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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: GWLee ()
Date: December 30, 2017 05:51AM

Steve have you considered using paint mask?

In the sign business I have I use it to cut Stencil's and then apply it to the painted surface. Paint the lettering or art work, then remove the paint mask. The good thing about it is the adhesive isn't as aggressive as what is on the vinyl, and it removes easily, without disturbing the paint it is applied on.

I bought it in a roll, just like the vinyl and cut it in my machine. Or hand cut with an exacto knife.

Good luck, but it sounds like you have a plan. Hopefully this time it works well.

Lee Adkins

A Cave Man car
1960 2dr Coupe with pg
Color Tasco Turq.
With Ermine white top.

Catlettsburg,
In the Beautiful state of
North/East KY!

Not the best pic, but the only I had from then, 1997!

2016!

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: December 30, 2017 06:03AM

Lee,
I'm open to all possibilities; can you provide a link or other information so that I read up on this?
Thanks,
Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: GWLee ()
Date: December 30, 2017 06:27AM

You indicated that the body shop guy has a system to cut vinyl. Just have him look in his book for vinyl and supplies. That is where I bought it.

Shouldn't be difficult for him to find.

I'll try and locate a link for it, just in case he hasn't seen it before.

Lee Adkins

A Cave Man car
1960 2dr Coupe with pg
Color Tasco Turq.
With Ermine white top.

Catlettsburg,
In the Beautiful state of
North/East KY!

Not the best pic, but the only I had from then, 1997!

2016!

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: December 30, 2017 06:33AM

OK; I get it now. Sounds like doing the same process as what he originally proposed, but instead of cutting and transferring the letters, letter masks are used (just as in my original plan). Yes, I'm sure he knows about this, and I'll ask him about using that approach.
Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: GWLee ()
Date: December 30, 2017 06:36AM

[www.uscutter.com]

Here is a link to one brand. There are many many choose from!

Just type in the search, "paint mask for signs" that should bring up a number.

Lee Adkins

A Cave Man car
1960 2dr Coupe with pg
Color Tasco Turq.
With Ermine white top.

Catlettsburg,
In the Beautiful state of
North/East KY!

Not the best pic, but the only I had from then, 1997!

2016!

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: January 03, 2018 05:56PM


So, we're getting back on track, the damaged paint and lettering on the side panel and most of the doors have been removed (all the way back to bare metal) and reprimed. The consensus view is that the first attempt failed because the base coat had not adequately cured (lettering had been applied after about 18 hours).

(somewhere under all that masking paper is a Greenbrier)

All the lettering is going to be redone by computer and the stencils prepared with a laser vinyl cutter. I put forth Lee's suggestion about using the masks rather than the vinyl letters, and it was agreed that this was a better idea. Better especially since we can use the original gold enamel paint, which is a good match of the original.

As you can see, Rick has achieved a good match to the original letter font; a little bolder. It's also a much cleaner cut than what I had obtained cutting them by hand.

Every precaution will be taken next time. The entire van will be painted with base coat and a single top coat, then lightly sanded before applying the vinyl.

Steve


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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: bbakerga ()
Date: January 03, 2018 08:50PM

Steve, I have a suggestion. I would strongly suggest NOT using a font. The original hand-painted letters look different than the font in that photo. I do a lot of graphic work and design stuff pretty often that is cut out of vinyl.

My suggestion is to scan all of your tracings and draw each letter exactly in a program like Adobe Illustrator (your guy may have it or something similar). After everything is drawn and sized accurately, it can be easily imported into his vinyl-cutting software, and cut. That way, you can reproduce the original hand-painted letters EXACTLY, instead of using a “similar” font.

The process sounds difficult, but it’s not that bad... certainly nothing compared to the work you have done on most of the parts you’ve restored already.

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: January 03, 2018 09:26PM

Good Suggestion. I'll ask about the possibility tomorrow.
Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Date: January 04, 2018 02:50AM

Steve, I found a webpage for a Sign Artist in Columbus.

Here's another place in Dayton

Nothing beats real hand lettered work! I used to do this many years ago...


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2018 02:53AM by 1966-Corsa-GT-180.

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: January 23, 2018 07:22PM


Most things tend to work out for the best, and Firebrier letter certainly has. The feedback I receive on the Forum is invaluable, especially when weighing alternative options, and I listened to the sage advice offered above. I decided to have the lettering redone exactly as originally planned, using stencils cut to match the original letters exactly, but prepared this time with a laser cutter.

This involved a bit of work since all the stencils needed to be redrawn, and most of the originals had been used in the first abortive lettering attempt. Fortunately, I had saved the backing strips (what needs to be peeled off to exposed the adhesive of the vinyl), and these and the remaining stencils were then scanned. Because of their length, most needed to be scanned in sections and then pieced together digitally Here's some of the steps:

The sections were stitched together in Photoshop, and the image was then used as a background from which a vector outline was prepared in Corel Draw, the vector image was then filled black. This was done for all 11 stencils, and the files were passed on to Rick (my super body shop guy), who then further cleaned up the edges with his software before cutting the stencils. As a result, the letters have much cleaner edges than what I had achieved cutting them by hand.

