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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Date: February 26, 2012 10:12AM

I agree, that is a much nicer way to install the dual M/C.
Here is the way Chevrolet did it in the 100 original Yenko Stingers.



Photo scanned from an older issue of "Communique"
That M/C is a 1966 Cadillac unit. The only GM car that had the dual circuit M/C available in 1965/66.
I bought a rebuilt one online that will be installed in my Corvair.


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Posted by: Johnniespeed ()
Date: February 26, 2012 10:56AM

This is for Jimmyo, since I cannot attach a pic to a PM.
It is a dual master cylinder set up on a FC. Also converted to hydraulic clutch.

John

1962 Rampside, 4.3 Vortec powered.
The thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.

Sparta Michigan.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/26/2012 10:57AM by Johnniespeed.

Attachments:

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Date: February 26, 2012 08:06PM

The older looped desinhg line we used to use was replaced by a manufactured short line. Looks even better now.

Lon
www.corvairunderground.com
ON SALE UNTIL FEB 29TH
[www.corvairunderground.com]

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Posted by: gwydionjhr ()
Date: February 26, 2012 09:41PM

My suggestion...

-'68 Chevelle Drum/Drum Non-power MC
-1 Corvair bulk head fitting (so it matches the existing one)

Fab the rest as you see fit and safe.

Regards,
Joel Rushworth
1961 Rampside w/Deluxe Scamper Camper
1966 Corsized Cdn Monza Coupe
1967 UV #292
"Kick the Hell out of the Status Quo" - Ed Cole

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: February 27, 2012 09:02AM

Heres a pic from the inside of my car showing how the extra "T" for the rear brakes, next to the original "T" makes moving the line to the rear brakes a very minor change. With the Clark's kit they recommend bending the line to the rear brakes 90 degrees - not a good idea.

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Posted by: Jamison82 ()
Date: February 27, 2012 09:32AM

I'm curious to know what's wrong with a 90degree bend? What advantage comes with the T

Jamison
1965 Corsa Convertible - Fixer Upper
Glendale, CA

[corvaircenter.com]

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: February 27, 2012 10:05AM

Jamision - With the correct tools, and some room to work in, making a 90 degree bend is fine. But working in the cramped area under the dash usually results in the inexperienced "kinking" the brake line. Then you've got to replace that long main line all the back to the rear of the car. Not bad if you have the drivetrain and heating duct out of the car.

Another thing I don't like about the Clark's LM routing is the rear line is exposed in the trunk to objects like luggage, tools, etc.

As you can see from the pics in this post, folks like to route the lines so the master cylinder projects in front of the lines to protect them.

Clarks' is aware of the criticism regarding their line routing on LM cars , but I suppose they have existing kits they have to sell. Hopefully someday they will revise their kit to the way most folks are doing them now.

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Posted by: Jamison82 ()
Date: February 27, 2012 11:36AM

That makes sense thanks

Jamison
1965 Corsa Convertible - Fixer Upper
Glendale, CA

[corvaircenter.com]

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Posted by: gerg ()
Date: January 02, 2017 06:23AM

Has anyone here used the Clark's FC dual kit? I see it comes with 2 pre-bent lines. What else is included?

I presume the rear line is moved to one of these (2) included lines. Is the adapter to join the two included in the kit?

Second presumption is that the original T has the rear line port blocked off (when removed), and the second line (included in the kit) feeds this T for front brakes?

Reason I ask is that I need to replace both front metal lines (from T to hoses) and the hoses.

I don't want to spend that $$ if they are changed again when I go to a dual master setup. I'll likely do it all at one time, but don't want to order extra / duplicate parts.

I see the FC above with dual master and hydraulic clutch. Was that a Clark's kit?

gerg
Monroe, LA


1965 500 Coupe, 140hp / PG, Brown EFI - work in progress
1962 Rampside, 110Hp, factory 4 speed & 3.89 posi


Current cars and other fun stuff -> [gregblakeney.smugmug.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/02/2017 06:28AM by gerg.

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: January 03, 2017 05:59AM

I use a right exiting MC on EM. It's a Dodge application.
I use a left exiting on LM as there's not as much room to get the bend to the original accomplished. I route the lines under the MC to the original area. It's a stock 68-69 MC and I don't use the extra block.
On both I drill the new hole a little to the passenger side and up from the original.
I keep and bend the original line to the rear and use a Tee like 66vairman picture above. I use a washer in the trunk so it looks somewhat like the original.
I like using tube nuts of the proper size rather than brass adapters at the MC.
On FCs the Tee and and fabrication are a foot away from the MC at the front suspension crossmember.
I keep template lines that I copy.
I did buy kits from the Corvair vendors to begin with. I didn't mind the cost but ended up doing it a little bit different. I don't think it would be a good idea for me to sell kits.

