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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 09, 2016 04:10PM

I'm speaking of finding more useable good parts than you thought there would be.

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Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 09, 2016 04:27PM

Tim,
Yes, on further reflection, I believe you're correct about that. Thanks.

Matt,
OK, I was expecting the worse smiling smiley

Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: August 09, 2016 06:35PM

The part of the crankcase that is broken out is non-essential. It does not need to be replaced, just blend the rough edges. If you do want to replace the piece make sure you bolt the case halves together before any welding is done.

There are two thickness of the top baffle, make sure that you replace with a thicker late model one.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 09, 2016 06:42PM

Ken,
Excellent suggestion about bolting CC together before welding. And I'll be looking for a late baffle.
Thanks,
Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: August 09, 2016 08:36PM

Me being a diemaker by trade, I've seen and repaired many a die with similar problems to the one you have with the block's broken out piece. Most important of all is this: do NOT just weld over the top of the crack.

The proper way to fix that broken out piece is to first grind away some of the mating crack edges, so that a "V" is formed when the two pieces are mated back together. That will give the weld some place to go and better join the two pieces with a deeper weld. Then position the broken-out piece into place and make sure it fits snugly together (you may have to persuade it into place with a hammer).

Then bolt the two case halves together TIGHTLY. Check with a .0015" feeler gauge to see if there is any gap in the block mating surface. If there is on the large part, don't worry about it. If there is a gap on the small chunk, then persuade it tight with a hammer. Then weld most of the crack, leaving the part at the block halves for later.

Separate the two block halves and check your block mating surface with a mill file. It should readily clean up smooth (here is where a diemaker skill comes into play.) Then weld the rest of the crack and resurface the block halves mating surface down to original, using first a grinder, then finishing with the mill file.

As I mentioned, I've fixed things like this many a time as a journeyman diemaker. To me, it's a piece of cake. But to someone inexperienced, it may be a bit of a challenge, especially to get the mating surface of the block just right. Best of luck with it, Steve, but if you need me, you know where I am.

-Mark

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: ral1963 ()
Date: August 10, 2016 03:12AM

WOW...the holes in the piston tops...

I am curious as to what the more experienced mechanic's believe what would have caused them to fail like that.

...and the crap in the oil pan, plus the push rod tubes...is that like dirt or sand?

That poor engine...it's like it was ran 100,000 miles on dirt roads with no air filter and open top carbs.

Rick Loving
Corvair historian & chronicler of useless facts
CORSA
Performance Corvair Group
Chicagoland Corvair Enthusiasts

RAL1963@COMCAST.NET
Just south of Chicago IL

Current Ride
63 Sprint Vert 140/4sp

Past Rides
60 700 Sedan 80hp PG
63 Monza Vert 102hp 4 spd
63 Monza Coupe 140hp 4 spd
63 700 Sedan 80hp 3 spd
64 Monza Vert 110hp 4 spd
64 Monza Coupe 95hp 3 spd
64 Monza Sedan 110hp PG
65 500 Coupe 95hp 4 spd
65 Monza Coupe 110hp PG
65 Corsa Coupe 140hp 4 spd
66 Turbo Coupe 180/4sp
68 Monza Vert 140hp 3 spd

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: ral1963 ()
Date: August 10, 2016 03:12AM

WOW...the holes in the piston tops...

I am curious as to what the more experienced mechanic's believe what would have caused them to fail like that.

...and the crap in the oil pan, plus the push rod tubes...is that like dirt or sand?

That poor engine...it's like it was ran 100,000 miles on dirt roads with no air filter and open top carbs.

Rick Loving
Corvair historian & chronicler of useless facts
CORSA
Performance Corvair Group
Chicagoland Corvair Enthusiasts

RAL1963@COMCAST.NET
Just south of Chicago IL

Current Ride
63 Sprint Vert 140/4sp

Past Rides
60 700 Sedan 80hp PG
63 Monza Vert 102hp 4 spd
63 Monza Coupe 140hp 4 spd
63 700 Sedan 80hp 3 spd
64 Monza Vert 110hp 4 spd
64 Monza Coupe 95hp 3 spd
64 Monza Sedan 110hp PG
65 500 Coupe 95hp 4 spd
65 Monza Coupe 110hp PG
65 Corsa Coupe 140hp 4 spd
66 Turbo Coupe 180/4sp
68 Monza Vert 140hp 3 spd

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: ral1963 ()
Date: August 10, 2016 03:12AM

WOW...the holes in the piston tops...

I am curious as to what the more experienced mechanic's believe what would have caused them to fail like that.

...and the crap in the oil pan, plus the push rod tubes...is that like dirt or sand?

That poor engine...it's like it was ran 100,000 miles on dirt roads with no air filter and open top carbs.

Rick Loving
Corvair historian & chronicler of useless facts
CORSA
Performance Corvair Group
Chicagoland Corvair Enthusiasts

RAL1963@COMCAST.NET
Just south of Chicago IL

Current Ride
63 Sprint Vert 140/4sp

Past Rides
60 700 Sedan 80hp PG
63 Monza Vert 102hp 4 spd
63 Monza Coupe 140hp 4 spd
63 700 Sedan 80hp 3 spd
64 Monza Vert 110hp 4 spd
64 Monza Coupe 95hp 3 spd
64 Monza Sedan 110hp PG
65 500 Coupe 95hp 4 spd
65 Monza Coupe 110hp PG
65 Corsa Coupe 140hp 4 spd
66 Turbo Coupe 180/4sp
68 Monza Vert 140hp 3 spd

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 10, 2016 03:24AM

I wasn't planning on doing this myself, but now I'm leaning more towards not replacing the broken piece in the crankcase, as several highly knowledgeable people have suggested; and with the complexities that Mark has mentioned above, I worry that it could be done wrong.

