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How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: strangecars ()
Date: February 18, 2015 08:52AM

How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans? I have a car buddy with a vw buggy and wants to know what is involved in swapping to a Vair engine. But not making a reverse rotation.

Steve Morton
1961 Rampside, 67 and 2 1964 Monzas

Morton's Classic Garage
Parts and Service
Nampa, Idaho 83686
40+ Corvairs and a semi trailer full
of parts

Mortonsclassicgarage@gmail.com
[www.facebook.com]

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 18, 2015 03:15PM

Just unbolting and sliding it in from the other side using the original amount of gaskets on each axle housing

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: strangecars ()
Date: February 18, 2015 03:20PM

In general, are those trans axles strong enough for a stock 110 ?

Steve Morton
1961 Rampside, 67 and 2 1964 Monzas

Morton's Classic Garage
Parts and Service
Nampa, Idaho 83686
40+ Corvairs and a semi trailer full
of parts

Mortonsclassicgarage@gmail.com
[www.facebook.com]

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: February 18, 2015 03:32PM

For a stock 110 and maybe a 140 yes but not much more hot rod allowed.

It will be running on the coast side of the ring gear and the entire unit backwards.

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: February 18, 2015 03:43PM

Doesn't the flipped ring gear drive on the same face it used before the flip?

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
65 Canadian Monza 4dr 110/PG 40k
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: February 18, 2015 03:48PM

Either way the entire transaxle will be turning backwards...it isn't designed to do that.

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: February 18, 2015 03:51PM

Correct there. Reversing the engine is more reliable.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
65 Canadian Monza 4dr 110/PG 40k
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: February 18, 2015 03:58PM

And really not that hard either.

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: Johnniespeed ()
Date: February 18, 2015 05:26PM

The older VW transaxles used left and right side covers for the differential, the ring gear and carrier will fit on either side of the pinion gear and it is very easy to swap sides. At some point in time, the differential housing was upgraded to using only one side cover, it has always been my understanding, that the ring gear cannot be flipped if the transaxle has only one differential side cover.
I am sure there are VW experts who can verify this and perhaps include the years that will allow the flip and the years that wont allow it.
The older type two ( microbus ) with gear reduction boxes on the axles, came from the factory with the ring gear on the opposite side of the pinion as compared with the type one ( beetle ).

John

1962 Rampside, 4.3 Vortec powered.
The thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.

Sparta Michigan.


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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 18, 2015 05:35PM

You are correct!

As far as the Bus reduction boxes... the trans was still turning correctly.... the 2 gear red. boxes changed rotation

I ran flipped RG in a sandcar with 15.00 Big Brother paddles Medium paddle size for over 25 years... lots of use... only failure was input shaft....

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: ROD ()
Date: February 18, 2015 05:57PM

VW transaxle can be built to hold more than any Corvair you can throw at it.

Rod Tetrault
El Cajon , CA
65 Corsa Yenko Clone / 65 Corsa EO Creampuff Vert
66 Corsa "JIMISH" Mid engine Turbo LS1 currently 2nd fastest Corvair in the USA
Corvair powered Buggy x 3
Enough hidden parts to build a space ship


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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: jbyenko77 ()
Date: February 19, 2015 07:53AM

You can flip swing axle trans not IRS ones.
The rev shift rod is in the way on IRS trans


Jeff Ballard
Camarillo ca

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: ben_w ()
Date: February 19, 2015 08:58AM

jbyenko77 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You can flip swing axle trans not IRS ones.
> The rev shift rod is in the way on IRS trans
>
>
> Jeff Ballard
> Camarillo ca

Not necessarily true....very early IRS boxes (in Europe at least....) had twin side plates like the swing axle, meaning you could flip it. Not many of those boxes about, at least not over here.

Swing axle is easy to do. As said, just unbolt the side plates, flip the diff, bolt back up. Before you do though, make sure you can undo the fill plug on the box. Nothing worse than draining it and not being able to refill it....

