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Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: Ratt643 ()
Date: January 02, 2014 06:33AM

I have use aluminum conical seals (very similar to the copper washer but very soft aluminum) with great success.

1964 Monza Coupe
1965 Corsa 140
1967 Monza Coupe

Maryville, TN
U.S. 129 The"Tail Of The Dragon"

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: January 02, 2014 06:49AM

Paulsgt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>I propose that with age, the double-flare gets flattened out adn doesn't seal as well.

You don't have to propose that idea. I confirmed and explained it already in the thread linked in my last post above.

With repeated over-tightening through the years the softer metal (brass or aluminum) gets displaced enought by the steel flares that at some point the steel nut is no longer pushing the flares together at the intended mating surface. Instead, the nut is trying to compress the outler steel lip of the tube flare into the female fitting. That area was never meant to be a sealing zone. The more you tighten at each service event, the worse it becomes the next time.

You can check this yourself by staining the mating surfaces of the fittings with a Sharpie pen or similar material and then assemble and disassemble the connection and look to see where the actual contact points are located.

That is why small annealed copper sealing washers fix the issue. Making new lines yourself or ordering new lines will not always make the connection "like new" unless you also replace the mating part (brass block or fuel inlet nut).

Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4 A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5



Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: 66cv8 ()
Date: January 02, 2014 07:12AM

IMHO band aid only. Replace line ASAP.

Joe

66 500 Crown 350/4 on road
66 Corsa Convertible 140/4 rough
69 Monza Convertible 140/4 in progress (original 95/3)
Nu Joisey

" A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS A DANGEROUS THING"

"STUPID is the NEW SMART"

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: bgriffith ()
Date: January 02, 2014 07:29AM

X2 on azdave's or ratt643's method. Works.great and it's safe.

Britt Griffith
Corona, CA
---------------
65 110 Coupe

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: strangecars ()
Date: January 02, 2014 09:26AM

I already voiced my opinion. There has been o rings used with some success but I would rather correctly fox the problem by re-flaring or an aluminum or copper washer than trusting an o ring for an unintended mating surface. Leaks for a double flared line are typically caused but improper tightening methods. Always use flair wrenches and hold both the male and female sides.

Steve Morton
1961 Rampside, 67 and 2 1964 Monzas

Morton's Classic Garage
Parts and Service
Nampa, Idaho 83686
40+ Corvairs and a semi trailer full
of parts

Mortonsclassicgarage@gmail.com
[www.facebook.com]

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: jimmyo ()
Date: January 02, 2014 10:04AM

Besides for a temporary fix, I wouldn't use "O" rings on a double flare fitting. They were not designed for a "O" ring. I would worry about them coming loose, or a piece of one clogging the carburetor. I don't see a issue with conical washers, at least they were made for flare fittings. I would just replace any worn fittings with new double flares. I have yet to have any leaks with double flare fittings. New double flare fittings will last years.

Jim O'Connor
45 miles north of The Bronx, N.Y.
1962 Greenbrier 110 4spd
1964 Monza Convertible 110 PG
"Wherever you go....There you are"

<a href="[s1166.photobucket.com]; target="_blank"><img src="[i1166.photobucket.com]; border="0" alt=" photo 045ef0c8-2087-4eac-8a5d-9aa0d575d5e0_zps9946d378.jpg"/></a>
<a href="[s1166.photobucket.com]; target="_blank"><img src="[i1166.photobucket.com]; border="0" alt=" photo e1227532-1d1b-4c27-b9b3-ab7c1e338ee9_zpsoelhfofz.jpg"/></a>

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: NMCarNut ()
Date: January 02, 2014 10:07AM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would imagine any O-ring for a Fuel injection
> component
>
>
> My '79 Eldo with Bosch FI used them...


Yup. But I'd bet your Eldo also used fittings designed to use O rings. As others have stated, there are washers designed for this application, why not do it right and use them?

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 02, 2014 11:14AM

True!


The copper seals are called "SoftSeals" iirc.... industria use is common.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: January 02, 2014 12:08PM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The copper seals are called "SoftSeals" iirc....

Most copper conical sealing washers you find will in a search are too big and intended for AN fittings or some similar HVAC applications.

Years ago I got them from my local NAPA but recently I made my own solution as mentioned in this thread.
[corvaircenter.com]

I might try my local hydraulic hose shop to see what they have although I suspect they will be too big.


Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4 A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5



Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: 66cv8 ()
Date: January 02, 2014 12:16PM

azdave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MattNall Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The copper seals are called "SoftSeals"
> iirc....
>
> Most copper conical sealing washers you find will
> in a search are too big and intended for AN
> fittings AN fittings are 37 degrees not the 45 of std flare. or some similar HVAC applications.
>
> Years ago I got them from my local NAPA but
> recently I made my own solution as mentioned in
> this thread.
> [corvaircenter.com],
> page=2
>
> I might try my local hydraulic hose shop to see
> what they have although I suspect they will be too
> big.
> [i561.photobucket.com]
> Falcon/DSC00928.jpg

Joe

66 500 Crown 350/4 on road
66 Corsa Convertible 140/4 rough
69 Monza Convertible 140/4 in progress (original 95/3)
Nu Joisey

" A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS A DANGEROUS THING"

"STUPID is the NEW SMART"

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: January 02, 2014 12:25PM

66cv8 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> AN fittings are 37 degrees not the 45 of std flare.


For those who wouldn't know that already thank you but...

If you did happen to find some conical copper sealing washers of the correct ID and OD (but had a 37-degree flare) they would still conform nicely to the 45-degree flare as the connection was tightened. Annealed copper is quite soft.

Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4 A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5



Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: 66cv8 ()
Date: January 02, 2014 12:31PM

azdave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> 66cv8 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > AN fittings are 37 degrees not the 45 of std
> flare.
>
>
> For those who wouldn't know that already thank you
> but...
>
> If you did happen to find some conical copper
> sealing washers of the correct ID and OD (but had
> a 37-degree flare) they would still conform nicely
> to the 45-degree flare as the connection was
> tightened. Annealed copper is quite soft.


Agreed. This was a FYI for those who did not know.

Joe

66 500 Crown 350/4 on road
66 Corsa Convertible 140/4 rough
69 Monza Convertible 140/4 in progress (original 95/3)
Nu Joisey

" A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS A DANGEROUS THING"

"STUPID is the NEW SMART"

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: Richard ()
Date: January 02, 2014 01:03PM

>>IMHO band aid only.<<

I agree. That's the kind of shade tree repair that people post here to complain about on the car they just bought. It it gets you home, fine.

I'm not sure what the correct name is. Someone mentioned Grainger, They call them, Flare Gasket, 45 Deg, Copper and they're from a company called Parker. Parker's web site has 8 million connector products, but multiple searches produced nothing until I searched 2GF-10, They call them, LOW PRESSURE GASKET COPPER, FLARE.

NAPA sells them, but they are not on their web site. You may have to ask everyone that works in your NAPA until you find the right guy, but usually they've got them.

Kragen/O'Reilly has them on their web site, but under "Murray® Climate Control - Gasket".

That might be the HVAC reference that AZDave mentioned. It seems like Mopar or someone used a tapered copper gasket on their compressor head, service valve connections.

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 02, 2014 01:11PM

Great info Richard!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: nnsquared ()
Date: January 02, 2014 02:36PM

Thanks for the responses. I am glad this got exposure.

Matt, who condenses this for a factual entry to the FAQ or Tech Guide? Lots of opinions, but facts are what we need in the record book.

Regards,
Kerwin,
Newtown Square, PA 19073

65 Monza 110 PG, Stinger wannabe SW 001;
has moved on to club member. Photo will stay.

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 02, 2014 03:31PM

I do / did!! ggg

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: azdave ()
Date: January 03, 2014 08:41AM

Thanks Richard! I was searching for "conical" copper washers instead of "flare" copper washers. Thanks for searching it out.

I stopped at the local Parker Hose store and got some samples to make a reference photo and the correct part numbers. Note that the 2GF-3 seals will work on 1/4" lines in case 2GF-4 seals cannot be found.

I will also post this photo in several other old related fuel leak threads so that the info is out there to find easily in several locations.

Parker part numbers
2GF-4 is required for 1/4" lines (lines to carbs).
2GF-5 is required for 5/16" lines (line to fuel pump).

Dave W. / Gilbert Arizona
65 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4
66 Corsa 140/4 w/factory A/C
66 Corsa 455 Toro V8
65 Monza Convertible 110/4
66 Monza Convertible 140/4 A/C
65 Monza 4DR 140/PG w/factory A/C
65 Monza 4DR EJ20T/5



Attachments:
Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: Richard ()
Date: January 03, 2014 09:27AM

Great work Dave. That picture says it all. I'm sure the guys that were singing the praise for the rubber O-rings will see the benefits of the much improved and permanent repair.
Thanks

Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: Paulsgt ()
Date: January 03, 2014 11:14AM

Very nice Dave. Thanks!

Paul Sergeant
CORSA Central Division Director / CORSA Treasurer
Lee's Summit, MO
CORSA since 1975
Member – HACOA, Corvair Minnesota, CORSA, Little Indians, POCI


Re: o rings for steel gas lines to carbs?
Posted by: 66cv8 ()
Date: January 04, 2014 05:24AM

They look easy to make. Buy some copper tube flare it and cut em off, no brainer.

Joe

66 500 Crown 350/4 on road
66 Corsa Convertible 140/4 rough
69 Monza Convertible 140/4 in progress (original 95/3)
Nu Joisey

" A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS A DANGEROUS THING"

"STUPID is the NEW SMART"

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