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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: Bob Helt ()
Date: February 22, 2015 11:13AM

66vairman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Thanks for the reply Bob. I was basing my question
> on your article in which you did say 24BTC for the
> A/C, PG, 110 with 95 heads seems excessive even
> though a 24 degree timing tab was installed and
> other Chevrolet documents specify 24BTC for that
> engine.
>
> The 1966 A/C, PG, 110 with 95 heads drivetrain is
> rare considering how few Corvairs were sold with
> A/C. Has anyone ever had a car like this and what
> timing was found to work well?


Bill Herschkowitz (Bill, sorry if I spelled your name wrong) in Brooklyn, NY has one and as I remember he runs at about 14 deg. Someone else has one here too (here being CCF) but I don't remember just who. Maybe he will speak up.

Also, Tom (I hope that is correct) You are correct in that this is (IMO) not a SM error per se but some kind of design or testing error. So it should be noted that there is some doubt about what was really intended. I'll put that in the list too.

Thanks to everybody who commented on this.
Bob Helt

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: February 22, 2015 05:34PM

Hi Bob, OK it seems the 20-30 ft lbs in the 61 manual for the same thing is correct. That is about the standard for 3/8 16. In my younger days I probably put a 1/2 rachet on them and gave them a good pull. So I think 20-30 is right and is the same as for the exhaust manifold clamps. As for the skid plate, I believe that 15-20 ft lbs is for the single bolt on the bottom that screws into the crank case.

Usually I understand your writing quite well, but I am little confused by "Yes they mean the rear motor mount end" If you mean the two bolts on the motor mount, they are not 3/8 16.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: corventure Dave ()
Date: February 23, 2015 12:53PM

My Snoop-Off $12,947 torque wrench has two settings... one grunt or Two!

grinning smileygrinning smiley
Corventure Dave

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: Bob Helt ()
Date: February 23, 2015 02:15PM

Usually I understand your writing quite well, but I am little confused by "Yes they mean the rear motor mount end" If you mean the two bolts on the motor mount, they are not 3/8 16.

J.O.
You've got a point there, J.O.

It must just be another error.
Bob Helt

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: Bob Helt ()
Date: February 24, 2015 06:56AM

I have updated the errors list and will be sending it to Matt for posting today.
Bob Helt

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: February 24, 2015 07:59AM

Thanks Bob for you contribution.

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: Ed Dowds ()
Date: February 24, 2015 02:50PM

There is an error on both the '65 and '66 dash wiring diagrams.
The body side is correct for both 500/Monzas and Corsas but the dash side is only correct for Corsas.
The dash side for 500/Monzas shows the incorrect wire positions in the connector for the 20 Gray wire for the dash lights and the 20 Light green ('66) 20 Black/Light Green stripe ('65) wire for the high beam indicator.
Use the body side connector to find the correct positions for those two wires.

Ed
Hamilton, NJ
66 500 rear 4.3 V6 Corvair
69 350/350 TH Camaro was RS
30 Model A Ford Streetrod 350/400 TH
88 Celebrity Wagon (Daily Driver)

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: Bob Helt ()
Date: February 25, 2015 08:07AM

Thanks, ED
Bob Helt

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: gerg ()
Date: February 21, 2016 09:46AM

Lord, I just went to 40 on one of them and I KNEW it didn't feel right!!!

Thanks again to Mr. Heat and the CCF!!!!!!

gerg
Monroe, LA


1965 500 Coupe, 140hp / PG, Brown EFI - work in progress
1962 Rampside, 110Hp, factory 4 speed & 3.89 posi


Current cars and other fun stuff -> [gregblakeney.smugmug.com]

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: February 21, 2016 10:16AM

gerg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Lord, I just went to 40 on one of them and I KNEW
> it didn't feel right!!!
>
> Thanks again to Mr. Heat and the CCF!!!!!!


What were you tightening, Gerg? (And who is "MR. HEAT"? (I know, "Helt" LOL)

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: 67 airvair ()
Date: February 21, 2016 11:55AM

On the subject of engine timing, I used to run my '67 convertible w/110, automatic, and a/c at 24 degrees advance all the time, while I still could get Sunoco 260 gas. And the car rarely if ever knocked, yet it would blow the doors off any other Corvair 110/glide non-a/c car. So yes, it's possible to run said combo with that much advance.