I'm running a flipped diff swing axle box in my buggy with a 110 engine. Certainly gets some stick, hard launches etc. Been ok so far.

---------------------------------------------------------
64, 110hp powered Beach Buggy!
---------------------------------------------------------

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: didget69 ()
Date: December 04, 2015 09:55AM

In the effort to clear up any confusion...

ALL U.S. sold Beetles/Things/Karmann Ghias up until ~1972 utilized Dual Side Cover style IRS transaxles that WILL allow the ring gear carrier assy to be flipped from one side to the other, to allow for adaptation of the standard-rotation Corvair engine...

The ~ 1973 up transaxles have a Single Side Cover that DO NOT allow flipping of the ring gear assy.

bnc

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: texasuk ()
Date: December 06, 2015 10:19AM

Could I just ask that if this is what sounds like a simple change compared to reversing the engine rotation, why do people even bother with the engine change?

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: December 06, 2015 02:50PM

It is NOT a simple change, it is a quick and dirty change. Before Ted Trevor of CROWN Manuf designed the reverse rotation camshaft, swapping ring gear side to side was the only way to correct rotation at the rear wheels when using Corvair power. Problem is the gears inside the transmission are running backwards because the Corvair engine is still running backwards. The thrust washers in the gear box are on the opposite side of the thrust because the shaft is being turned backwards. Also the ring gear is being pushed outward from the pinion instead of being pulled into the pinion gear. Spreading the side covers was fairly common because everything is still being turned backwards. The only thing fixed is the rotation of the wheels. NOTE the use of the word 'backwards' often.

A small side issue is also common, the starter for the Corvair in these applications is a modified Corvair starter with an offset bushing installed inside the VW gearbox. The placement of that bushing and the correct position of the offset is very critical, if failed the armature lays on the field coils and drags badly.

With a reverse rotation engine the stock Bosch starter can be used. Also the use of the VW automatic starter is common, both ends of the armature are supported in the starter of the VW automatic trans starter.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC/V8 Registry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/06/2015 02:55PM by steve c goodman.

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: Seth Emerson ()
Date: December 06, 2015 03:47PM

Just for reference, the Ring can be flipped in Hewland Mk 8 Racing box. It was based on the VW IRS transaxle case with two side covers. I did that in my Lola to avoid reversing the Corvair motor.

Seth Emerson

Check my new Performance Corvair Web site: [www.perfvair.com]

Located in lovely San Jose, California

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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: ROD ()
Date: December 06, 2015 05:56PM

Mid engine VW cars with VW swing axle or VW IRS boxes are running on the wrong side of the gear too.

Rod Tetrault
El Cajon , CA
65 Corsa Yenko Clone / 65 Corsa EO Creampuff Vert
66 Corsa "JIMISH" Mid engine Turbo LS1 currently 2nd fastest Corvair in the USA
Corvair powered Buggy x 3
Enough hidden parts to build a space ship


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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: ROD ()
Date: December 06, 2015 05:59PM

BTW Seth that car is so cool , do you still have it ? kind of reminds me of Pennzoil in the 80's

Rod Tetrault
El Cajon , CA
65 Corsa Yenko Clone / 65 Corsa EO Creampuff Vert
66 Corsa "JIMISH" Mid engine Turbo LS1 currently 2nd fastest Corvair in the USA
Corvair powered Buggy x 3
Enough hidden parts to build a space ship


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Re: How hard is it to flip the ring gear in a vw trans?
Posted by: didget69 ()
Date: December 07, 2015 12:00PM

ROD Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mid engine VW cars with VW swing axle or VW IRS
> boxes are running on the wrong side of the gear
> too.

If the R&P is flipped on the VW transaxle in order to run the T1 trans as a mid-engine trans (as in a Porsche 550 Spyder replica, for example), the ring gear should still be running on the proper side of the gear tooth... presuming input shaft is still turning in CW input direction.

bnc

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