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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: September 06, 2015 03:29AM

One thing to remember with any high mileage oil is that it has a small amount of ester to help clean it out and soften seals (not as much as an AutoRx treatment, though), so it will darken some from that.

One of the main areas that need cleaning after 50,000 miles or so, depending on gasoline and oil quality as well as tuning, is the oil control rings and ring groves.

That said, I've notice that when companies buy others and maintain the brands for more shelf space, the step-children don't always get the best. I saw it first hand when Chevron bought Texaco. Delo stayed way up on top, with the Ursa Premium TDX next, then what was their second tier RPM, with the rest of the Texaco products following. Since Shell owns Pennzoil and QS, you get something like that, although Shell seems to be going after top quality in Diesels, while aiming Pennzoil at cars, and QS secondarily---- We don't get Pennzoil or QS here, so I haven't analyzed them in use. Just seems that way from advertising and comments on the famous web.

I did analyze the Texaco Ursa TDX last month that a customer sent in and the results (and bill) came to me by mistake, and it wasn't more than a CF-4 instead of a CI-4. But I suspect the importer of printing his own labels. I doubt that Chevron would make something that bad intentionally.

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: SoloCP ()
Date: September 06, 2015 08:39AM

Richard,
What are your thoughts on Lucas Oil Stabilizer? I have added about 1 quart to my oil changes on the vairs and a Subaru with over 200k. Thinking that most of the vairs sit extended period of times and the Lucas provides extra protection on the start ups. So good or bad with the Lucas

Don
AKA (Polyvairist)
Kansas City
HACOA
Broken Halo Corvair Garage.
61 Lakewood
62 Monza aka (Flicka)
62 Rampside
63 700 Sedan 3 Speed
64 Spyder Coupe (Bill Pierson Car)
64 Monza Convertible,140/4 Speed,Electric Heat,Kelsey Hayes Wheels
64 Spyder Blown, (Dave Bolduc Car)
65 Corsa 3.1 Liter Triple Weber (aka Unsafe)
66 Corvair V8 SuperVair (Created by Archibald Evans)
66 Avenger, Corvair Turbo, Fuel Injected, Air to Water intercool 140. (Michael Mann Car)
67 Monza 110 Auto. Sugar Bear

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: flamingchariots ()
Date: September 06, 2015 09:30AM

I consistently use 10w30 Rotella in my Corvairs, using Wix filters.
I also notice that it darkens quickly (within 2000 miles).
Every time I look inside the pan or valve covers, it seems very clean.
This last oil change I added about a half-pint of Lucas Oil Stabilizer that I had left over.
We'll see if it makes any difference.

Kevin
Medina, OH

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: curt ()
Date: September 07, 2015 06:29AM

I seldom change with 2,000 miles on the oil. Most often less dur to the fact I drive less than 3,000 mles a year.

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: Vincep ()
Date: September 07, 2015 08:00AM

I'm running Amsoil 10w30 z rod.

I plan on changing it once a year; like on my other vehicles.

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: September 07, 2015 04:18PM

I've never used the stabilizer, and until now had not looked it up.

According to their sheets, it is 100% brite stock, like you would use in formulating a thick gear oil (ISO 2200).

They say to use 20% to 60%

20% would thicken a 10W-30 to something like a SAE 250 gear oil. I can't imagine putting anything like that in the oil of a Corvair engine. Sounds like the STP product I put in my 200,000 mile 59 Studebaker when I was crossing the country and it started consuming a quart every 50 miles (back in 64).

Since it also has no additives, whatever you are adding is diluting the existing additive proportions.

I would not use a drop of it.

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: dryenko ()
Date: September 08, 2015 10:57AM

Richard, would you say the same for the benefits of the Deisel fuel additive from Lucas?
The oil stabilizer sounds like the old snake oil trick from the past.

Bob C aka Dryenko
Dobson, NC 27017

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: September 08, 2015 11:04AM

I noticed while looking at the Rotella 15-40 oil it states SM rating. Almost none of the oils on the shelf say SL. Is this still OK in our engines?

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: September 08, 2015 03:27PM

On the Rotella, as I often say, ignore what comes after the CI-4 or CJ-4. You can put whatever current gasoline spec after it. I don't agree with the rule, but that is the way it works.

On the diesel additive, I tried to figure out which one, but they have several. When sulfur was taken out of the diesel, the lubricity was reduced (sulfur is a great lubricant). So the fuel distributors add products to make it better. If you buy a top tier diesel (google it) that is formulated for your climate, you probably don't need an additive. If you buy on price, you should put in an additive.

A good additive adds lubricity, lowers the cloud point and gel point, and helps separate the water so it can be drained.

some of the lucas products I saw claimed diesel and gasoline help and lead replacement. That goes a little too far in my opinion. Lead replacement generally requires MMT. I tried finding their msds, but got a 404 error.

I've had one for a long time, and am testing a bunch of fuel additives from a San Diego company. Our diesel is so bad that no amount of additives can make it good or top tier, but I can improve it and improve mileage 10%.

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: croderique ()
Date: June 03, 2017 03:50PM

Richard, I went to buy oil at the local O'Reilly's and there is a new oil spec, CK-4 on the shelves. Shell's spec sheet says it is formulated for higher temperatures, higher sheer stability and oxidation stability and totally backward compatible. They also talk about a new FA-4 oil which may have "limited backward compatibility".

