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Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: captdirt ()
Date: February 26, 2012 05:20AM

Think it would produce enough heat by running the engine oil thru an oil cooler inside the car to take the chill off? Maybe mounted on the back floorboard or in a console between the front buckets with a fan to circulate some air?

65 Corsa 140/4 spd in the process

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: ubuck ()
Date: February 26, 2012 05:31AM

You're not the first one to ask! Read On!

[corvaircenter.com]

Brian
63 Monza Convertibile Sprint Clone
64 Monza Coupe Sprint Clone
65 Monza Convertible
66 Corsa Convertible
69 Grand Prix Model J
2004 SSR


South Holland, IL

Corsa/CCE



"Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be." Ashleigh Brilliant



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2012 05:32AM by ubuck.

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: Mel Francis ()
Date: February 26, 2012 09:31PM

I'm using a 10' x10" oil cooler to heat, or more exactly, 'take the chill off' our interior in the Monza SS, since this car doesn't have a direct air heater system and will mainly be used just during the spring/summer/fall months anyway.

We're using a Mocal Oil-Stat and will be modifying the center bulb up to a 205F unit, so that the oil is even hotter, before heading down the line to the cooler, which is equipped with its own fan. During the summer, the heat will be ducted outside the interior, rather than be retained.

I'm also investigating using piston-cooling oil jets, to get even more heat into the oil system, helping the engine to warm quicker and maintain a more even core temperature, since there are no thermostats in our lower shrouds.

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: captdirt ()
Date: February 26, 2012 10:28PM

How about a couple of solenoid valves that could shut the oil flow off or shunt the lines together to bypass the heater coil or send it to an outside cooler?

BTW, I have been following your SS build and all I can say is "INCREDIBLE!!!".

I can't imagine the the amount of thought and talent that is going into that car. Just wish I had about 10% of either.

Tom

65 Corsa 140/4 spd in the process

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: February 26, 2012 10:42PM

Do you mind me asking what is wrong with the Corvair heater system in your 65? OR let me rephrase: why do you want to re-engineer a good heating system that is already plumbed into your car?

NO FLAME, just curious. My heater fan gets turned off (or maybe to lower speeds) after some running down the road in 0 degree weather.

Sincere regards, Steve

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo 1967 monza 110/4
1968 monza 110/4 1971 amante gt 110/4

Golden, Colo. CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: Mel Francis ()
Date: February 26, 2012 10:46PM

Interesting idea Tom!

Space is limited with this short wheelbase chassis, and I wanted to keep things as simple as possible during the initial test-driving stage, so this one big cooler is all that's needed, right now. A simple damper door will let the heat out of the interior into the RH wheelwell.

Thanks for your kind comments on the Monza Project. It's great to finally get to develop some of these ideas that have been rattling around in my head for years...
Follow the build on Flickr: [www.flickr.com]

If you're headed to the Performance Workshop this year, see you there and we can brain-storm our best ideas for oil-heating and anything else that occurs to us!

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: jimmyo ()
Date: February 26, 2012 10:53PM

Besides the fact that oil dosen't released heat well, I would also think the oil pump moving all that oil around would be a issue as well. Now if I really just wanted to do an exercise in engineering, I might make a heat exchanger in place of the stock oil cooler and circulate coolant with a small 12v pump to a heater core in the car. The coolant would keep the oil temps down and you get to be warm. That being said I don't think you need it.cool smiley

Jim O'Connor
45 miles north of The Bronx, N.Y.
1962 Greenbrier 110 4spd
1964 Monza Convertible 110 PG
"Wherever you go....There you are"


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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: Mel Francis ()
Date: February 26, 2012 11:18PM

I'm willing to try any of these alternatives Jim, since this car has no direct-air heater system, due to the direct-air cooling duct already in place. Last summer, I could really have used a warm defroster airflow, to get the dew-fall off the windshield, when driving it home later in the evenings. I had to wipe it all off with a towel and just start driving, to keep it clear. The first mile or so was rather unsafe...

I've discovered that hot oil, already up in its optimum heat range circulates and releases its heat better than oil at just 20 degrees cooler, so that's why I want the engine oil to heat quicker, by adding the piston heat to the oil too.

Eventually we'd like to turbocharge the engine and having a good piston cooling setup already in place, can help with that.

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: captdirt ()
Date: February 26, 2012 11:25PM

Looking for a heater alternative as the car has had everything remotely related to the heater removed.

I like the heat exchanger idea but I don't think I have the expertise to pull it off. I would think you'd have to include an expansion tank to allow for expansion as the coolant heats up. The oil cooler takes care of that by not being a closed system.

Thought about seat heaters but that doesn't help the fingers and toeies. Guess I could just wear my heater motorcycle gear.

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: Mel Francis ()
Date: February 27, 2012 02:03AM

Same situation here, Tom.

The original heater system has been completely removed and it's not going back on.

If Chevrolet was building the Corvair these days, they wouldn't be able to consider pumping possibly contaminated
cooling air from the engine compartment forward, so I'm putting that same limitation on myself, for this car.

There appear to be alternate ways to warm the interior, especially since this particular car will only see 3-season use.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 02:12AM by Mel Francis.

