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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 24, 2013 08:39PM

Correct!

And unless you get Airborn you will never fully extend the shock...

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: DreamRyder1963 ()
Date: April 24, 2013 08:44PM

Well that solves one problem cool smiley. Sounds like progress spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Joseph Bates
1963 Corvair 700 sedan
1964 Corvair Monza Rat
2012 Mazda3 i Sport sedan
Corryton, TN
[www.dracoautodesigns.com]

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: spydergear ()
Date: April 24, 2013 09:32PM

You ought to search for NOS Delco shocks because there is a true design difference after 1962 in that these are harder to open than to close. This means that compression is easy but extension is slower to limit tucking.

I believe both Koni and Bilstein will custom valve a shock for you. Perhaps you could supply them with a shock to copy the valving from. I wonder if the extended length could be specified also. Just do a Google search. Maybe buy a bunch and sell them to Corvair venders...

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: ensys ()
Date: April 24, 2013 10:31PM

With all due respect Mr.Naderrater, I would have to see a true reproduction of the original article to believe that the late and respected Mr.Fitch actually made those statements, in so much as they are, as presented here, exactly opposite of actual chassis dynamics.

Mr.Nall, I know I'll regret the effort, but when it comes to engineering, there is no formula for "difference of opinion". Or to simplify, the statement that "two plus two equals five" is not a "difference of opinion".

As to the reversed wheels and VWs, the practice was "proven" to break spindles and ruin bearings (see: "lengthened torque arm"). There is a sound reason for the term "correct offset" that has nothing to do with a "opinion"

Keep 'em flying...

S.J.Szabo

From America's
Automobile Heartland

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 24, 2013 10:39PM

OK How about this... You win!! Hope to meet you sometime!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: Naderater ()
Date: April 24, 2013 11:04PM

Here is scan of the Sprint test from pg 78 of "CORVAIR PERFORMANCE PORTFOLIO". I also doubted the stiffer rear and eliminated front ant-sway bar. I tried it because I didn't have to install an anti-sway bar or find the correct '64 springs. The rear doesn't tuck, except under heavy breaking in a turn, and the oversteer is predictable and controllable. But, I'm only running stock wheels and 185/80 Hankooks. Out of interest I've bought an LM front end, with the heavier than EM anti-sway bar to match the stiffer rear springs. Change is slow as this is my daily driver. We are all in this for the fun of it arn't we?

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: caroseiii ()
Date: April 25, 2013 06:32AM

It kind of begs the question whether the author of the article did not get the facts backward. Who, except GM/Chevrolet, removed the front swaybar, used heavier springs and special shock absorbers combined with a tire pressure differential to improve handling?
Crawford

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: ensys ()
Date: April 25, 2013 08:36PM

Reading that article is like waking in Bizzaro Land... up is down and front is rear, for indeed, everything is exactly opposite of truth. If one followed this, they might as well get used to driving backwards. Perhaps the author was a secret scion of Nader himself, making his contribution to proving R.N. the harbinger of truth with an influx of Corvair crashes. Truly amazing.

Mr.Nall: it is not a contest; it is about trying to help fellow Corvair drivers, many of whom may be less well versed in principles of chassis dynamics, stay out of trouble.

I'll buy you a beer at Kalamazoo. With any luck, I'll be the guy in the 356.

My best regards,

Keep 'em flying...

S.J.Szabo

From America's
Automobile Heartland

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 25, 2013 09:35PM

SJ, never a contest here.... I was just letting you have the last word. As a Mod... I know when to stop!

No Kazoo for me... I hate humidity...did Cedar Rapids, and several years before that Pheasant Run / Blackhawk Farms... no more!


You'll have fun! Tell us about your 356.. all we know is that you were working on a GB... and I've always wanted to see an FC in an AX that could keep the wheels on the ground!


Why I did the FGB... at Tahoe people were laughing so hard at the ones that ran...it seemed like it would be fun... and it was...

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: DreamRyder1963 ()
Date: May 08, 2013 07:58PM

Tonight I was able to drive my car since I did the battery relocation. It drive great! It corner flatter and was more predictable. This was a very worth while upgrade.

