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Current Page: 5 of 8
Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: aircooled ()
Date: July 12, 2016 06:47PM

Some additional info / updates. I just got my transmission back after having the main shaft replaced. It was starting to make some noise in neutral, so it was probably on it's way out again. Here is a picture of the notorious welded on end of the old, original style main shaft. It's pretty easy to see the issue here.

The transmission is back in the car and of course works better then ever!



I also found a picture of what broke off of the original shaft that was in the transmission:



Tim
Southern California - Where the stars are on the ground and dirt is in the sky

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: aircooled ()
Date: July 12, 2016 06:52PM

Here is a picture showing the updated trans with the new drain plug, which does a very good job of staying out of the way of the clutch lever.

You can also see the clearancing that was required on the end of the case to let the arm clear it cleanly.





I don't think I had any other full pics of the drivetrain, so here are few showing the layout. You can see by the front mounting points how much longer it is then stock.





Tim
Southern California - Where the stars are on the ground and dirt is in the sky

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: aircooled ()
Date: July 12, 2016 06:55PM

I also took a few more pics of my throttle lever adapter which seems to work great:







And here is a clearer shot of the strange bends that were required on the clutch lever to keep the cable in plane:



Tim
Southern California - Where the stars are on the ground and dirt is in the sky

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Emtidave ()
Date: July 13, 2016 04:23AM

I don't know much about this subject so if I ask a stupid question, feel free to keep it to yourselves. Ha!

I see the shifter as an issue with these trannies running out the top of the trans through the cabin to the shifter.
My dumb question now.

Could you turn the trans upside down to rid yourself of the cumbersome shifter linkage running through the vehicle or does that change the shifter pattern to some ungodly reversed and backwards crap? Assuming that you took care of the vents to prevent them from leaking that is.
Dave

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: July 13, 2016 08:22AM

Dave- yes, you can flip the transmission case upside down, and there is no changing of the shifter pattern, and yes, the linkage is much improved by doing it that way. I had, at one time, the only one of those 5 speed transmission cases that was specifically modified to be mounted upside down-
and it was to straighten out the linkage as much as possible. There were some
significant concerns related to making sure that the oil went where it was supposed to go, and didn't go where it wasn't, but those concerns seemed like they could be addressed one way or another.....

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Corvair T5
Posted by: Yankyerstinger ()
Date: August 11, 2016 01:01PM

As part of the resurrected T5 project, I have been researching which fluid to use in the transmissions. First of all, note our American Boxer trans are all converted Non World Class (NWC) T5's. Turns out ALL T5's used DEXRON II initially. It is specified for both the NWC and the World Class transmissions in Shop Manuals and Owner's Manuals, in early S10's for example. Same with Fords. Early GM T5 Transmissions had decals specifying Use Only DEXRON II. ATF is around 10 W.

DEXRON II hasn't been available for some time. Since DEXRON III was backwards compatible, many used that. For the NWC T5, the internet became a place of using various grades of gear oil; 50 W, 70 W and 70-140W in the NWC T5. Over the years, many have used gear oils in T5s, even though the manuals specified ATF.

It seems the gears that ride (rotate) on journals were a culprit, and perhaps needle bearings were as well. It may be that the WC incorporated roller bearings under the gears due to wear problems. It seems to me it might be so.

So. What to use?

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Re: Corvair T5
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 11, 2016 01:08PM

Welcome to the CCF! About time you show up!!


But sadly with only less than 20 built. and I don't even know if they share lube with the diffs....

I'd say ask John Barnes / Kent Sullivan...except, aren't they part of the"Resurrection"?


I was surprised when I found out my Isuzu Troopers 86 & 90 used 10w30 oil in the 5 speed AND Transfer Case!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2016 01:11PM by MattNall.

