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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: xavpil ()
Date: March 22, 2012 03:12AM

> 1. Did I feel stressed?
> 2. Did I feel threatened?
> 3. Did I feel like doing harm to someone?
> The nurse then informed me, that if I had answered yes to any of the
> questions, I would have lost my concealed carry permit as it would have gone > into my > medical records and the VA would have reported it to Homeland
> Security.
>

I admit that they are pushing the envelop by reporting people who answer yes to 1. (Did I feel stressed?)
But of course whoever answers 2 or 3 shouldn't own a gun, duh!
2 and 3 are mental disorders/sickness. Might be temporary and certainly treatable but why would you want a person who feels like "someone is after him" or a person who has pulsions to harm others, own a gun?!?
Do you want a drunk to drive a car? No.

Gun and Shooting Accidents are one of the top ten leading causes of accidental death for all age groups outside of newborns and infants.
In 2007, there were 122 unintentional firearm deaths in children, and an additional 3,060 nonfatal gun and shooting accidents, which resulted in an estimated 1,375 children needing to be hospitalized for their injuries.


[pediatrics.about.com]

Xavier, Los Angeles, CA
64 Corvair Monza Convertible

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: xavpil ()
Date: March 22, 2012 03:21AM

this also is interesting:
The United States has the highest rate of gun related injuries (not deaths per capita) among developed countries, though they also have the highest rate of gun ownership and highest rate of officers.
Source: wikipedia

The United States leads the world's richest nations in gun deaths -- murders, suicides, and accidental deaths due to guns - according to a study published April 17, 1998 by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the International Journal of Epidemiology.
The U.S. was first at 14.24 gun deaths per 100,000 people. Two other countries in the Americas came next. Brazil was second with 12.95, followed by Mexico with 12.69.

source: [www.medicinenet.com]

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: xavpil ()
Date: March 22, 2012 03:29AM

davemotohead Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it just me?? Or are Republicans just Way more
> Sexyer the Democrats??grinning smiley

this is what you call sexy?! smiling smiley

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: bill darcy ()
Date: March 22, 2012 03:40AM

Why would you cite a 14 year old study ,when later studies have clearly shown that gun deaths have actually decreased since carry laws have been eased.Even a liberal outfit like MSNBC reported a 28% decrease in gun deaths.March 2010 if you're interested.

In the Hub City, Belen NM

Lead from behind..... get left in the dust
"I have not failed I've just found ten thousand ways that won't work" Thomas Edison

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: xavpil ()
Date: March 22, 2012 03:56AM

You're right this was an old study, sorry.

Here's a more recent one that will make us feel better smiling smiley
In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).

31,513 deaths a year!!!!!

and yes mostly suicides but "The level of gun ownership world-wide is directly related to murder and suicide rates and specifically to the level of death by gunfire."
[www.gun-control-network.org]

I still don't think someone who feels threatened by others or who feels like hurting someone should carry a gun. Maybe if he is you guy's neighbor but not mine! smiling smiley

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: WalterElias ()
Date: March 22, 2012 04:12AM

We've become a risk averse society and even more so with each passing day.

With freedom comes risk and responsibility......

I'd rather have the freedom and take the risk and responsibilties that go along with it upon myself. There is no such thing as a Utopia on earth. Never has been and never will be but there is such a thing as the risk of losing your freedom to out of control governance.

Dan Kling
1961 Greenbrier Deluxe, 110 HP, 4spd, 3.89 stump puller
1963 Spyder Coupe, restored, converted to 4spd Saginaw
1967 UltraVan #299, The migration has begun, we're on the road again......Save the Whales!

Photos of our Greenbrier, UltraVan and work-in-progress @

[www.flickr.com]

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: xavpil ()
Date: March 22, 2012 04:21AM

WalterElias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I'd rather have the freedom and take the risk and
> responsibilties that go along with it upon myself.
> There is no such thing as a Utopia on earth.
> Never has been and never will be but there is such
> a thing as the risk of losing your freedom to out
> of control governance.