-Mark

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: Bob Helt ()
Date: February 21, 2016 02:22PM

67 airvair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On the subject of engine timing, I used to run my
> '67 convertible w/110, automatic, and a/c at 24
> degrees advance all the time, while I still could
> get Sunoco 260 gas. And the car rarely if ever
> knocked, yet it would blow the doors off any other
> Corvair 110/glide non-a/c car. So yes, it's
> possible to run said combo with that much
> advance.
>
> -Mark

Thanks, Mark,
I guess with sufficient anti-knock fuel it could be done. And I'm glad that it worked out so well for you. but I still have some lingering engineering doubts about this setup. Remember that this engine used the SAME distributor as the other 110 engines.

With a "110 hp engine" using 95 hp heads, CR will be down and also will be the octane requirements. So that a plus. But both PG and A/C add to the engine load and increased operating temperature. That would require a higher octane fuel. So putting all that together, it would seem to be a wash as for changing from the norm for the other 110 engines.

But what really bothers me is the design mandate that the peak cylinder pressure occur at or very near to 13 degrees ATDC to obtain maximum efficiency, torque and performance. To get that peak, the spark occurs some 30 degrees BTDC depending on several factors such as engine rpm, charge density, engine loading and engine temperature etc.. These factors are all well understood by the designers and thus are well integrated into engine designs.

So why was the spark timing advanced some 12 degrees over that used on the other 110 hp engines? And I know of no factory statements to use super high octane gas with this setup.

And even when someone did (you) why such a startling performance increase as in "blowing off the doors......." Heck, all the factory needed to do was make all 110 engines like the one in question and Chevrolet could have really won the mussle car race back in the 1960s. No need for 140 engines or turbos.

The funny thing is that Chevrolet must have used the 24 deg initial setting to COMPENSATE for some factors we don't really understand to just obtain equal performance with the other 110 engines.

But now you have identified a different reason. I.e., to obtain even greater acceleration/speed than the standard 110s.

Some sort of magic going on here?

Bob Helt

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: Kent Sullivan ()
Date: January 30, 2017 03:19PM

Hi Bob,

I just noticed that items 98 and 99 are the same. I checked the list of turn signal / steering column errors & omissions for the '67 shop manual, that I sent you back in 2014, and nothing is missing from your document, so I assume item 98 was duplicated by accident.

--Kent



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2017 03:20PM by Kent Sullivan.

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: Bob Helt ()
Date: January 30, 2017 04:08PM

Kent Sullivan Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Bob,
>
> I just noticed that items 98 and 99 are the same.
> I checked the list of turn signal / steering
> column errors & omissions for the '67 shop manual,
> that I sent you back in 2014, and nothing is
> missing from your document, so I assume item 98
> was duplicated by accident.
>
> --Kent


Thanks, Kent.
Corrected now in master but will publish when another error surfaces..
Bob Helt

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: whubbell ()
Date: September 08, 2019 11:07AM

Since the passing of Bob Helt, has anybody else assumed ownership of this project?

Here is a new error:

‘64 Supplement page 8-25 wiring diagram incorrectly shows glove compartment light wiring as a separate wire attaching directly to fuse box. In fact, for 1964, the wire is part of the dash harness and is joined within the harness to the other B/O wires that go to Dome/courtesy lamps and Brake/Tail lamps. There is no separate fuse for the glove compartment light in the 1964 harness.

Bill Hubbell,
President, Stock Corvair Group

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: whubbell ()
Date: September 08, 2019 11:10AM

Here is another error from the 1964 Supplement:

Page 8-25 The center Heater resistor wire is labeled 14 B/OR (Black with orange stripe). In fact it is 14 OR (solid orange).

Bill Hubbell,
President, Stock Corvair Group

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Re: KNOWN FACTORY MANUAL ERRORS with corrected info /values.
Posted by: whubbell ()
Date: September 08, 2019 11:32AM

One more error from 1964 Supplement:

Page 8-25 - wiring diagram omits the LH and RH door switches and wiring (18 B/W)

Bill Hubbell,
President, Stock Corvair Group

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