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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: August 19, 2013 08:30PM

Dan, I wonder if someone just spray bombed black over the under side of the lid at some point. It is so black in that photo. Sure looks like they are in about the right place.

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon Ted Brown EFI Gen II
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: August 27, 2013 06:57AM

NM, could you see what size those buttons are? I found something at the hardware store that might be very close.

Dan, I would still love to see a coupe more pictures of the insulation in your car if you have the chance. I also would like to see what the back of the folding seat looks like. Does your seat have the check pattern on the metal part or is it smooth? I think it is metal where the filler panel snaps in to hold it down.

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon Ted Brown EFI Gen II
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: NMCarNut ()
Date: August 28, 2013 05:53PM

Sorry it took so long, I've got an important hard deadline job looming and now just got a chance to look. Anyway, here is a pic with three views.

White plastic, 1.47" diameter, with a .185" diameter post .627" long with a .2" diameter head.

Cheers!

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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: August 29, 2013 05:18AM

You are the man, thanks so much!

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon Ted Brown EFI Gen II
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Date: August 30, 2013 12:05AM

Finally was able to get more photos.

Here's the overall view of the underside:



Closeup of screws/washers retainers on right side:



Closeup of Left side:



Appears that the black coating (paint?) is over some light color flexible covering.



Unknown if this is the original engine cover.

Seat back appears and sounds like embossed metal. It has a pebble grain to it, though.
Engine cover and side panels are smooth.


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 Corsa 140 Coupe ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Convertible Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza Spyder Convertible ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 CoupeEvening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: August 30, 2013 02:45AM

I can't imagine that those plastic things held up well, I wonder if they broke and they were replaced by screws with washers?

Is there a body assembly manual from Fisher? I bet the insulation was on the body when it was silvered for final assembly. This would explained why there is no mention of it in the 62 assembly manual. I have never looked in a 61 manual but would guess it is the same as the 62.

The one other place that might have a picture of the underside of the lid is the 61 shop manual. I do not have one handy but will take a look when I can.

Dan thanks for looking at your seat, I got a rear seat backrest for my car out of a 61 and then realized that the 62 might be different. I am pretty sure that the 61 has the cool check pattern imbosed I the steel around the bottom.

The pictures are great, thanks again!

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon Ted Brown EFI Gen II
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: September 01, 2013 09:22AM

NMCarNut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sorry it took so long, I've got an important hard
> deadline job looming and now just got a chance to
> look. Anyway, here is a pic with three views.
>
> White plastic, 1.47" diameter, with a .185"
> diameter post .627" long with a .2" diameter
> head.
>
> Cheers!

Nm, still hunting for the retainers. Is the head 2" or 1.47"? I may have found something close, we shall see.

I had my dad look in a 64 parts book for the retainers but we did not have any luck. He did find a number for the insulation tough. In the description it says 1" batting covered by black polly propylene. I am going to try and find a 61 and 62 parts catalogue and see if there is and change in description.

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon Ted Brown EFI Gen II
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: NMCarNut ()
Date: September 01, 2013 07:39PM

It is definitely not 2". I double checked and the retainer is not exactly round - maybe some warpage/shrinking with time and heat? Small dimension is 1.47" (where I originally measured) and the largest dimension 1.5".

So probably considered a 1.5" diameter retainer.

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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: September 06, 2013 12:28PM

I spy some insulation retainers in on the 62 that is for sale in CA.



Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon Ted Brown EFI Gen II
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: RthrDent ()
Date: September 06, 2013 06:19PM

Well I had to go look at mine too. Probably not much help to your issue but interesting brace.

Allen and Stacy, Golden Valley,AZ
Facebook: [www.facebook.com]
[www.facebook.com]

'61 Lakewood
'65 Corsa turbo convertible (former)
'64 Spyder convertible (former)






"I love the smell of oil smoke in the morning."

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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: TexasAg77 ()
Date: September 06, 2013 06:44PM

This thread has made me realize I need to get my engine cover reworked. And the pic of the side cover w/ the weatherstrip helped a lot!!

Ed McClintock
Cleveland TN
Choo Choo Corvairs
'61 Lakewood,,63 Vert, '83 Jeep CJ-8 Scrambler- [www.cj-8.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2013 06:47PM by TexasAg77.

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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Date: September 06, 2013 07:09PM

RthrDent Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well I had to go look at mine too. Probably not
> much help to your issue but interesting brace.
------------------------------------------------------=
Allen you could measure the lighter area around the original holes and we would know the diameter of the plastic push retainers that were original.
That looks very much like original insulation/plastic that has degraded over the years and someone added the brace to help hold it away from the engine fan.


