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installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: dansk ()
Date: February 05, 2013 02:06PM

Yes, did the search Matt. Still confusing as to what to do.
1. Is it easier just to purchase a kit from Vendor?
2. Is the distribution block necessary?
3. What needs to be done under dash as far as T's and fittings?
3. Can any exsisting line in trunk be used.
4. Can it be pieced out economically? (Don't care if lines come out of the MC on the left or right)

I want to get everything ready for a few hrs work and not have to scrounge around looking for fittings, bending tubing etc. if possible. Not that I mind bending tubing, but just want to have all ready to go.

Dann

Dann
So. Calif.
Granada Hills
Daily drivers
1996 Ford E350 Powerstroke diesel
2017 Volkwagen Jetta
Fun cars
1965 Corsa Turbo (currently undergoing total restoration)
1994 Dodge Viper RT10
1996 Dodge Viper GTS
1998 Dodge Viper GT2

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: alexanderwoelfel ()
Date: February 05, 2013 02:26PM

Dann,

I recently converted my 62 to a dual master setup and I got my master from a local autoparts store. I got one for a 67 camero with all around manual drum brakes. It bolts up the same as the factory setup and I paid somewhere between $15 to $20 for it. I did not use a distribution block and as far as the T fittings go I had a spare one so I was able to drill a new hole above the existing one in the fire wall and run another line it to. This way I kept the existing lines inside the car and seperate them into front and rear. I did this so I would not have to bend them too much from their current position. I put caps in the outlets in the T fittings where the lines had been. So All I had to do as far as new plumbing was run two new lines form the master to the existing T fitting as well as the newly added T fitting.

The kits from the venders would probably save some time but I was able to do all of this in less than 2 hours including bending the lines and picking up the parts. The whole setup cost be less than $50.

I have included some photos to show what I did for my car. The red arrow shows the new line and the black arrow shows where I drilled the hole for the additonal T Fitting. If I had to do it again I would use a little longer brake Line. I used 12 inch and would have been better to use a 18inch.

Best of Luck
-Alex

1962 Monza Convertible



Assistant Editor
Los Angeles, California

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: glivorsi ()
Date: February 05, 2013 02:28PM

1. I purchased a kit from a vendor. I think I got mine from Underground. It had all the fittings and instructions. I think the Clarks kit is basically the same. Underground had originally supplied me with one that had lines coming out the passenger side of the cylinder and it interfered with my Opti-Kleen bottle. I exchanged it for an MC with driver side lines.

2. I'm not sure what you mean by the distribution block. There is a differential pressure switch that illuminates a brake light on later vairs. You don't need that for the dual master setup. Mine looks similar to stock except there is an extra brake line going through the firewall.

3. You have to unhook one line under the dash and make a 90° bend in it then screw a plug in. It wasn't too bad. It works best if you have a mandrel to bend the line. I was able to borrow one.

3. You will reuse your original brake line and add another one. You do have to drill a hole in your firewall so technically it's not totally reversible. For me, the hardest part was bleeding the whole system when I was done.

4. Don't know about piecing it being cheaper. I suppose you could if you have a tubing bender. With the kit you are paying extra for the custom bent lines and the instructions.

Greg in Wildwood, MO (part of the St. Louis urban sprawl)

1965 Monza Vert 110PG, Crocus Yellow with black interior and top

2014 Honda Accord V6 (DD)
2017 Honda Pilot (wifemobile)
2012 Chevy Sonic 1.8L (kid's car)
1997 Honda CBR1100XX
2006 Mazdaspeed 6 (no longer own)

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: SSpeed66 ()
Date: February 05, 2013 02:30PM

I was going to custom build my dual system, but after looking at the dual system on my 67 parts car I'll most definitely use all those parts, all engineered by people I trust !thumbs up
And it all bolted up to my CPP Products master cylinder with only very minor modswinking smiley

Al Macaulay - Okanagan Valley, BC
Western Canada Corsa

Link to my Corsa build- [corvaircenter.com]
Link to my Cobra boat Project- [www.sidewinder-boats.com]

66 Corsa 140 HT - 402BBC/Turbo 425, 66 CDN Corsa 'Vert 140, 79 Cobra 16SS/Merc 1500, 69 Triumph Trident Chopper, 67 BSA Lightning Custom
Cobra Custom Metal Design/ God Bless Canada

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: February 05, 2013 02:31PM

I've only done earlies but to answer some of your questions,
1. Never have purchased a kit. Just bought master #46986 and some bulk tubing and flare unions.
2. I've never used a distribution block
3. Under the dash the single line from the master feeds a tee with one line running into the tunnel and the other to a tee at the left front wheel well. I pop another hole beside the original line through the trunk firewall. Remove the tee in the passenger compartment and use 2 unions. Front line off the master goes to the union feeding the tunnel line. Rear line from the master unions to the line to the front tee.
4. Did not reuse line in the trunk, but then I was replacing ALL steel lines and ALL hoses.
5. You could I suppose prebend/make some of your lines, but it's going to take what, about a half hour to make them when your doing the swap. The line above the gas tank feeding the right front wheel on a early is notorious for being crusty.