I see your point.
But what about speed limit? Why can't we drive as fast as we want and take responsibility for it if we crash?
Why can't we use drugs?
Why can't we travel to Cuba?
Why can't we walk around in may states carrying a nice cold beer on a hot summer day?
Why can't we use fire crackers on a 4 th of July in several states?
This one might sound stupid but think about it: Why can't we take a pee in an alley at 3AM without taking the chance of being fined? (foreign people laugh so hard at this one that they think I am making it up?)
Why can't we cross a street when there are no car and that the pedestrian light is red?
I could go on.
All of these things are legal in most industrialized countries.
Now if people think they are free because they can carry a gun and think it is worth "fighting" to save this right, I say there are more important things to fight for.

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: WalterElias ()
Date: March 22, 2012 04:26AM

From my cold, dead hands.

You have a list of freedoms that have been slowly taken away. Like I said, we have grown to be a risk averse society.

Why don't you move to the UK if you like the gun laws so much?

Dan Kling
1961 Greenbrier Deluxe, 110 HP, 4spd, 3.89 stump puller
1963 Spyder Coupe, restored, converted to 4spd Saginaw
1967 UltraVan #299, The migration has begun, we're on the road again......Save the Whales!

Photos of our Greenbrier, UltraVan and work-in-progress @

[www.flickr.com]

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: March 22, 2012 04:27AM

mike hicks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
It's time to grow up and join the rest of us here in the real world.
-------------------------------------------------------

I lived in the Real world all day today and When I looked around mikey,,you wern't in it!!grinning smiley
-------------------------------------------------------
I have a loaded pistol sitting on my kitchen table for the last 20 yearseye popping smiley,,it hasen't comitted suiside yet!!smoking smiley
-------------------------------------------------------
When they come to take my guns,,I will let them have one Bullet at a time!tongue sticking out smiley
-------------------------------------------------------
When they outlaw guns,,only outlaws will have them! Think of what the crime rate would be when Criminals are the only one carrying guns and they Know it? confused smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2012 04:33AM by davemotohead.

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: WalterElias ()
Date: March 22, 2012 04:27AM

Yes, pissing in an alley is a freedom!

Dan Kling
1961 Greenbrier Deluxe, 110 HP, 4spd, 3.89 stump puller
1963 Spyder Coupe, restored, converted to 4spd Saginaw
1967 UltraVan #299, The migration has begun, we're on the road again......Save the Whales!

Photos of our Greenbrier, UltraVan and work-in-progress @

[www.flickr.com]

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: mwr ()
Date: March 22, 2012 04:35AM

WalterElias Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why don't you move to the UK if you like the gun
> laws so much?

I moved to NZ, and the strict handgun rules make it terrible police state. If only they understood freedom like we do.


Hang on, someone's at the door. Sh*t! They've come for m

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: WalterElias ()
Date: March 22, 2012 04:42AM

The second amendment is not there for hunters, it's really there for a citizens protection against not only his fellow man but against a tyranical government.

Dan Kling
1961 Greenbrier Deluxe, 110 HP, 4spd, 3.89 stump puller
1963 Spyder Coupe, restored, converted to 4spd Saginaw
1967 UltraVan #299, The migration has begun, we're on the road again......Save the Whales!

Photos of our Greenbrier, UltraVan and work-in-progress @

[www.flickr.com]

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: xavpil ()
Date: March 22, 2012 05:10AM

I all alone in this crowd...

Are you all predominantly white, over 40, leaving in rural towns, never left the US to travel - Sandals Resort in Cancun maybe... and when you say you traveled abroad, in fact you went out of state?
Oh, and Arabs are terrorists and Bush was a good president?

Am I far from the reality?
Just for my personal stats! smiling smiley

I need to stop before one of you guys shoots me! smiling smiley

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: beleneagle ()
Date: March 22, 2012 05:31AM

Some of us just aren't worth the trouble. I mean think about it. Got to get the gun out of the 3' federally mandated safe. Next you need to go get the ammo out of the basement, after waiting your 60 days requirement, then gotta go next door and get the key to the gunlock. Then you need to file a request seeking permission to even use the firearm, not to mention the environmental impact study. Ya, I guess one could say that some of us just aren't worth all that trouble.



David



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2012 05:32AM by beleneagle.

