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Current Page: 8 of 10
Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Kent Sullivan ()
Date: May 22, 2017 08:02PM

Tim, great job! I bet it will be fine. We definitely took a very conservative "belt and suspenders" approach with mine.

aircooled Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here is my trans sealing.

--snip--

> Here is why I don't think I will have any transfer
> issues. The tape shoes the level of the diff oil
> when full and on flat ground. Of note is that the
> bearing tapers into the diff, so should drain that
> direction.
>
> [i16.photobucket.com]
> /5-speed/P1080183_zps0lf5pzww.jpg
>
> Here is the level transferred to the trans. As
> you can see the level is well below the shaft.
> The seal should stop any oil that does manage to
> get up there. We will see, I will be checking the
> level to see if anything changes (I expect a bit
> to make its way into the bearing cutout area).



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2017 08:03PM by Kent Sullivan.

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: May 22, 2017 08:23PM

oh man, we tried that years ago in the McIntosh V8, some how the oil got sucked out of the trans and filled the diff with similar set up. Blowing gear oil out the breather, Maybe you will have better luck as we were teenagers back in 75 !

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: j3m ()
Date: May 23, 2017 03:54AM

This may be relevant information about a more complete chart listing of FORD WORLD CLASS T5 Transmissions
(see gnvair Dec 21, 2015 12:17PM posting)
gnvair (Lee) posted this link with
[www.merkurtech.com]

WELL, THERE IS A MORE COMPLETE CHART THAN THE ABOVE merkurtech site listing!
It is within an article written by MARK HOULAHAN with information and notes provided by Don Walsh Sr., who was once who was on the Ford team that designed the Ford Toploader 4 speed in 1963 and later with Ford SVO to improve the Borg Warner T-5 in the mid eighties and later after Ford with D&D Performance. Dan Carlson of Steeda Autosports contributed greatly to the information, according to the article's text found in MARCH 2001 MUSTANG MONTHLY Page 76 thru page 84.
**********The MORE COMPLETE CHART can be found on PAGE 80 of MARCH 2001 mustang monthly.

The Chart there follows the same listing order as seen in gnvair's link

Beginning with
Borg-Warner Serial Number
1352 - 114 Factory '85-'86 T Bird 2.3 Turbo 235 TORQUE
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
-236 Factory '94? Must 3.8 265 TORQUE

--------WHERE gnvair's Merkur link ends with 1352 - 236----------------
----------the chart continues in MUSTANG MONTHLY March 2001--


-238 Factory '95-'97 Must 3.8 265 TORQUE
gear ratios 3.35/1.93/1.29/1.00/0.73 and 3.15reverse


-239 Aftermarket '93 Mustang Cobra 310 TORQUE
gear ratios 3.35/1.99/1.33/1.00/0.68 and 3.15reverse


-242 Factory '94 - '95 Must Cobra 310 TORQUE
gear ratios 3.35/1.99/1.33/1.00/0.68 and 3.15reverse


-246 Factory '94-'95 Mustang 5.0 300 TORQUE
gear ratios 3.35/1.99/1.33/1.00/0.68 and 3.15reverse


-249 Motorsport '79-'93 Mustang 5.0 330 TORQUE
gear ratios 2.95/1.94/1.34/1.00/0.63 and 2.76reverse


-251 Aftermarket '79-'93 Mustang 5.0 330 TORQUE
gear ratios 2.95/1.94/1.34/1.00/0.63 and 2.76reverse


-253 Aftermarket '94-'95 Mustang Cobra 5.0 310 TORQUE
gear ratios 3.35/1.99/1.33/1.00/0.68 and 3.15reverse


_________________________________________________________________________________
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
----The MUSTANG MONTHLY march 2001 PAGE 80
It also has MORE INFORMATION than gnvair's merkurtech link chart does.
THE MUSTANG MONTHLY chart Lists:
INPUT SHAFT LENGTH for every one of the T-5 trannies.
INPUT SHAFT PILOT DIAMETER for every one of the T-5 trannies.
It also lists Speed Drive Gear for every one of the T-5 trannies.

There are also several notes applicable to certain T-5 trannies.

