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LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: Mike Stillwell ()
Date: March 26, 2014 05:42AM

I'm fighting bad understeer in the autocross car and I need to move weight up front, IE front mount my battery. My car has full sheet metal up front, but is not street driven. I have a Marine Battery Box and plan to build a frame to mount it in the front right corner. My question is how have people configured the ground and the routing of the positive cable? Pics would be great! One thought I had was to run the positive wiring harness lead right to the switch, rather than run it to the back, to come back up to the switch. I know I need to run the heavy gauge wire back for the starter. Another thought I had for the ground was to drill and tap the frame rail, then weld a stud in place. Would a double ground be overkill? Thanks in advance.

Mike
YS-117

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: tboltkc ()
Date: March 26, 2014 06:33AM

On the ground side - I've seen where people have attached it right to the frame. I don't think you'd even need to weld a stud, I think you could bolt right into the frame rail.

I also like one where he ran the cable to the back and attached it like the stock cable and put posts near the original location to facilitate charging/jump starting like a stock car. So no other wiring had to change.

-Travis


'65 Corsa; '63 Convertible; '62 Wagon; '65 4 Door
Heart of America Corvair Owners Assocation (Kansas City, MO)

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: Ed Dowds ()
Date: March 26, 2014 06:57AM

I would run a ground to the transaxle/engine just to be sure of a good ground.

Ed
Hillsborough, NJ
66 500 rear 4.3 V6 Corvair
69 350/350 TH Camaro was RS
30 Model A Ford Streetrod 350/400 TH
88 Celebrity Wagon (Daily Driver)

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: March 26, 2014 07:05AM

10-4 on Ed's comment. If you use the frame for ground (which is fine), you need a high-current connection between the engine and the frame. Also, direct connection from the battery to the fuse panel is a good idea but I suggest a Maxi fuse at the battery end to protect the harness.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: Demon-Xanth ()
Date: March 26, 2014 07:32AM

From what I understand, E30 BMWs are a great source of battery cables since they packed them in the trunk. Just need to get them before scrappers buy them up for the copper.

'61 Monza 900, 3 speed. Roams the streets of soon to be Stafford, Va
Cars need to drive to be alive. One that never leaves the garage may be perfect, but dead.

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: 66cv8 ()
Date: March 26, 2014 08:41AM

Good idea to relocate batt but your issues are elswhere. Try a softer front spring rate it will allow more loading and less slip.

Keep in mind the sway bar adds spring rate. What shocks are you using? Too stiff on compression will add understeer for tight autocross courses. Shocks need to be thought of as spring timing devices. Your car needs to load and unload the front tires quicker at the speeds you are running. After the front is landed the rear is adjustable by your right foot.

You are making a static change with the batt relocation (whis is good), try the dynamic changes I'm sugesting. And then there's the driver. (no flame)

Food for thought.

Joe

66 500 Crown 350/4 on road
66 Corsa Convertible 140/4 rough
69 Monza Convertible 140/4 in progress (original 95/3)
Nu Joisey

" A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS A DANGEROUS THING"

"STUPID is the NEW SMART"

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: March 26, 2014 08:48AM

Yes you can use the body as a ground, but the starters turning current is 58AMPS and the initial surge can be as high as 280AMPS. Steel is not a great conductor.

With the extra cable length you should use a 1 gauge wire size.

Kits are made for the "font engine, rear drive" crowd to mount the battery in the trunk with both positive AND negative cables running from the battery to the starter/engine block.

I've used this kit in a Corvair. Starter spins great.

[www.summitracing.com]

The price of cooper has nearly doubled in the last five years!!

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: Mike Stillwell ()
Date: March 26, 2014 09:01AM

Taking it all in - great advice. Car has fact HD springs cut a loop with Carrera's set on firm. Driver needs lots of improvement and the posi needs to be pulled as well, but the battery has been on my list and it's easier than swapping the rear. Car is very light, anything that won't get me protested is off. Stinger Decklid, no rear seat, heater and radio delete. Plenty of power, but I've incorrectly been trying to drive through the push - not happening at all. With the posi and sticky tires. I can't break the rear loose to help turn the car. Open to advice - so no flames - fire away!

Mike
YS-117

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: Pacerace ()
Date: March 26, 2014 09:06AM

Do you have a rear sway bar?

________________________________________________________

Chandler
Powder Springs, GA.