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: xavpil ()
Date: March 22, 2012 05:36AM

beleneagle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some of us just aren't worth the trouble. I mean
> think about it. Got to get the gun out of the 3'
> federally mandated safe. Next you need to go get
> the ammo out of the basement, after waiting your
> 60 days requirement, then gotta go next door and
> get the key to the gunlock. Then you need to file
> a request seeking permission to even use the
> firearm, not to mention the environmental impact
> study. Ya, I guess one could say that some of us
> just aren't worth all that trouble.
>
> David

smileys with beer

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: Leon Renaud ()
Date: March 22, 2012 08:27AM

xavpil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> this also is interesting:
> The United States has the highest rate of gun
> related injuries (not deaths per capita) among
> developed countries, though they also have the
> highest rate of gun ownership and highest rate of
> officers.
> Source: wikipedia
>
> The United States leads the world's richest
> nations in gun deaths -- murders, suicides, and
> accidental deaths due to guns - according to a
> study published April 17, 1998 by the Centers for
> Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) in the
> International Journal of Epidemiology.
> The U.S. was first at 14.24 gun deaths per 100,000
> people. Two other countries in the Americas came
> next. Brazil was second with 12.95, followed by
> Mexico with 12.69.
> source:
> [www.medicinenet.com]
> iclekey=6166
Yes and when anti gunners quote this stuff they are very careful to only list totals and no details. How many of those "gun injuries are the result of a law abiding citizen injuring someone in the act of a crime How many homicides are from the same reason? None of these cases are stated when the anti gunners or the government quote these numbers. "The right of the people" is quoted in the 1st 2nd and 4th Amendments to the Constitution and it is readily recognized just what is meant by "The people" in the 1st and 4th amendments yet "The people" is questioned in the 2nd!Even though "to protect and serve" appears in some form on Police cars and badges they are not responsible to protect you! Try this your wife calls the you at the office because someone is trying to break in your house You have her call the police and you call yourself before rushing home,When you get there their are no cops you find your front door kicked in and your wife raped and beaten unconscious you call the ambulance and get your wife to the hospital, An hour after she gets transported the cops finally show up at your house! You and your wife sue the police because they didn't "protect" her and court rules in favor of the cops who never showed up in time! this isn't some story I made up this was an actual Supreme Court ruling the police could not be held responsible for not showing up in time to prevent the attack! When seconds count the police are minutes away at best! What you never see in US news is the 10s of thousands of protesting Austrailian,Canadian and English "Subjects" gathered at their capitols screaming "give us back our guns" and their violent crime rates are rising steady not declining!Yet every state that has recognized "right to carry" laws has seen a decline in violent crimes! the right to private gun ownership even protected non gun owners without firing a shot here in the US at the beginning of our involvement of WWII! When asked at the end of WWII Why the Japanese did not press their Pearl Harbor attack on to Mainland US soil the Empror replied "Because we know that most Americans Citizens own guns and know how to use them we knew we could not survive a ground war on US soil" And before anyone @#$%& I'm anti police there are 3 generations of Police in my family.

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: xavpil ()
Date: March 22, 2012 08:54AM

I'll stop here because we could go on and on. An interesting subject. And some good points on both side I believe.
I respect your guys' opinion and I thank you all for respecting mine,
In most forum I would have been verbally lynched, but once again this forum stood to its standards.
And now I can tell you the truth: I've contemplated the idea of owning a gun.., just in case. But the idea of having it loaded - to be able to use it quickly if needed - scares me since I have a 2 year old running in the house...
And the other day my step son who forgot his keys climbed through the window at midnight and scared the sh....t out of me. I heard some noise and half awake I rushed to the window and pushed the "guy" out. If I had a gun I don't know what would have happened...
I do believe we should have the right to own a gun.
It is just that guns have to be treated as weapons IMO and not toys, They can take what's the most precious for all of us: life. And does a guy who tries to still my TV in my house deserves to die... I don't think so. But again we don't know what his intentions really are... it could be just stealing the TV, but also maybe hurting my family...
So what should I get? Something small, safe and easy to use.... And I guess some kind of safety box...