There are numerous details within that MUSTANG MONTHLY march 2001 article, there are explanations on how a change to the Ford T-5 came about for 1994 model year.
Basically up until 1994 the factory installed the engine/trans from the TOP.
To continue going in from the TOP, Ford made the clutch housing 17mm deeper and the input shaft bearing retainer was made 17mm longer-------the tranny remained in the same place as 1993 but the engine moved forward that 17mm.
-----the Ford guys realized that installing the engine/trans from the TOP wasn't gonna work so well that they changed the method of installing the engine/trans to the BOTTOM (from beneath the car ). Ford deemed it too late in the pre-production development to change back to the 1993 and earlier bellhousing length and input shaft, so that the engine placement on 1994- is perhaps less than ideal by that 17mm increase.
There are details within that article such as weaknesses of those trannies when subjected to high hp and torque and powershifting ala drag racing. It gives details how certain year T-5 can receive upgrades.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
this additional FORD T-5 gear ratio information/data etc
is listed here because I thought perhaps it may be relevant
based on
gnvair DEC 21, 2015 12:17PM post -AND- gnvair MAY 10, 2017 04:37PM post
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: May 23, 2017 05:12AM

j3m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This may be relevant information about a more
> complete chart listing of FORD WORLD CLASS T5
> Transmissions
> (see gnvair Dec 21, 2015 12:17PM posting)
> gnvair (Lee) posted this link with
> [www.merkurtech.com]
> item038.php
>
> WELL, THERE IS A MORE COMPLETE CHART THAN THE
> ABOVE merkurtech site listing!
> It is within an article written by MARK HOULAHAN
> with information and notes provided by Don Walsh
> Sr., who was once who was on the Ford team that
> designed the Ford Toploader 4 speed in 1963 and
> later with Ford SVO to improve the Borg Warner T-5
> in the mid eighties and later after Ford with D&D
> Performance. Dan Carlson of Steeda Autosports
> contributed greatly to the information, according
> to the article's text found in MARCH 2001 MUSTANG
> MONTHLY Page 76 thru page 84.
> **********The MORE COMPLETE CHART can be found on
> PAGE 80 of MARCH 2001 mustang monthly.
>
> The Chart there follows the same listing order as
> seen in gnvair's link
>
> Beginning with
> Borg-Warner Serial Number
> 1352 - 114 Factory '85-'86 T Bird 2.3
> Turbo 235 TORQUE
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> -236 Factory '94? Must 3.8
> 265 TORQUE
>
> --------WHERE gnvair's Merkur link ends with 1352
> - 236----------------
> ----------the chart continues in MUSTANG MONTHLY
> March 2001--
>
>
> -238 Factory '95-'97 Must 3.8 265
> TORQUE
> gear ratios
> 3.35/1.93/1.29/1.00/0.73 and 3.15reverse
>
>
> -239 Aftermarket '93 Mustang Cobra 310
> TORQUE
> gear ratios
> 3.35/1.99/1.33/1.00/0.68 and 3.15reverse
>
>
> -242 Factory '94 - '95 Must Cobra 310
> TORQUE
> gear ratios
> 3.35/1.99/1.33/1.00/0.68 and 3.15reverse
>
>
> -246 Factory '94-'95 Mustang 5.0
> 300 TORQUE
> gear ratios
> 3.35/1.99/1.33/1.00/0.68 and 3.15reverse
>
>
> -249 Motorsport '79-'93 Mustang 5.0
> 330 TORQUE
> gear ratios
> 2.95/1.94/1.34/1.00/0.63 and 2.76reverse
>
>
> -251 Aftermarket '79-'93 Mustang 5.0
> 330 TORQUE
> gear ratios
> 2.95/1.94/1.34/1.00/0.63 and 2.76reverse
>
>
> -253 Aftermarket '94-'95 Mustang Cobra 5.0
> 310 TORQUE
> gear ratios
> 3.35/1.99/1.33/1.00/0.68 and 3.15reverse
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> _______________________________
> --------------------------------------------------
> -------------------------------
> ----The MUSTANG MONTHLY march 2001 PAGE 80
> It also has MORE INFORMATION than gnvair's
> merkurtech link chart does.
> THE MUSTANG MONTHLY chart Lists:
> INPUT SHAFT LENGTH for every one of the T-5
> trannies.
> INPUT SHAFT PILOT DIAMETER for every one of the
> T-5 trannies.
> It also lists Speed Drive Gear for every one of
> the T-5 trannies.
>
> There are also several notes applicable to certain
> T-5 trannies.
>
> There are numerous details within that MUSTANG
> MONTHLY march 2001 article, there are explanations
> on how a change to the Ford T-5 came about for
> 1994 model year.
> Basically up until 1994 the factory installed the
> engine/trans from the TOP.
> To continue going in from the TOP, Ford made the
> clutch housing 17mm deeper and the input shaft
> bearing retainer was made 17mm longer-------the
> tranny remained in the same place as 1993 but the
> engine moved forward that 17mm.
> -----the Ford guys realized that installing the
> engine/trans from the TOP wasn't gonna work so
> well that they changed the method of installing
> the engine/trans to the BOTTOM (from beneath the
> car ). Ford deemed it too late in the
> pre-production development to change back to the
> 1993 and earlier bellhousing length and input
> shaft, so that the engine placement on 1994- is
> perhaps less than ideal by that 17mm increase.
> There are details within that article such as
> weaknesses of those trannies when subjected to
> high hp and torque and powershifting ala drag
> racing. It gives details how certain year T-5 can
> receive upgrades.
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> -------------------
> this additional FORD T-5 gear ratio
> information/data etc
> is listed here because I thought perhaps it may be
> relevant
> based on
> gnvair DEC 21, 2015 12:17PM post -AND- gnvair
> MAY 10, 2017 04:37PM post
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----------------------------