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: January 03, 2017 05:59AM

I use a right exiting MC on EM. It's a Dodge application.
I use a left exiting on LM as there's not as much room to get the bend to the original accomplished. I route the lines under the MC to the original area. It's a stock 68-69 MC and I don't use the extra block.
On both I drill the new hole a little to the passenger side and up from the original.
I keep and bend the original line to the rear and use a Tee like 66vairman picture above. I use a washer in the trunk so it looks somewhat like the original.
I like using tube nuts of the proper size rather than brass adapters at the MC.
On FCs the Tee and and fabrication are a foot away from the MC at the front suspension crossmember.
I keep template lines that I copy.
I did buy kits from the Corvair vendors to begin with. I didn't mind the cost but ended up doing it a little bit different. I don't think it would be a good idea for me to sell kits.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/03/2017 06:00AM by JimBrandberg.

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Posted by: BobV66Vair ()
Date: January 03, 2017 09:42AM

I could do the research but with so many experienced people here, why. Does anyone know if the Clarks kit includes a coupler for the rear brake line, under the dash? Will this kit work properly using 4-wheel disc brakes? I recall that disc brakes require more fluid movement to operate. Maybe not. Also, what about the lines, should all lines be replaced with larger lines for the dual master and 4-wheel disc setup? I would also like to install an adjustable proportioning valve so my whole setup may need to be custom anyway.

Thanks,
Bob V

Bob Vinnacombe
Sandy, Oregon
1965 Corsa 140 stock
1966 Monza Soon to be race car
1968 Monza Parts for now

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Posted by: Chi2 ()
Date: January 03, 2017 10:40AM

Hi Gerg,

My experience with the Clark's FC dual master cylinder kit was mixed. I installed it on my 1961 Rampside (since sold). On the one hand the kit went in without any issues and everything was high quality (as usual from Clark's). On the other hand, the brake pedal feel went from average to really hard/stiff after the install. I had a very experienced mechanic properly bleed the system, had new brake cylinders, shoes, etc. I haven't heard a lot of FC owners complain about this, but personally I didn't like how much pressure was needed to stop after the dual MC was installed. The truck stopped fine (once I sorted out the brake shoes- but that was a separate issue) and I could lock the wheels with enough pressure, etc., however, the "feel" I have with a stock single MC in my 1964 van was, for me, a better fit.

I am struggling with the desire to upgrade my van, but I don't want to loose the good pedal feel I have now (with a stock single MC). It might have been my Rampy b/c I have not heard this as a general reaction to the kit. Just my 2cents- YMMV.


gerg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Has anyone here used the Clark's FC dual kit? I
> see it comes with 2 pre-bent lines. What else is
> included?
>
> I presume the rear line is moved to one of these
> (2) included lines. Is the adapter to join the two
> included in the kit?
>
> Second presumption is that the original T has the
> rear line port blocked off (when removed), and the
> second line (included in the kit) feeds this T for
> front brakes?
>
> Reason I ask is that I need to replace both front
> metal lines (from T to hoses) and the hoses.
>
> I don't want to spend that $$ if they are changed
> again when I go to a dual master setup. I'll
> likely do it all at one time, but don't want to
> order extra / duplicate parts.
>
> I see the FC above with dual master and hydraulic
> clutch. Was that a Clark's kit?

Jon
Enrolled in the Culver City Automotive School of Hard Knocks
============================================================
Member of South Coast Corsa
-1964 Greenbrier "The Dog Hauler" Rustoleum Charmer 110hp/4sp/.030 over/Pertronics I/Isky 270 Cam
-1962 Monza Club Coupe "Shaken, not stirred" Tuxedo Black with Red Interior 140hp/4sp/Pertronics I/Clark's 260 Cam

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Posted by: gerg ()
Date: January 03, 2017 10:40AM

I had the same type of question. I believe they say 'all adapters parts included' but I am too curious for a generic statement like that.

As far as discs go, I believe you want to be sure there is no residual valve in place (used by drum brakes) so that the calipers can relax when you let off the pedal. I had this issue on a few VWs converted to from discs. POs left valves in place and front brakes dragged.

gerg
Monroe, LA


1965 500 Coupe, 140hp / PG, Brown EFI - work in progress
1962 Rampside, 110Hp, factory 4 speed & 3.89 posi


Current cars and other fun stuff -> [gregblakeney.smugmug.com]

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Re: Dual master cylinder conversion
Posted by: gerg ()
Date: January 03, 2017 10:43AM

Thanks Jon!!

I had a very similar experience with my '60 VW singlecab.

I believe it was more a statement of 4 wheel disc than dual master cylinder. I felt like it took more pressure to stop with the discs than I liked, and I could clearly remember being able to damn near lock up the old drum/drum config.

Interesting that you seem to have had the same experience!

Greg


Chi2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hi Gerg,
>
> My experience with the Clark's FC dual master
> cylinder kit was mixed. I installed it on my 1961
> Rampside (since sold). On the one hand the kit
> went in without any issues and everything was high
> quality (as usual from Clark's). On the other
> hand, the brake pedal feel went from average to
> really hard/stiff after the install. . . .
>
> I am struggling with the desire to upgrade my van,
> but I don't want to loose the good pedal feel I
> have now (with a stock single MC). It might have
> been my Rampy b/c I have not heard this as a
> general reaction to the kit. Just my 2cents- YMMV.

gerg
Monroe, LA


1965 500 Coupe, 140hp / PG, Brown EFI - work in progress
1962 Rampside, 110Hp, factory 4 speed & 3.89 posi


Current cars and other fun stuff -> [gregblakeney.smugmug.com]

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