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: xavpil ()
Date: March 22, 2012 08:56AM

Oh and for the record and in reference to one of my early posting:
I am white, over 40, originally from a rural town, and I went to Cancun - not Sandals but another resort! spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: Leon Renaud ()
Date: March 22, 2012 09:49AM

xavpil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'll stop here because we could go on and on. An
> interesting subject. And some good points on both
> side I believe.
> I respect your guys' opinion and I thank you all
> for respecting mine,
> In most forum I would have been verbally lynched,
> but once again this forum stood to its standards.
> And now I can tell you the truth: I've
> contemplated the idea of owning a gun.., just in
> case. But the idea of having it loaded - to be
> able to use it quickly if needed - scares me since
> I have a 2 year old running in the house...
> And the other day my step son who forgot his keys
> climbed through the window at midnight and scared
> the sh....t out of me. I heard some noise and half
> awake I rushed to the window and pushed the "guy"
> out. If I had a gun I don't know what would have
> happened...
> I do believe we should have the right to own a
> gun.
> It is just that guns have to be treated as weapons
> IMO and not toys, They can take what's the most
> precious for all of us: life. And does a guy who
> tries to still my TV in my house deserves to
> die... I don't think so. But again we don't know
> what his intentions really are... it could be just
> stealing the TV, but also maybe hurting my
> family...
> So what should I get? Something small, safe and
> easy to use.... And I guess some kind of safety
> box...

#1 You should get proper training! If your serious about owning a fire arm go to your closest dealer and ask them what is available for training in your area.If you can do it go to a training program like "frontsight". What do you think would have been safer rushing an unknown person sneaking in your window unarmed or to be standing in a protected area after calling 911 with your fire arm ready and yelling that you are armed and ready to defend your family and the cops are "on the way" Ideally you have a cordless phone in one hand to the cops! By now your step son is yelling out who he is!You and the rest of your family are out of harms way, If it was an intruder intent to rob you He has 2 options now, LEAVE as fast as he can or press the attack, If he decides to continue with the home invasion You now have 2 options both involve you staying between him and your family with that gun though ! Option 1 let him rob whatever he wants while waiting for the police to arrive even letting him leave as long as he does not offer a direct threat to you or your family or #2 "Ending" the situation whenever you feel the threat deserves it. Now be damned sure if your going to own and pull a gun on someone that you have what it takes to pull that trigger because chances are damned good if you pull a gun on an attacker you will have to use it and if you can't pull that trigger that gun just might end up being used on you and know this it is more common for a break in to go directly to your kitchen for one of your knives rather than carry a weapon off the street.If they are caught in the house they can drop the knife and be an"unarmed intruder " real quick. No one but you and can decide what is the right action to take at any given moment in a situation like this and only good training and practice will help you make those decisions! Just the presents of a gun has stopped assaults without a shot ever being fired.By the way Rural over 50 and any race are exactly the people who need a fire arm for protection! This is the place where cops are 15 minutes or more away on a roll everything call! If your step son had been an intruder would you have wanted to give him 15-30 minutes free range over your home and family?

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Re: O/T- FYI: Gun Owners!!!
Posted by: 4carbcorvair ()
Date: March 22, 2012 11:46AM

xavpil Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> You're right this was an old study, sorry.
>
> Here's a more recent one that will make us feel
> better smiling smiley
> In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths
> from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of
> death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident
> 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top
> ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of
> firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal
> and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to
> 1999, and has remained relatively constant since.
> However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause
> of death in the U.S., particularly among youth
> (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).
>
> 31,513 deaths a year!!!!!
>
> and yes mostly suicides but "The level of gun
> ownership world-wide is directly related to murder
> and suicide rates and specifically to the level of
> death by gunfire."
> [www.gun-control-network.org]
>
> I still don't think someone who feels threatened
> by others or who feels like hurting someone should
> carry a gun. Maybe if he is you guy's neighbor but
> not mine! smiling smiley

Guns don't kill, people do. Guns, knives, hammers, baseball bats, cars, 2x4's, whatever are all tools. It's the person behind it. I have yet to see a gun get up on its own and kill someone.

--------------------------------
Ronnie
Southern Maine.
[www.dirigocorvairs.com]
66 Corsa Convertible, 140, 4sp.




It doesn't leak, it's marking it's territory.

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