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 Corsa 140 Coupe ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Convertible Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza Spyder Convertible ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 CoupeEvening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: PGVair ()
Date: September 08, 2013 09:49AM

I have a '62 Monza & a '62 700 wagon. The Monza is in pieces undergoing restoration but the 700 is an assembled parts car & the re-assemble reference for the Monza. The Monza engine lid insulation is long gone, but the remains of the 700 insulation is pictured here. It seems to be a mineral wool material covered with Mylar film. It has four button retainers too. There appears to be glue residue on the bottom of the lids of both cars, so I think a wool sheet may have been glued to the lid, covered with the film and then the retainers installed covering the edges of the film. The film was black (and dirty), but when I removed a piece of film from under the retainer, it was clear. So it is possible that the film was painted after everthing was assembled. The film measured 0.001 thick, so it was probably standard 92 gauge film.

Also attached are pictures of the battery bolt clip and how it would probably have appeared installed on a battery tray. This looks like how it was shown in the assembly manual photos previously shown in this thread above.

As far as the interior side finish patterns, both the Monza and the 700 have smooth engine lids, side panel covers and transaxle covers. The Monza had smooth cardboard on the seat back, smooth outer trim that covers the seat upholstery and smooth seat filler flap. The 700 has waffle pattern seat back metal, perimeter upholstery retainers and filler flap. Note that the 700 seat back surface is metal, whereas the Monza seat back is cardboard. The metal under the Monza's cardboard is smooth.

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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: PGVair ()
Date: September 08, 2013 09:53AM

My pictures did not post, perhaps because one file was too big so I'm attaching two smaller files to the is message to see if they come thru.

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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: PGVair ()
Date: September 08, 2013 10:17AM

Third attempt of attachment here of battery bolt clip installed.

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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: September 08, 2013 01:20PM

PGVair, thanks so much for the pictures. I have been wondering about those little clips for a while. Do you think there is a place for a fifth hold down on your lid? And if you Monza lid is bare could you see if you can find four or five holes?



Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon Ted Brown EFI Gen II
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: PGVair ()
Date: September 08, 2013 01:47PM

Yes, there is a retainer there as well (under the dirt) and my bare lid also has a hole for a retainer at the same location, which is directly above the generator flange at the generator fan. The other retainers are positioned so as to help prevent the film from contacting the air cleaners, thus the retainer locations are not symmetrical from side to side as are the carbs.

I also measured the thickness of the wool bat and it is 1".

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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: NMCarNut ()
Date: September 08, 2013 02:08PM

From whats been shown so far it looks like the insulation, mylar, and retainers used were the same for both 61 and 62.
And 62s have a smooth interior surface versus the pattern surface on the 61s. I could have sworn my 62 700 was patterened similar to my 61s, but since I sold the 62 in about 1970 and have slept a few times since I might be remembering wrong . . .

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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: SpyderMan ()
Date: September 10, 2013 09:04AM

Do we think that the original plastic polypropylene was clear when new? There is so much dirt and heat that would discolor it over time. PGVair, could you put a caliper on plastic to see how thick it was when you back out by your 62?

All of the batting seems to be a reddish color, is it fiberglass?

If you could buy the white plastic retainers for a reasonable price would you buy a set of five?

These seem perfect to make on a 3D printer.

Sam Russell
Durham NC
1962 Monza Wagon Ted Brown EFI Gen II
1964 Spyder coupe


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Re: Wagon Guys: Under lid insulation, what was OG?
Posted by: PGVair ()
Date: September 10, 2013 02:05PM

As I mentioned above, the plastic film is 0.001" thick and was clear under the retainer, so I think it was all clear and possibly was painted sometimes either by GM or a previous owner. I can't actually tell if mine was painted black or its has a coating of baked on dirty oil. In some of the pictures from others above, it appears that the insulation is visible through the film, thus it was clear on those cars.

The insulation in my car is light brown and appears to be mineral wool. In other pictures above the insulation color looks similar to mine.

Although the GM manual says it polypropylene, I think it think it is polyester film (DuPont trade names Mylar & Melinex). Polypropylene will stretch, but oriented polyester does not. The piece from my car will not stretch.

Also, polyester is more heat & oil resistant. Polyester film is still used under hoods of new cars for emission control information labels. In this case the film has been coated so printing will not flake off and the label is glued to the car. Polyester doesn't typically discolor even under high temperatures or light. Because of this, it is the film used for window tint film after its been treated to absorb light & UV rays.

If you want a sample of the film & insulation from my car, PM me your address & I'll send it.

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