Chevy's internal 'Corvair Improvement Program'), better valves, valve rotaters and richer mixtures...", might the crankcase modified with the LS reliefs been in production and simply included in the package? I note that the right half of my crankcase does not have the three ribs also found in the LS crankcase, but I'm not sure if those have always been found with the reliefs.
Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: August 10, 2016 09:40PM

Steve, see you got 'er welded. Wasn't as hateful a job as you thought, eh? grinning smiley Great progress on getting it all torn down! thumbs up

-Mark

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 11, 2016 11:54AM

Closer inspection shows that the crankshaft has some scoring, and as per the discussion on the Engine Bearing thread, it needs to be turned or replaced.







I've decided to have it turned. My machine shop guy says the staining of the main journals is evidence of moisture (I never mentioned likely engine flooding), which he said also necessitates a regrind. Plan is for a 0.01 or 0.02.

I believe that the consensus on the Engine Bearing thread is that the stock main bearings in this engine are copper.


I'm not sure if these are still available (other than the NOS on ebay)?

Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: August 11, 2016 12:28PM

Crank certainly needs some help. Looks like that 1 con rod throw was without oil. Is this a 5607 crankshaft?

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 11, 2016 12:38PM

Yep, 5607.
Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: August 12, 2016 06:35AM

To back up slightly the piston damage is clearly detonation. Look at the area in the damaged area, it has little pock marks all over it. That is little bits of metal that have been vibrated off because of the high frequency of the detonation. The detonation is also a lot hotter and concentrated in the area you see.
Believe it or not diesels have the same issue with the cylinder walls in the water jacket!

BTW, what spark plugs were in the engine? My guess would be an L12Y Champion.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: ral1963 ()
Date: August 12, 2016 08:48AM

Well... a big chunk of the top of 5 or 6 could have easily been your "mystery" piece that blasted through the vent and punched out the case as it traveled around the engine at speed....? Then additional "satellite" could have followed continuing the destructive path...

I know how much "money" and time a rebuild costs...but I would replace (with either NEW or good used/tested parts) everything other than the date coded/part number stamped items specific to the VD block and L-62 engine option.

Rick Loving
Corvair historian & chronicler of useless facts
CORSA
Performance Corvair Group
Chicagoland Corvair Enthusiasts

RAL1963@COMCAST.NET
Just south of Chicago IL

Current Ride
63 Sprint Vert 140/4sp

Past Rides
60 700 Sedan 80hp PG
63 Monza Vert 102hp 4 spd
63 Monza Coupe 140hp 4 spd
63 700 Sedan 80hp 3 spd
64 Monza Vert 110hp 4 spd
64 Monza Coupe 95hp 3 spd
64 Monza Sedan 110hp PG
65 500 Coupe 95hp 4 spd
65 Monza Coupe 110hp PG
65 Corsa Coupe 140hp 4 spd
66 Turbo Coupe 180/4sp
68 Monza Vert 140hp 3 spd

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 12, 2016 03:14PM

Ken and Rick,
Detonation would be my first explanation and the classic problem of the 102HP in an FC, but wouldn't someone have had to continue to drive the vehicle after one, then two, (and who knows, maybe three) cylinders had lost compression? The spark plugs had been removed when we found the van - incriminating evidence concealed?

It is my intention to do pretty much what Rick has suggested - not much other then the date-coded components are worth saving - with the exception of lowering the compression. I see two approaches to do this that don't involve a lot of machining: adding extra head gaskets, or using Clark's "octane cut pistons" (though these would be expensive). Can anyone give me feed back on these options (or others)?
Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 12, 2016 03:16PM

Today I found the differential and transmission... under mounds of gunk! I cleaned them enough to open without dropping tons of crud inside.


Can anyone identify in the following pictures the big yellow 'X' on the differential carrier case, the metal tang on one of the differential cover bolts, and the letters "C67" painted on the differential ring gear?


There was plenty of oil in the differential but little fluid in the transmission. But overall, both look OK, and can be turned by hand. The end of the selector shaft is broken, and this will need to be replaced.


My plan is to have both disassembled as necessary to clean and inspect.

Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 12, 2016 07:51PM

In a separate thread T Pedigo wondered about replacement sets for tin bolts, Working with this original, unadulterated engine, I'm doing my best to carefully keep track of all the bolts, clips, connectors, etc as they are removed. During reassembly I want to get everything back where it came from.

I've ordered on Amazon small zip-lock bags of various sizes, e.g., 3" x 5", 3 x 8", etc. You can get a 100 of these for ~ $7. I also have larger food storage bags from the grocery store for larger stuff. As each piece of shrouding or component is removed, all the bolts, etc., go into a bag that's labeled with a sharpie.