1965 Corvair Monza 110/4sp Coupe

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: aircooled ()
Date: March 26, 2014 10:25AM

Do you really need the posi? That will create push.

Tim
Southern California - Where the stars are on the ground and dirt is in the sky

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: Mike Stillwell ()
Date: March 26, 2014 10:34AM

No rear bar. Tim - nope Posi needs to come out.

Mike
YS-117



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/26/2014 10:35AM by Mike Stillwell.

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: 66cv8 ()
Date: March 26, 2014 11:30AM

Mike Stillwell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
nope Posi needs to come out.thumbs up
>
> Mike
> YS-117

Joe

66 500 Crown 350/4 on road
66 Corsa Convertible 140/4 rough
69 Monza Convertible 140/4 in progress (original 95/3)
Nu Joisey

" A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS A DANGEROUS THING"

"STUPID is the NEW SMART"

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: Seth Emerson ()
Date: March 26, 2014 11:48AM

After mounting the battery in a marine box on the floor of the trunk, I ground off a clean section on the frame rail, welded on a stud and used it for a ground. Then I jumpered a regular short ground cable from the frame rail to the cylinder head on the engine. The hot lead from the battery goes to the Starter battery terminal, with a 12 gauge wire w/ a ring terminal feeding the harness in the engine compartment, which feeds the rest of the car. I have never had an electrical issue.

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: oldqmguy ()
Date: March 26, 2014 09:48PM

I agree with Seth! Connect it up this way and you should have no problems! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Just remember to install the "short ground cable" in the Engine Compartment or you will have 'lots' of fun!

I have repaired a 'few' 'Vairs over the years when the ONLY ground to the Engine was thru the Clutch Cable! Those are 'interesting' to change!! eye popping smiley

Have fun!! smileys with beer

Dale E. Smiley CPBE
Life Member The Society of Broadcast Engineers
RETIRED Broadcast Engineer
CERTIFIED CORVAIR NUT
CORSA/Circle City Corvairs/Corvair Performance Group
Avon, Indiana
WB9SFF
1967 4-Door Monza PG!

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: Tom Z ()
Date: March 27, 2014 04:45AM

Mike-I've seen more than my 'fair share' of ground-related problems on transit buses and newer GM ECM controlled vehicles; I'd put the rear (engine) ground directly on one of the 2 starter bolts,then add a 12ga ground from EACH head to the rear 'frame' (and one from whatever distrib to frame you're running)..remember tho,the front 'frame' and rear aren't "connected" except for the several thin body/floor panels spot-welded together..rather than drill a hole,I'd weld a 3/4" or 1" bolt to the 'frame',then slide a piece of hose over to prevent an 'ooppss',or pirate an OEM starter cable cover cap (look on FWD cars)

Tom Z,,Rochester NY

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: Mike Stillwell ()
Date: April 02, 2014 08:07AM

Next stupid question - Can you solder a copper wire to a lead battery connector? I have a few salvaged older style connectors that I'd rather use than the newer common replacement "bolt on the wire" battery terminal connectors. The older ones appear to have the wire soldered and crimped in place. I don't do a lot of electrical work, thankfully, so just want to be sure I get a nice reliable connection. Thanks again.

Mike
YS-117

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: April 02, 2014 08:32AM

Mike Stillwell Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Next stupid question - Can you solder a copper
> wire to a lead battery connector?

No. Someone out there might claim they can be don't bother trying it.

OEM connections like that are "cast" or crimped in place in very controlled manufacturing processes. Soldering on your own would take a lot of heat and the lead terminal would flow away as the lead reaches the melting point.

You need terminals that allow mechanical connections like these if you want to build your own. Photo shows a low-end and a high-end solution for replacement termainals.



Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 140 4-speed
65 Corsa 140 4-speed
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 455 Toro V8
65 Monza 110 Convertible
65 Monza 4DR 140 PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T w/5-speed







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2014 08:34AM by azdave.

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: Mike Stillwell ()
Date: April 02, 2014 08:44AM

Perfect Dave - That's exactly what I needed. Thank You.

Mike
YS-117

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: moomba32 ()
Date: December 05, 2014 10:22AM

With the crimp terminal you'll need to get a crimping tool, pricey, try to borrow one. They make a beefier heavy duty version of the cheap connector that may be a good choice.

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Re: LM Front Mount Battery Install Advice needed
Posted by: Fast Eddie ()
Date: December 05, 2014 11:07AM

Dave
Where did you find the copper compression terminal?

Bowie,MD

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