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: August 11, 2016 04:23PM

I have owned and raced T5's in the many Fox body Mustangs I have owned and worked on. We typically used readily available Dexron 3. Back in the mid 90's we used a lot of Redline synthetic. I have even experimented with the GM Synchromesh which also worked very well. But in the end good fresh Dexron 3 works well. I believe Ford was the last one to use a T5 in the 2004 V6 Mustangs. You could always check to see what they recommended but I would be willing to bet it is a form of Dexron 3.

Lee J
Southern New Jersey near Philly.
1966 Corsa 180/4 speed
1969 Monza convertible 140/4 speed

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Yankyerstinger ()
Date: August 11, 2016 04:42PM

Lee, were those Mustangs early T5s known as either STD or NWC? Or were they later trans? The WC?
Chuck S

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: August 11, 2016 04:53PM

No they were all WC. The 83-84 5.0 Mustangs were the only ones with NWC boxes. I found this article for you with specifications. [www.moderndriveline.com]
I understand the issue with the brass blockers on the NWC. Was you gearbox built with brass blockers?
A lot of guys I have known have substituted GM Synchromesh for the Dexron 2 on the older NWC boxes. You can buy it at FLAPS. Pennzoil makes it. You can also stop by your local GM dealer and see if they have any on the shelf.

Lee J
Southern New Jersey near Philly.
1966 Corsa 180/4 speed
1969 Monza convertible 140/4 speed



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/11/2016 04:54PM by gnvair.

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Yankyerstinger ()
Date: August 11, 2016 06:32PM

In this post, I'll provide a quote from the article on the Moderndriveline site, that Lee provided. In the next one, another from someone else who has been fixing them since they came out, as a GM warranty shop.

One last piece of important information. ALL World Class T-5 use ATF (Dextron III) oil and NOT heavy gear oil or Redline MTL! All NON-World Class T-5 use 50 wt gear oil. (The original Ford/Borg-Warner recommendation back in 1984 was Dextron II. As this is no longer available, we and TREMEC recommend the 50 wt gear oil.) We recommend high quality Synthetic oil as it lasts a long time and over a larger operating temperature. It is important to change the oil in your transmission based on how you use the vehicle. If the vehicle is your daily driver then changing the oil every two to three years is fine. However, if the transmission sees regular track duty and pushed hard, then once or twice a year is in order. When we rebuild transmissions, we can tell when the oil has been changed often as the parts are much cleaner with less over all wear. There is no filter inside the manual transmission only a magnet at the bottom to pick up the metallic particles in the oil, the only metallic parts in a transmission is the gears or bearings. Oil is cheap, transmissions are not!

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Yankyerstinger ()
Date: August 11, 2016 06:37PM

Here is the second quote, about the fluid in a NWC T4. Notice the bottom line fluid recommendations.

World Class or not, they both require auto transmission fluid. I wish we would dispell for good this idea that the non-WC T-5s use gear oil. The transmission manufacturer (Borg Warner -'98, TREMEC/TTC '98+) says to go by the vehicle manufacturer's specs. The vehicle manufacturer (Ford) says to use Dexron/Mercon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxChassis View Post
World Class or not, they both require auto transmission fluid. I wish we would dispell for good this idea that the non-WC T-5s use gear oil. The transmission manufacturer (Borg Warner -'98, TREMEC/TTC '98+) says to go by the vehicle manufacturer's specs. The vehicle manufacturer (Ford) says to use Dexron/Mercon.
FoxChassis is correct!

All Ford T5 transmissions used ATF including the non-World Class units.

Thank you for your detailed documentation and patience in this matter!

There seems to be a huge myth on the Internet about the non-World Class T5s using gear oil and not ATF and I believed it as gospel...


I double checked with the person I respect the most as an authority regarding the T5.
That person is Paul Cangialosi of www.5speeds.com , in South Florida.

It is with his permission that I am posting his response:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul
I think it is "generally held" on internet forums or from people who for the most part, do not know the history or have worked on T5's since 1982. Yes 1982. My company did warranty work for GM in the early 1980's.