All the bags go into drawers of a small card file, so that I can relatively quickly find the stuff when I need them


Granted, this takes longer, and is a challenge when your hands are greasy, but it really pays off later on.

Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: ral1963 ()
Date: August 13, 2016 06:55AM

Well....just my .02... (and not my wallet)

If the case is truly relieved for the 164cu crank, I would upgrade the internals for function and drive ability and go with the long stroke crank. With the need for pistons and cylinders...go larger than stock bore. Find decent used set of .040 over forged pistons, seems like there are more sets of these floating around as more and more guys go to big bore performance.

Since the engine was not only starved for oil, it was most likely OVERHEATED at the same time, so a full workup of the heads would be in order. It would be a great time to keep the original casting numbers, but have chambers re-worked to improve low end performance and reduce chance of future detonation.

Make it look like a L-62 102hp but perform much better...

Rick Loving
Corvair historian & chronicler of useless facts
CORSA
Performance Corvair Group
Chicagoland Corvair Enthusiasts

RAL1963@COMCAST.NET
Just south of Chicago IL

Current Ride
63 Sprint Vert 140/4sp

Past Rides
60 700 Sedan 80hp PG
63 Monza Vert 102hp 4 spd
63 Monza Coupe 140hp 4 spd
63 700 Sedan 80hp 3 spd
64 Monza Vert 110hp 4 spd
64 Monza Coupe 95hp 3 spd
64 Monza Sedan 110hp PG
65 500 Coupe 95hp 4 spd
65 Monza Coupe 110hp PG
65 Corsa Coupe 140hp 4 spd
66 Turbo Coupe 180/4sp
68 Monza Vert 140hp 3 spd

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 13, 2016 08:04AM

Rick,
I see my principal objective as restoration; it's not going to be a driver. I understand that the 102HP engine in the FC has inherently poor low end performance and (clearly) detonation issues. I would like to make some changes to lower the compression, but I have to consider the ticket price, which keeps going up.

I'm still unclear on some issues...

Wouldn't a LS crank + 0.04 overbore = much greater compression, which would necessitate (I believe) machining of the heads to lower compression and = lots of $$$ ??

I'm pretty sure I'm going to stick with the original crankshaft, unless my machinist says the turning was unsuccessful for some reason. The heads will be fully rebuilt, but I was hoping not to have them modified.

Within these constraints, do I have options for optimizing the performance while lowering the compression ?

Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 13, 2016 09:13AM

If not a regular driver... use multiple Cylinder Base Gaskets to lower the CR!!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 13, 2016 11:32PM

Shrouding and other parts have been degreased. I have a deep 20 gallon container of "purple power" degreaser that everything goes into overnight. Great stuff, overnight soaking loosens most paint also. At my local supplier, a 5 gallon container costs $22.50. *** But do not use on aluminum parts. ***

Here's everything ready to go; the top shroud wouldn't fit into the container. 43 items overall, mainly shrouding, but a few other items as well. Oops, make that 44, added the blower pulley. (Click on image to see larger version).


All are in pretty good shape, at most some surface rust. All these parts will be blasted and powder-coated ASAP; I don't want to let them sit around in the Mid-Ohio valley too long (current humidity: 81%) and further rust.
Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: August 14, 2016 12:53AM

One thing that doesn't seem to be common knowledge is that, for whatever reason, GM used special cylinder base gaskets on the 140/automatic w/a-c cars in '66. The gaskets are 0.010" thicker than the standard gaskets. Maybe they wanted to take the edge off the compression ratio?

-Mark

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: Pedigo ()
Date: August 14, 2016 04:28AM

Steve.
What's the issue with Purple Powerâ„¢ and aluminum?
I'm doing the entire motor with that stuff.

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 14, 2016 05:43AM

T,
I was told it will damage aluminum, so I've avoided using it. Has it worked OK for you?
Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: Pedigo ()
Date: August 14, 2016 06:24AM

So far,so good. I'm not soaking aluminum overnight or anything like that. Just spraying on,brushing and wiping down.
I read the thread about aircraft rivets and it being banned,but this is just a car and large casts of aluminum.

Water rinse would be good,but I don't do that near the engine openings for obvious reasons.

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: August 14, 2016 07:52AM

Make sure to use strong vinyl or rubber gloves around that stuff. It will give you a chemical burn if it stays in contact with your skin for very long. At least that was the case with the old stuff, but I don't know if they changed the formula since I last used it about 10 years ago.
In a diluted form, it is great for cleaning cloth upholstery. Be very carful around vinyl, because it will take the color out.

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Current Page: 4 of 28


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