[rotella.shell.com]

Any comments on this new standard and how it will affect our Corvair engines?
Thanks
Chuck

Buckeye, AZ.
1966 Monza convertible 110 hp 4 speed Aztec Bronze with Bronze interior

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: June 03, 2017 04:45PM

Stirring the pot again. I checked in on 540RAT's blog for the latest oil testing. He shows a great option of "0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car Formula, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, API SN, synthetic = 127,221 psi in testing, at the top of the list."

Always worth reading this guys stuff. He debunks a lot of oil myths and give real testing of oils. Makes it a lot easier to select the best for the car.

540RAT Oil

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: June 03, 2017 05:10PM

One thing that is very neat about the 0w-40 FS, is that the actual viscosity
hot is just a hair above the high limit for a 30 weight oil. The pressure rating of that stuff is absolutely amazing!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car



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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: Vairismo ()
Date: June 03, 2017 05:33PM

I found these:

Recently, Ford Motor Company issued a position statement regarding the use of API CK-4 & FA-4 heavy-duty engine oils in Ford diesel vehicles when API licensing begins December 1, 2016. Ford has developed a new specification, Ford Material Engineering Specification WSS-M2C171-F1, which goes into effect December 1, 2016. Ford will recommend that all diesel engine oils meet this new Ford specification in order to be used in Ford diesel vehicles.
The Shell ROTELLA technology team has been working closely with Ford throughout the API category development process. Shell believes, and its testing demonstrates, that the new Shell ROTELLA CK-4 formulations provide superior wear protection compared to Shell ROTELLA legacy CJ-4 formulations.
Ford has not approved the use of API FA-4 oils in its vehicles due to the low viscosity nature of these fluids. Ford will approve API CK-4 heavy-duty engine oils that meet its new specification. A list of all approved oils will appear on their website. Shell is confident it will gain these approvals and will communicate accordingly. Ford currently approves the use of API CJ-4 licensed oils.
It is important to note that Ford customers may continue to use Shell ROTELLA CJ-4 licensed products as none of the Shell products are API CK-4 licensed until December, and the new Ford specification does not go into effect until December 1, 2016

[fordauthority.com]

I have been wondering about this too since I heard about the new ratings. Hope Richard1 will respond.

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: ken ()
Date: June 03, 2017 07:27PM

Richaqrd , why does AeroShell oil in my airplane look dirty after 2 (two ) hrs . flying time? It has a filter and never goes above 220 degrees . This is true for most A/C that I have flown . It is the best Shell Oil Makes for A/C .

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: June 04, 2017 09:13AM

ken Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Richaqrd , why does AeroShell oil in my airplane
> look dirty after 2 (two ) hrs . flying time? It
> has a filter and never goes above 220 degrees .
> This is true for most A/C that I have flown . It
> is the best Shell Oil Makes for A/C .


Not an expert but wouldn't new oils have much better detergents and suspension capabilities than older oils? The appearance may just be their suspension of particles and other damaging chemicals. They look worse but are actually doing more? Maybe??

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: June 05, 2017 04:39PM

Its been a while (10 years or so) since I did much with a/c oils. At the time people here ditched Shell for Chevron whenever they could, but I never got an answer as to why.

As Bob wrote, they may be using some newer detergents, but I'd also look at fuel consumption to see if it has gone up, indicating a richer mixture.

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: Oil specs
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: June 05, 2017 06:10PM

BobV66Vair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Stirring the pot again. I checked in on 540RAT's
> blog for the latest oil testing. He shows a great
> option of "0W40 Mobil 1 “FS” European Car
> Formula, ACEA A3/B3, A3/B4, API SN, synthetic =
> 127,221 psi in testing, at the top of the list."
>
> Always worth reading this guys stuff. He debunks a
> lot of oil myths and give real testing of oils.
> Makes it a lot easier to select the best for the
> car.
>
> 540RAT Oil

Interesting. A buddy had a new BMW that used the 0W40 oil and he was had to add a quart every 1,000 miles. He said others on the BMW forum were complaining about oil consumption. This was awhile back.

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: June 05, 2017 06:36PM

15/50 syn is factory recommended for my BMW bike, just say'n

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

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Re: Oil specs
Posted by: richard1 ()
Date: June 06, 2017 12:44PM

croderique Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Richard, I went to buy oil at the local O'Reilly's
> and there is a new oil spec, CK-4 on the shelves.
> Shell's spec sheet says it is formulated for
> higher temperatures, higher sheer stability and
> oxidation stability and totally backward
> compatible. They also talk about a new FA-4 oil
> which may have "limited backward compatibility".
>
> [rotella.shell.com]
> =CjwKEAjwvMnJBRCO2NSu-Puc6AUSJAAf-OSUxlpaZHJGEFgNa
> WiT_o0Pnr9jr2Wub91sC6LFt8mymBoC0Krw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.
> ds
>
> Any comments on this new standard and how it will
> affect our Corvair engines?
> Thanks
> Chuck


For now I'm not a CK-4 fan, but it is getting better, especially since Ford said not to use it. Since then various companies have improved it. I expect that it will end up as other categories, where today a CJ-4 really has the advantages of the CI-4 for our engines, even with the lower ZDDP.

Even the SN oils are getting to where they might be recommendable.

But stay away from the FA-4 oils, as we do want the higher HTHS values of the original formulas.

Restoration in Bolivia
Richard's Mini Pickup
Richard's Corvair
Richard's Renault Dauphine

Selection of the Right Motor Oil for the Corvair
Selection of the right transmission oil for the corvair
How to polish and restore stainless and aluminum trim

Options: ReplyQuote
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