'29 Ford Model A Tudor
'61 700 Lakewood 110 4 speed
'69 Monza Convert. 140 Auto.
'70 Dodge Challenger R/T 440 4 speed

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: ihscomputers ()
Date: February 05, 2013 02:32PM

My Two Cents:

1. Yes, if you are keeping the drums at front and rear, then IMO, it's easier to simply purchase the Dual Master Kit from a vendor because it will contain everything that you need including instructions. (I have only ever installed the kit from Clarks)

2. No, if you keep all drums.

3-5. Follow the instructions in the kit.

Now if you're changing to discs, especially all the way around then you should consider a MC designed for discs and then you might want a distro block.

If you are changing to disc, then I strongly recommend doing more research on this forum and review the past topics for more detailed info.

Dean F. Gemberling
Columbus, Georgia
Heart of Georgia Corvair Club Webmaster
Springfest Webmaster

1963 Rampside w/305 V8 - Built by Ken Arnold in 1998

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: dansk ()
Date: February 05, 2013 02:41PM

Gonna stay with original brakes. Helping out an old friend from the old neighborhood (female). Two of the wheel cylinders are leaking, so I will replace all 4. 66 Monza 140 with 16,000 original miles ha ha (so she was told by PO). Car looks to be in good shape. Only bondo I could find was below drivers side front window. She's on a budget (who isn't) so I think I'll go ahead and piece together, bend any lines and just get her done. Thanks for the MC part number, it will be a good start. And thanks for all the inputs,
Dann

Dann
So. Calif.
Granada Hills
Daily drivers
1996 Ford E350 Powerstroke diesel
2017 Volkwagen Jetta
Fun cars
1965 Corsa Turbo (currently undergoing total restoration)
1994 Dodge Viper RT10
1996 Dodge Viper GTS
1998 Dodge Viper GT2

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: jrdriver8 ()
Date: February 05, 2013 03:39PM

I used CLarks kit and had no problem with the install at all. One small hole drilled for the brake lines. Nice and easy. I suggest that you use a gromet for the line to go through the trunk to alleviate chaffing. Not all the kits are the same, mine needed to drill the hole and snake the line through it. Whichever one you go with, this is a great safety upgrade.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2013 03:40PM by jrdriver8.

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: February 05, 2013 04:21PM

I mounted the lines like Alex. I've posted pics on this sometime back.

see [corvaircenter.com]
scroll down about halfway for my pic.

My first kit was from Clarks. The Clark's extra line to the rear is routed in a weird (to me) place and won't work with A/C cars (which they state). Why? Because on an A/C car the factory windshield washer reservoir is exactly were Clark's wants you to route the extra brake line, not to mention its hanging out where it can get wacked by stuff in the trunk. Just not well thought out. I rebent the Clark's line to go behind the dual master cylinder to the location Alex pictured. Protects the line from items in the trunk. A plus is I DID NOT HAVE TO BEND THE REAR MAIN LINE UNDER THE DASH. Per the Clark's kit you DO have to bend that long line and if you kink that line it is a lot of work (and expense) to replace it.

BTW – my car has A/C and the routing I described worked fine.

Nothing against Clark's, but they need to rethink/redo the brake line plumbing on their kit to make it better.

Also - Lon's dual master cylinder has the fittings on the passenger side, a nice touch, but I could not determine what mastercylinder he used. I don't want to be forced into going to Lon for a replacement in the future. The Clark's kit uses the 1967-69 Corvair dual master cylinder - available from most FLAPS. The FLAPS did at one time carry a high priced name brand dual master cylinder and a cheapy brand "X" unit. Clark's shipped me the high quality version. So no complaints on the Clark's price. If you want to go cheap on brakes - well good luck.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2013 04:30PM by 66vairman.

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: dansk ()
Date: February 05, 2013 04:37PM

Some nice pics and instructions guys. I assume I can use the existing block under the dash and will have to get another one to complete the swap. Where can I get the brass blocks from?
Thanks, Dann

Dann
So. Calif.
Granada Hills
Daily drivers
1996 Ford E350 Powerstroke diesel
2017 Volkwagen Jetta
Fun cars
1965 Corsa Turbo (currently undergoing total restoration)
1994 Dodge Viper RT10
1996 Dodge Viper GTS
1998 Dodge Viper GT2

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: February 05, 2013 05:27PM

I don't use the brass tee blocks. I use flare unions as stated. They join two flare fittings of the same size together. They're also used when joining premade sections of brake line together for long runs. Available where ever premade brake lines are sold.