I am well aware of the different T5 ratios. I had and worked on Mustangs with T5's for almost 25 years.

Lee J
Southern New Jersey near Philly.
1966 Corsa 180/4 speed
1969 Monza convertible 140/4 speed

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Kent Sullivan ()
Date: May 23, 2017 08:08PM

Hi,

The Ford-based T5s use a different number of splines on the main shaft (29 vs. 28, IIRC), so mostly what Ford offered does not apply to us.

j3m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This may be relevant information about a more
> complete chart listing of FORD WORLD CLASS T5
> Transmissions

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Kent Sullivan ()
Date: May 23, 2017 08:17PM

Some more progress on my installation. Dean welded the cover and installed it with screws. We're probably not going to use the panel adhesive because the sheet metal stiffened up nicely just with screws. We'll use some dumdum to seal it when installing "for real".



Also spent some time discussing how to configure the center console (needed to cover the shift tube). I am thinking about scooching the shifter over to the centerline of the car. I'm tall (6' 3") so a little more side room for my right leg might be good, and my arms are long enough to comfortably reach the shifter in that location. Regardless, I will be using an auto transmission block-off plate to cover the hole in the floor.

We also discussed options for the rear seat reconfiguration. Going to mock up a design or two. We're going to explore a bucket seat idea first.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2017 08:17PM by Kent Sullivan.

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: May 24, 2017 04:10AM

Yes, I moved the shifter over a few inches, Much Better!

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: May 24, 2017 04:29AM

Kent Sullivan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi,
>
> The Ford-based T5s use a different number of
> splines on the main shaft (29 vs. 28, IIRC), so
> mostly what Ford offered does not apply to us.
>
>
If you are talking output spline they are 28 spline on Fords.
GM transmissions are 27. Not that it would matter as you are shortening and resplining the mainshaft to fit into a Corvair pinion shaft in the differential.
Other items inside the box are the same or similar.
Original input shafts were different (Ford used 10 spline and GM used 26 spline)
Again, I am familiar with T5's. Had a lot of them over the years.

Lee J
Southern New Jersey near Philly.
1966 Corsa 180/4 speed
1969 Monza convertible 140/4 speed

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Kent Sullivan ()
Date: May 24, 2017 01:16PM

Lee, good point. You're right, since we have had brand-new output shafts made, all we would care about would be the internal parts. That 3.35:1 first gear ratio from a Ford NWC application might be interesting -- kinda splits the different between the stock Corvair 3.11 and the 3.76 that was used on several of the Corvair conversions.

gnvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> GM transmissions are 27. Not that it would matter
> as you are shortening and resplining the mainshaft
> to fit into a Corvair pinion shaft in the
> differential.
> Other items inside the box are the same or
> similar.

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: May 24, 2017 04:23PM

Kent Sullivan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lee, good point. You're right, since we have had
> brand-new output shafts made, all we would care
> about would be the internal parts. That 3.35:1
> first gear ratio from a Ford NWC application might
> be interesting -- kinda splits the different
> between the stock Corvair 3.11 and the 3.76 that
> was used on several of the Corvair conversions.
>
> gnvair Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > GM transmissions are 27. Not that it would
> matter
> > as you are shortening and resplining the
> mainshaft
> > to fit into a Corvair pinion shaft in the
> > differential.
> > Other items inside the box are the same or
> > similar.

