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Good News Bad News - I need Advise
Posted by: Tom C ()
Date: February 18, 2005 09:44PM

The good news:

Well gang my Corvair Monza 4-Speed Convertible was delivered today.

The bad news:

The darn thing won't start. When I went to look at and purchase this car, the block was cold, it cranked right up, I drove it around for almost an hour, and it ran great. The shipping company didn't have any trouble starting it and driving it when loading and unloading the car. I hooked up a timing light to the #1 cylinder, had my wife crank the ignition and it is getting spark. I sprayed starter fluid into both carbs, it ran until it exhausted the starter fluid. I used my hand and repeatedly pumped the throttle and no fuel squired in the carb. I pulled the fuel line from the fuel pump to the left carb, hooked a rubber hose to it and set the end into a coffee can. Had the wife crank and crank but no fuel came out. I tried pulling up on the fuel pump and it is not loose at all. Oh, and it has a full tank of gas. I finally gave up and had my neighbor help me push it up a steep inclined driveway into the garage. I thought I was going to strain something.

How is the best way to reprime the fuel pump? What things should I check? Any advise is welcome.

Thanks,

Tom C

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Re: Good News Bad News - I need Advise
Posted by: "UNSAFE" ()
Date: February 18, 2005 10:33PM

>>>What things should I check?<<<

disconnect short fuel hose from tank to see if fuel flows. Use caution, it may gush out. Sock in tank may be clogged.


A hole or crack in the fuel line(s) anywhere along the line will cause the pump to suck air instead of fuel.

The fuel pump may be bad.

Maybe you just didn't crank it enough to draw fuel from the tank after transporting?

You could try running a hose to the pump from a portable fuel source.

You could disconnect the fuel supply line at the pump and feel for suction with your finger while your wife cranks it over.

You could remove the pump and test it by hand pumping.

Are you sure it's full, or could the gauge be lying?

Oh yeah, did I mention the fuel pump may be bad.

"UNSAFE"

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Problem is ONLY fuel starvation
Posted by: Larry Forman ()
Date: February 18, 2005 11:45PM

Hi Tom,
The good news is that your only problem is fuel starvation, since running it with spray fuel starts the engine. So let's find the fuel starvation.

I agree with Unsafe about the air leaking line leading into the fuel pump, UNLESS you caused the fuel pump diaphram to rupture with your mechanical pumping action. Some people specifically recommend AGAINST doing the mechanical hand pumping action since it can excessively strain the diaphrams and cause premature failure.

Here is what I would do:
1. First REPLACE the rubber fuel inlet line running into the engine compartment. This is likely your problem. I had one like this that drove me NUTS. Just replace it because. This is above the driver's side axle. While there, I would add an inline clear plastic fuel filter and carry a spare with you. It is high mounted so it will stay out of harms way. About $8-10 including line, filter and clamps.
2. As Unsafe recommends, check for something starving the fuel pump inlet. I would go to an auto parts shop and get a line with the fitting to fit the fuel pump inlet along with some clear plastic line maybe 6 feet long that fits snugly onto the line. Cut one end off if it has fittings on each end. Use a hose clamp and place the open end of the hose into a gas can. Then use the starter to pump the fuel. I bet this will demonstrate you have fuel running into your carbs. You might not have accelerator pump squirts since the diaphrams quickly harden and might not be sealing. Replacing these should be a top priority if the pump squirt is weak or nonexistant, AFTER you get it running. Cut the tapered nozzle off a tube of RTV and use a short piece of it as a tapered installation tool for the new pump cups and avoid destroying them while installing them.
3. Make DARN sure you did not over tighten the 1/2 inch bolt going into the fuel pump housing. If you ran it in too far, it can bind up the fuel pump rod and prevent pumping. Back it off, make sure it is running into the cone shaped opening in the fuel pump and slowly tighten it while gently moving the fuel pump body up and down. Then the bolt has bottomed out without excessive pressure on the fuel pump body, lock down the 9/16-inch nut.
4. If you get it running with the gas can but not with the car's fuel inlet AND a replaced inlet hose, you might have something blocking fuel or leaking air in the gas tank to engine compartment inlet hose. Make darn sure you have a VENTED gas cap, since a non-vented one will prevent fuel flow or collapse your fuel tank if you had a really strong fuel pump (doubtful). Disconnect the fuel inlet line and place the end in a catch container. Pressurize the gas tank filler possibly by taking an air compressor line and a rag to seal the filler tube. If you pressurize the gas tank, gas should flow freely to the catch container. If not, check for a plugged fuel tank "sock" or possibly plugged fuel delivery line. Any air leaks will become fuel leaks, so check carefully for any fuel leakage.
5. It is possible you have plugged carb inlet filters. I bet not, but to check, when doing #2 above, you could disconnect one carb inlet line and run it to a catch can or watch carefully for any fuel starting to pump then stop quickly and mop up. BTW, Grant Young has wonderful cleanable stainless steel mesh inlet filters for reasonable.
6. There are other ideas, but this will likely do it. Let us know otherwise.

Now, some safety cautions. Always have a fire extinguisher handy when playing with Corvairs and fuel systems in particular. Don't use any incandescent drop lights under the car. If dropped, the bulb can break and the voltage can ignite any fuel vapors. BTW, this caution is in the CORSA Tech Guide. LOL. Good advice regardless.

Finally, it is always nice to hear what you found as the cause after your car is driving under it's own power.

--Larry

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Re: Good News Bad News - I am SO EMBARRESSED!
Posted by: Tom C ()
Date: February 19, 2005 07:39AM

Before I read your posts, my 7 year old daughter figured it out. She said "Why don't you just put some gas in it?". Just for grins I ran 3 feet of metal fish tape down the spout of the gas tank. When I pulled it back out it was dry. You are right Unsafe, it IS a lying fuel gauge.

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Re: Good News Bad News - I am SO EMBARRESSED!
Posted by: Chris ()
Date: February 19, 2005 08:28AM

Tom,

Am I correct to assume that you have it running now?

Chris
NTCA
CORSA
'64 Monza 'vert

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Re: Good News Bad News
Posted by: Matt Nall ()
Date: February 19, 2005 12:44PM

That's the bad thing about the gauges..disconnected they read FULL.....go under the car and ground the wire...gauge should go down...

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Re: Good News Bad News - I need Advise
Posted by: madgrinder ()
Date: February 19, 2005 01:46PM

mmmmm ........... ain't no gas in it.....mmmm.....hhhmmmmmm.


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Re: Good News Bad News - I am SO EMBARRESSED!
Posted by: Tom C ()
Date: February 20, 2005 09:02AM

Chris,

Yes it is running now. It fired right up once I put fuel in it. But wooo wee I really stunk up the garage, and that was with the doors open. The car runs well but it will need some fine tuning, especially the chokes.

Tom

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Re: Good News Bad News - I am SO EMBARRESSED!
Posted by: Matt Nall ()
Date: February 20, 2005 03:20PM

It ran out of gas...no telling what you sucked up! DRIVE it! HARD & LONG!!

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Re: Good News Bad News - I am SO EMBARRESSED!
Posted by: "UNSAFE" ()
Date: February 20, 2005 03:43PM

Chris,
Just for the heck of it you might want to check to see if the engine oil is diluted with fuel.

As in a previous post about parking on a hill causing gas to siphon from the tank into the motor,
it can also happen when transporting.

If the oil is diluted it will cause the motor to run rich and stink/smoke as you state.

Like Matt said, Drive It hard !

But check the oil first !

Good luck

"UNSAFE"

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