Joseph Bates
1963 Corvair 700 sedan
1964 Corvair Monza Rat
2012 Mazda3 i Sport sedan
Corryton, TN
[www.dracoautodesigns.com]

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 08, 2013 08:02PM

That's great when a "mod" gives you a good feeling!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: DreamRyder1963 ()
Date: May 08, 2013 08:05PM

I am so happy with it I think I will drive the car for the rest of the week before I take it back apart to add the disc brakes spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Joseph Bates
1963 Corvair 700 sedan
1964 Corvair Monza Rat
2012 Mazda3 i Sport sedan
Corryton, TN
[www.dracoautodesigns.com]

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: hughest ()
Date: May 09, 2013 11:49AM

I am thinking about doing the '64 rear suspension swap into my '63. I pulled the following froma '64: control arms, transverse spring, right and left coil springs, and the differential. Is the '64 crossmember unique to that year as well?

Tom in Baltimore
My YouTube Channel

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: keitho64 ()
Date: May 09, 2013 06:08PM

Joseph,

Glad to hear you are enjoying the drive. Did you take pictures of how you mounted the battery and where you placed it? I honeslty did not think about doing that to my 64 and now you got me thinking!

I have the 64 but the biggest improvement in performance on my car (other than driving lessons) occured when I went to 15x7 rims and 205/60-15 tires. I am impressed with how it handles with the different tires. I still need to rebuild my front suspension but that will come in time.

Keith
64 Monza Convert 110 4-speed
00 911 C2
"Horizontally Opposed"
05 GTO 6-speed (Gotta have a V8)
Chicago Burbs; the Anti-Dragon... 11 turns in 318 miles

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Date: May 09, 2013 07:17PM

hughest Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am thinking about doing the '64 rear suspension
> swap into my '63. I pulled the following froma
> '64: control arms, transverse spring, right and
> left coil springs, and the differential. Is the
> '64 crossmember unique to that year as well?
------------------------------------------------------
I can't find the definitive answer for that, as I am also planning a 1964 rear suspension swap for my 1962 Monza Wagon.
But I am 90% sure that there is NO difference in the cross member that the swing arms attach to.

I'd imagine the shock absorbers have a different part number as well, but I think you've got the list of parts down. I'm sure you got all the unique hardware to the spring/mount as well.


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CCF admin ~
CORSA +Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 Corsa 140 Coupe ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Convertible Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza Spyder Convertible ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 CoupeEvening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 09, 2013 07:20PM

Same shocks.. transverse spring mounts on the diff. and lower arms.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: May 09, 2013 07:43PM

The front trans mounts are different for 64 but the suspension K member is the same.

Clicked 'send' too quick. EDIT to say that many 61-3 have been changed to 64 parts and used the 61-63 mounts with no difficulty.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC/V8 Registry



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2013 07:44PM by steve c goodman.

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: DreamRyder1963 ()
Date: May 09, 2013 08:13PM

Here is some pics of it installed in the trunk. The negative side is grounded to the floor of the trunk while the postive travels to the starter. The wire is protected by a pvc tube that I painted flat black and mounted to the floor. The battery is held down to a battery tray that I bolted to the floor. I didn't feel that a battery box was nessecary since the Optima can not be spilled or leak.

Joseph Bates
1963 Corvair 700 sedan
1964 Corvair Monza Rat
2012 Mazda3 i Sport sedan
Corryton, TN
[www.dracoautodesigns.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2013 08:15PM by DreamRyder1963.

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: keitho64 ()
Date: May 09, 2013 09:21PM

That is a great setup, I know what I am doing next! I like where you placed it, low and centered.

Keith
64 Monza Convert 110 4-speed
00 911 C2
"Horizontally Opposed"
05 GTO 6-speed (Gotta have a V8)
Chicago Burbs; the Anti-Dragon... 11 turns in 318 miles

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Re: Improving EM Handling
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: May 09, 2013 09:29PM

keitho64 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That is a great setup, I know what I am doing
> next! I like where you placed it, low and
> centered.
=====================================================

you actually want it to the right.. the light corner on a Vair...

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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