Kent,
Coming from a drag racing back ground and having been around 5.0 Mustangs since the early 90's I learned this.....
Those cars loved the 3.35 1st gear and 3.73 rear gears. Bone stock ones would go 1.9 60 foot times. I knew guys who switched to the 2.95 first gear T5 that was sold in the old Ford Motorsport (now Ford Racing)catalog.
That 2.95 would kill the 60 foot times and slow the cars down.
Keep in mind that the average 5.0 Mustang weighed in about 3200lbs and made anywhere between 275 to 300 lb.ft of torque at about 3,000 rpms. Average later model Corvair is probably 2600lbs and makes 160 lb/ft between 2600 and 3600 rpms.
I would think that pretty much any Corvair would benefit from a 3.35 or lower first gear because of the lack of torque.
I personally think GM should have continued the 3.65 1st gear used on the 61-63 models.

Lee J
Southern New Jersey near Philly.
1966 Corsa 180/4 speed
1969 Monza convertible 140/4 speed

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Kent Sullivan ()
Date: May 24, 2017 04:30PM

gnvair Wrote:
> Average later model Corvair is probably 2600lbs and
> makes 160 lb/ft between 2600 and 3600 rpms.
> I would think that pretty much any Corvair would
> benefit from a 3.35 or lower first gear because of
> the lack of torque.
> I personally think GM should have continued the
> 3.65 1st gear used on the 61-63 models.

Yes, agreed. I would not recommend the 2.95 first gear for a stock Corvair. The engine in my car is a whole different animal but it is definitely an experiment to use the 2.95, even in that situation. We shall see!

I am running a 3.55:1 rear end.

--Kent

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: DAVECS1 ()
Date: May 24, 2017 06:17PM

If you ever make another close out panel, send it to me I will tig weld it for free.

1964 Monza Convertible
110 4 speed
Peoria, IL

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: May 25, 2017 05:24AM

Did Liberty do the Mainshafts ?

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: aircooled ()
Date: June 03, 2017 04:13PM

I figured some might be interested in some real world pics of the trans in operation. Here are a couple of driving pics in 5th gear (.72 5th, 3.08 diff, 205/60/14 tires so speed shows a bit high from reality).

The first one is a bit of higher speed highway, the second is loafing on the street (clearly this is not done on hills!). As you can imagine, in this case, having some extra torque is certainly a good idea.

I also provided a link to a YouTube video of me running through the gears. You probably want to zoom to see the tach. I had to move over to the fast lane for a decent 4-shift. Also note the noise you hear in 5th is all wind noise, no motor noise (car has headers, but is well insulated).

https://youtu.be/LlweekDgBmk










Tim
Southern California - Where the stars are on the ground and dirt is in the sky



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/03/2017 04:17PM by aircooled.

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Kent Sullivan ()
Date: June 03, 2017 04:29PM

v8vair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did Liberty do the Mainshafts ?

Hi,

No. American Machine and Gear in Portland, Oregon. They used to do all of the work for CIDCO-1.

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: June 03, 2017 04:40PM

Nice for that Daily Freeway commute! Or long trips..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: viewmaster ()
Date: June 04, 2017 10:38AM

Sorry if im missing something, but i dont get it. You are in 5th, at the end of the video, doing aprox 80mph,and you are spinning 3500rpm??? What did a 5th gear gain you actually?? Or is your tach broken??

-m



Mike
'65 '500' Sedan 110 PG
'65 Monza Sedan turbo'd 110 SU conversion
Fresno, CA

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: June 04, 2017 11:02AM

Mike he was only in 4th..... look at his pic for 85 indicated..





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: viewmaster ()
Date: June 04, 2017 07:12PM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mike he was only in 4th..... look at his pic
> for 85 indicated..


Oh, okay...i thought it had to be something i was missing. Nice job Tim!

-m



Mike
'65 '500' Sedan 110 PG
'65 Monza Sedan turbo'd 110 SU conversion
Fresno, CA

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: June 05, 2017 09:20AM

Amazing work on this. Are others units also being sorted out or have they just gone to the shelf to die? Do you think more of these transmissions will ever be made? I can see it as a kit once all the issues are dealt with. Then again, you have much hours in it at this point. I have been interested in this for a long time. It is great to see that it's possible with major engineering and expertise. I guess the way to do it is to buy one already done!

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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