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: jimmyo ()
Date: February 05, 2013 07:28PM

I went the flaps route on my 62 Greenbrier. The block question was a debate. I just looked at the treads and It's wasn't pretty. I started out with changing the front shoes and ended up changing everything, wheel cylinders, dual MC, all the lines and shoes. I ended up with a defective MC that made me nuts. I didn't do the block. The problems taught me tons and I also brought a flaring tool and learned how to make the lines. Mine turned into a odyssey because every part I touched needed replacement and the defective part.
dualMCtread
mccorvair

Jim O'Connor
45 miles north of The Bronx, N.Y.
1962 Greenbrier 110 4spd
1964 Monza Convertible 110 PG
"Wherever you go....There you are"

<a href="[s1166.photobucket.com]; target="_blank"><img src="[i1166.photobucket.com]; border="0" alt=" photo 045ef0c8-2087-4eac-8a5d-9aa0d575d5e0_zps9946d378.jpg"/></a>
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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: Ed Dowds ()
Date: February 05, 2013 07:54PM

I believe the master with the lines on the passenger side is from an AMC car. It was only used for a few years and is getting more difficult to find.

Ed
Hamilton, NJ
66 500 rear 4.3 V6 Corvair
69 350/350 TH Camaro was RS
30 Model A Ford Streetrod 350/400 TH
88 Celebrity Wagon (Daily Driver)

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: Dan ()
Date: February 05, 2013 08:34PM

Dann,

Check out this thread if you get a chance. It't about disc brake and dual master cylinder installation. Maybe it will help.

Good luck!

[corvaircenter.com]

Dan
Chandler, AZ
1966 Corsa Turbo Convertible
[corvaircenter.com]

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: 52bagman ()
Date: February 06, 2013 05:46AM

I haven't used a vendor kit but have done several change overs. A couple were done bending new lines and a couple using factory lines and brake warning blocks. The best and easiest is to use the factory lines and block. You can have all the lines on the master cylinder and when mounted to the firewall the extra lines positions itself to be marked for drilling through the fire wall. Hmmm looked and can't find pic of the do it yourself bent lines.

Sam C. Saunders,Pt. Pleasant WV
68 500 cp 95 pg ash gold
66 Monza cp 110 4spd black
68 500 cp 95 3spd blue "DAIRY QUEEN CAR"

<a href="[s930.photobucket.com]; target="_blank"><img src="[i930.photobucket.com]; border="0" alt="1 link"></a><a href="[s930.photobucket.com]; target="_blank"><img src="[i930.photobucket.com]; border="0" alt="2 link"></a><a href="[s930.photobucket.com]; target="_blank"><img src="[i930.photobucket.com]; border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: February 06, 2013 08:02AM

bagman - The first pic is the Clark's lines. You can see the rear line (off the front of the dual master cylinder) goes through the trunk bulkhead in an awkward place that is also were the windshield washer bracket goes on A/C cars.

The second pic shows the rear Clark's line re-bent to fit behind the master cylinder and close to the original line at the trunk bulkhead. Not pretty, but functional. In the future I'll make my own lines.

The third pic is a side view showing the line BEHIND the master cylinder away from possible moving items in the trunk.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2013 08:02AM by 66vairman.

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: bought1 ()
Date: February 06, 2013 08:39AM

52bagman - what is the red plastic cap covering in the pic of yoiur dual set up. I ask because I have a dual MC with a brass block like yours sitting in my parts pile. It has a wire coming out where you have the red cap. Forgive the silly question, but nothing asked nothing learned!

Dave

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 06, 2013 08:41AM

Dave.. brake Hydraulic pressure failure switch.... illuminates the light in the dash on '67's and newer.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: February 06, 2013 08:48AM

that red cap is covers a connector to the "BRAKE WARNING LAMP". That block is often confused as being a pressure regulator, but it is simply a switch. If one or the other circuit drops in pressure because of a leak in one circuit the higher pressure on the good side (while applying the brakes) pushes a piston/ball to one side allowing the switch to close and light the brake warning lamp.

The switch block DOES NOT ALLOW brake fluid to move from one circuit to the other. It has a barrier seal that just allows the switch piston/ball to move.

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Re: installing dual master cylinder questions
Posted by: 52bagman ()
Date: February 06, 2013 10:01AM

The master cylinder in the pics was put on a 66 sedan witch doesn't have the warning light in the dash. The customer didn't want to go through the trouble of doing the dash so I put a red rubber cap I had laying around to dress things up. I was waiting to see what was going to be said about the cap.

Sam C. Saunders,Pt. Pleasant WV
68 500 cp 95 pg ash gold
66 Monza cp 110 4spd black
68 500 cp 95 3spd blue "DAIRY QUEEN CAR"

<a href="[s930.photobucket.com]; target="_blank"><img src="[i930.photobucket.com]; border="0" alt="1 link"></a><a href="[s930.photobucket.com]; target="_blank"><img src="[i930.photobucket.com]; border="0" alt="2 link"></a><a href="[s930.photobucket.com]; target="_blank"><img src="[i930.photobucket.com]; border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

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