All of the areas that were previously lettered had to be sanded all the way back to metal, and then reprepped. The lettering base this time was on clear coat that was lightly sanded. This is to assure adhesion of the gold enamel as well as the subsequent clear coats.

Rick's vinyl comes sandwiched between upper and lower backers. The lower is peeled to expose the the adhesive. Here is one piece applied, but with the upper sheet still in place,


All the doors are being lettered off the the vehicle because of the impracticality of painting them on the hinges. I spent several hours carefully measuring (and remeasuring) to position stencils correctly, and then squeegying them into place; a lot of guide tape was used to maintain alignment. I asked Rick to double check all measurements - a good move since one was slightly misplaced. And thus another advantage of laser cut stencils... screw it up? - just peel it off and cut a replacement. When the stencils were secured, the upper layer was removed to expose the stencil for painting.


And so they were, beautifully done, and the vinyl came off without a hitch.




I'm really lucky to have a first-rate body shop guy. I have no doubt that he is as concerned about the final result as I am; never a complaint when we've run into problems, and always the attitude that it will be done right.

Next up: The surface of the lettering will be lightly scotch-bright pad sanded before clear coating. but before clear coating the roof will be finished. We're applying 5 clear coats, with sanding after the third.
Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: cad-kid ()
Date: January 24, 2018 04:47AM

The attention to detail is over the top! Super impressive thumbs up

Jeremy (cad-kid)
Kronenwetter, WI (Central Wisconsin)
CORSA Member#031129
SOLD-9-2016 65 Monza 4spd/140
My 65 Monza thread
My YouTube page yawning smiley

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: eddieb ()
Date: January 24, 2018 07:37AM

Steve,makes you wonder how this was done originally without computers and lasers etc. EddieB Dade City,Fl

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: eddieb ()
Date: January 24, 2018 07:37AM

Steve,makes you wonder how this was done originally without computers and lasers etc. EddieB Dade City,Fl

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: January 24, 2018 08:52AM

Ed,
The lettering was originally hand-painted, and I've come to appreciate the skill with which it was done, including the sizing and layout of the letters.

Consider the lettering on the rear...


...with "EMERGENCY" displayed evenly across the doors. The visual symmetry was achieved even though there are four letters ("EMER") on the left door and five letters ("GENCY") on the right door. This difference is not apparent to the casual view because the size and the spacing of the letters is almost imperceptibly altered to create equal sized margins on either side of the word.

I found subtle differences in letter proportions on all sides. This is one reason why it would be difficult to replace the original lettering with a modern, standard font.
Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: corventure Dave ()
Date: January 24, 2018 10:08AM

Your right Steve. I see that the M looks wider than the other letters and the G is right at the door seam. It really fools the eye nicely.
Quite a talent the original sign painter had.

Corventure Dave

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: SteveInMarietta ()
Date: January 31, 2018 08:14PM

Five clear coats later.



The doors are spread out over a good stretch of the shop - I'm not sure many shops would even consider dedicating this much space to one vehicle. Rick says he finds time as he can to work on the Firebrier - lots of fender-bender work coming in these days. So he's been sanding and buffing as time permits; lettering looks, well... tremendous!

Ever since one of his employees left a couple of months ago, Rick is working short-handed. He says it's getting harder and harder to find skilled auto body technicians - maybe soon a lost craft.

But getting the doors back on certainly is a priority, so he's looking at painting the hinges ASAP, and I'm going back tomorrow to fit the door hinge grommets.
Steve

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: igottajob2 ()
Date: February 01, 2018 06:53AM

Looks GREAT!!!!!!!!!!smileys with beer

Minneapolis,MN

1965 500 Coupe
95HP

Built the 1st week of April of 65 at willow run.
500 coupe. The only factory accessory is a rear antenna.
White with a red interior.
Now black with black and red interior.


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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: Nickshu ()
Date: February 01, 2018 07:02AM

Looks awesome Steve, keep up the good work!

Nick
_______________________________________________________________________
1964 Monza Spyder Convertible #435 - Rotisserie restored - Check out my restoration thread here: [corvaircenter.com]
Recreational Mechanic/CORSA Member/COG Supporting Member/US Navy Veteran
Northern Colorado, USA

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: bbakerga ()
Date: February 01, 2018 07:43AM

This is EASILY my favorite Greenbrier in the world. I can't wait to see it done!

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Re: FC Fire Dept Truck Restoration
Posted by: fred bagnall ()
Date: February 01, 2018 07:57AM

Looks great, your attention to detail is impeccable. thumbs up


64 Greenbrier std -110, 4spd,barn find on the road again after 46 year hiatus.
66 Turbo Corsa, 180hp,posi-trac, quick steering HD suspension,AM-FM-multiplex,soft-Ray glass all around
Floridian currently residing in Nor Cal

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