I believe all of the c**p on and in the engine is from being inundated in a flood with the valve covers and air cleaner canisters removed (as I found it). Could piston failure like this result from running it with no oil?

On another note... Thanks to Paul at Winvoices.com for sending the following very cool clipping. See Paragraph six.


Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: Darrin ()
Date: August 10, 2016 04:42AM

Can you post a pic of the back of the piston? Almost looks like it was warn away from the back, rather than from pre-detonation over time from the face (though that is far more likely. Nice project!

Darrin Hartzler
Bethesda, MD/Catlett, VA

Northern Virginia Corvairs & Group Corvair

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: August 10, 2016 06:29AM

Actually, replacing the broken piece and doing it correctly only sounds complicated. For those like myself who'd be skilled in such repairs (like in diemaking) it would not be difficult. As I said, I've done such repairs many times. It's the training and skill built up by years in the craft that make the difference. If you really want to have it repaired, it can be repaired. Make your judgement based on whether the engine would be best served with or without the piece in it, then go with that. I'll be more than happy to do whatever I can, if you decide my services and talent are needed.

Best wishes on getting this wonderful find back and running!

-Mark

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: August 10, 2016 06:40AM

There are many talented people that can do the welding, it will just be up to you to find them. I once had a part that I couldn't get the shaft apart, and no one that I knew of had a large enough of a press. I kept asking, and finally found a fellow with a machine shop in his cellar with a 7' ceiling. I was told that he had a 80 ton press, and could take just about anything apart. Knowing that my part was 54" long, I couldn't see how he could do it. The man then showed me that there was a hole in the floor under the press, that allowed the pressed out shaft to go into. He kept increasing the pressure, and at 40 tons, he said that it just wasn't going to move. The phone rang just then, and he left the press with the pressure still on the part. About 30 seconds later, there was a big bang, and the shaft started moving.
If I had given up, I would have had to dispose of the snowblower, since parts were no longer available. They made me a new shaft, and I got 10 more years out of that machine, before I sold it and replace it with a new Kubota. Last I heard, it is still going strong. Start asking around, as to who is a good aluminum welder. Small lawnmower or machine shops are the best places to ask, since they usually need this type of work done. Also try the local small town airport.

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: thumper477 ()
Date: August 10, 2016 07:52AM

In 45 years of playing with vairs that is the worst engine I have ever seen!

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 10, 2016 02:59PM

Well, it's a good that I like a challenge.

Here's some other pictures of the damaged pistons. For all three damaged pistons, the crown has been blown downward, which is clearly shown here



This is the rear; again, punched down from the combustion chamber. I see no damage to the connecting rods


So what would cause this type of piston damage but leave the heads undamaged??

Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 10, 2016 03:04PM

Since I've never seen it, but been warned..... all 3 are on one side?


Excessive starting Fluid / Either?

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 10, 2016 03:11PM

No, two on right side (#1 & #5), and #6 on left side.
Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 10, 2016 04:14PM

HMM.. the Mystery goes on...

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: August 10, 2016 04:17PM

Progress today on engine disassembly - and repair!

Removed the flywheel (torched the retainer ring around each rusty bolt head before removing), bellhousing, and engine rear housing. Some of the channels of the rear housing have a white powdery deposit. Does anyone have suggestions for the best way to clean this?



Split the crankcase; crankshaft looks good; still covered with oil, but camshaft is dry and some cams show surface rust - I'm assuming this will need to be replaced



Lots of dried muck around camshaft and lifters, which were seized. I had to tap, sometimes firmly, to get lifters out.


QUESTION: What should be done to the camshaft journals and lifter bores before assembly?

Here's the damaged crankcase half cleaned up. I saw no other significant damage.



CRANKCASE REPAIR
A local welder made the repair today, said it would be straightforward, but with precautions. Because of the way it broke, the piece could not be simply fitted back in place. Both surfaces were ground to clean and create a 'V' space for welding. It was decided to weld only on one side (the bottom)- further from the camshaft journals and lifter bores. I asked for strength not aesthetics - no one will see the weld


And the top, unwelded surface. The mating edge was ground flat.


Time to create a parts list.

Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 10, 2016 04:22PM

Making good headway!!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: Paulsgt ()
Date: August 10, 2016 04:32PM

Somewhat related...
If this is a correct 63 engine block. Why does it have the long stroke reliefs next to the cylinder holes? I thought these came about with the 64 engines?
(All part of my 41 year long education on these cars. And that I spent part of my morning grinding the reliefs into my 61 FC block for my long-stroke engine build)

Thanks!

Paul Sergeant
CORSA Central Division Director / CORSA Treasurer
Lee's Summit, MO
CORSA since 1975
Member – HACOA, Corvair Minnesota, CORSA, Little Indians, POCI


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Current Page: 3 of 28


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