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: Jim ()
Date: February 27, 2012 02:30AM

I have one in my 65 corsa and it works well.

Oil cooler/heater post by Jim

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: ron L ()
Date: February 27, 2012 02:37AM

steve c goodman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> why do you want to re-engineer a good
> heating system that is already plumbed into your
> car?

I don't believe it's about heat output, but getting a reliable and clean source of warm air. It would be simpler in front engine cars if we just put dampers/flaps in the firewall and let the heat in, wouldn't it? Would that be considered a "good heating system"?

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: captdirt ()
Date: February 27, 2012 03:43AM

Jim, I found the old thread. Got any pics of the completed install?

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 27, 2012 03:47AM

No Ron.... too many fumes, etc from an engine compartment...

At least our Vair "fresh air" units theoretically took in clean air from ontop...

And look what happens!! gg


Capt. Dirt.... the reason Jim's oil based heater worked well is most likely because of his electric fan!





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: Mel Francis ()
Date: February 27, 2012 04:11AM

Matt, I think Ron was being facetious with his 'flaps in the firewall' comment.
He was referring to the Corvair's heating system using ambient engine compartment air as its source.

Remember, the main reason that the proposed plastic engine fan wasn't used, was its tendency to react to possible battery fumes in the engine compartment.

While I'm glad that the engineers were concerned about the ability of the fan plastic material to resist acid fumes, where was their concern for the driver or passengers' ability to resist these same fumes being pumped forward to the interior?

As I used my Corvairs as daily drivers, especially during the winter months back in the late '60s and early '70s, I often smelled oil, gas and other related compartment fumes coming from the defroster vents. Heck, even a sloppy oil-top up could send a new batch of fumes forward, coating the windshield with a slight mist.

This time around, I want my enjoyment of my Corvair to be fume-free, just like all the other cars I've owned since the mid-'70s.

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OT---Re:12 volt in car heater?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 27, 2012 04:21AM

Mel, for you.. no room...

But my pet system is 12 vdc.... a separate system


Using the AC or Smog pump crank pulley to turn a completely separate Alternator with battery on the pass. side 100 amp alt.???

Then using a large Deep Cycle battery... power a few of the common 12vdc heaters....various parts of the interior...

[www.ebay.com]

My calcs say it should be good. Sadly no one has ever reported trying it...and I don't live in Cold country any more..





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2012 05:18AM by MattNall.

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: 62corvairjunky ()
Date: February 27, 2012 05:06AM

I am going to try an exhaust heat exchanger that is mounted above the transaxle.

It will be driven with an electric fan that recirculates cabin air.

Junky
Hurricane Utah.
Home of the "Red Desert Corvair Sanctuary."

 photo 7121255b-53ac-4335-a3ba-83724bf6f396_zps111b404a.jpg

62 Rusty Rampy
62 wagon under construction.(Taking all my time and $$)
61 lakewood parts car.
63 coupe
half a dozen parts cars n trucks
20x40 garage full of greasy parts

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: ron L ()
Date: February 27, 2012 05:40AM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No Ron.... too many fumes, etc from an engine
> compartment...
>
> At least our Vair "fresh air" units theoretically
> took in clean air from ontop...
>
> And look what happens!! gg

Exactly what I mean. Most of us here have worked under the hood of a car with the engine running and smelling all the crap the radiator fan blows into our faces. Imagine ducting that air into your cabin for heat. After all it's "fresh air" before the radiator fan sucks it through. No thanks. There are many other problems: the inlet for the Corvair's forced cabin air is in close proximity of the entire exhaust system, there is no EVAP system to trap fumes that evaporate from your carb causing the fumes to just float around your engine compartment until you start the engine, CO is odorless, the previously-mentioned battery acid fumes, etc. the list goes on.

Even if you could pull enough heat out of the oil to adequately heat the cabin, it seems to me you'd over cool the engine oil in the process. There is a lot of heat to be harnessed on a water pumper since the coolant goes around the valve seats, cylinder heads, and cylinder walls. Oil simply runs through bearings and dribbles back down into the pan.

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 27, 2012 05:41AM

Read my post on using 12 vdc... new heaters are getting better!

System could be removed in the summer..





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: Oil cooler in car for heater?
Posted by: jimmyo ()
Date: February 27, 2012 10:59AM

Matt, 12vdc heater seems like a good supplement system for a van or GB. I've seen these and would consider one in my GB if I end up using it in the colder months. At 300 watts you could take the chill out of the rear. It draws to much current for a stock electrical system unless you up your alternater to a 100amp and I would also do a dual battery set-up with a deep cycle battery. The hardware for the dual batteries are available from RV places. The dual rv set-up could be set-up with a 12vdc to 120vac converter, the advantage to this is that they are set-up with relays to charge the car batt 1st, then the aux batt. When you run the converter it draws from the aux batt and won't kill the car batt. You can install a bypass too and give yourself a jumpstart from your aux system if you got stuck.

Jim O'Connor
45 miles north of The Bronx, N.Y.
1962 Greenbrier 110 4spd
1964 Monza Convertible 110 PG
"Wherever you go....There you are"


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