All non wc boxs both from FORD and GM took Dextron II. In fact I need to find some early GM NWC cases that came from the factory with orange USE DEXTRON II stickers on them and stick a picture on web to cut out this nonsense. The only NWC transmission that used gear lube was the Jeep unit.

The Jeep units where plagued with burn out issues because of this.

People don't realize that the T5 shaft to gear clearances and pilot shaft sections have fairly tight clearances. They were designed to use the lighter weight oil to get into those tight voids. Prior to the T5 the T50 used ATF as well.

Using gear lube in a NWT5 or WC is a bad thing not an improvement. You have to ask yourself what is the advantage? Some people think the thick oil protects things better, yet fail to realize shifting is effected, cooling and oil flow within the transmission are drastically reduced.

since Dexron-II is no longer manufactured, the best alternative to use is Mobil 1 multi purpose ATF or Royal Purple Synchromax. Both have worked fine for me. We use exclusively only the Royal Purple Synchromax.

Paul Cangialosi
www.5speeds.com Creators of the JT5 5 speed!

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: August 13, 2016 01:28PM

I worked at a GMC truck dealer in the early '80's and yes they called for the Dex II but they later changed it to I believe something like manual transmission fluid. Apparently first gear would lock to the mainshaft while in 5th gear because of lack of lubrication. This happened to one customer and he said that it was quiet thrilling to have your rear wheels lock up at highway speeds. The replacement fluid was still red like ATF and with all of the oil improvements since the '80's you would probably do just fine with a modern ATF.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Mark Pietz ()
Date: August 14, 2016 10:04AM

Interesting topic. I used to drive 70s-80s Volvos when living in Arizona. The 4-speeds were used with and without the Laycock overdrives, which were simply hung on the back end of the 4 speed's case, and shared lubricant. If you didn't have overdrive, 90wt (equivalent to 50 wt engine oil in viscosity) was specified. If it had the overdrive, it ran Ford Type F ATF, because of the lining on the overdrive's "cone". Those 4-speeds survived on ATF in 100+ heat, where its nominal 10wt viscosity probably turned thin as water. Required my rethinking viscosity=lubrication and protection.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2016 10:06AM by Mark Pietz.

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Kent Sullivan ()
Date: August 16, 2016 09:57PM

Hi all. I did some searching on this topic. Apparently some folks favor GM Synchromesh lube. It's offered by several brands (AC-Delco [via Summit], Amsoil, Pennzoil, Valvoline, and perhaps others). I don't know how many actual manufacturers there are vs. rebranding. Does anyone have experience with this product? Summit's listing says "...the recommended lubricant for all Tremec brand manual transmissions..." (Tremec is one of the aftermarket T5 suppliers.)

Vern McIntosh is going to use Redline D4. The blurb on Redline's site specifically mentions the T-5 (among many others).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2016 09:57PM by Kent Sullivan.

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Kent Sullivan ()
Date: August 16, 2016 10:00PM

Here are some hot-off-the-presses photos of an over-the-floor linkage, as designed and fabricated by John Barnes, seen in Scott Anderson's car. John has fabbed a duplicate setup for me and a few other folks.

Attachments:

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 16, 2016 10:03PM

Looks like a positive movement design! No place for slop!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Kent Sullivan ()
Date: August 16, 2016 10:03PM

John made the U-joints (cool!). The plate with the brass bushing that is seen immediately underneath the shift lever came with the original T-5 package. The riser is needed so that the long shift rod clears the back seat cavity rail.

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 16, 2016 10:05PM

That can all be covered and made clean looking!





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Corvair 5 Speed UPDATES!! smileys with beer
Posted by: Kent Sullivan ()
Date: August 16, 2016 10:08PM

Here's a shot of the underside of the shifter plate, showing the L-shaped piece (which comes from a T-5) that is key to flipping the motion of the Corvair shift lever.

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Current Page: 5 of 8


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