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Re: e fan
Posted by: Richard ()
Date: February 21, 2012 06:23PM

onedragonwarrior you should include the tin that goes on the ends of the cylinders. You must also have the tin that snaps on under the cylinders.

[www.corvair.com]
In Clark's catalog it is #3, 13, 5 and 10. # 5 tin is between cyl #2 and the oil cooler.
Matt used to have a drawing on his web page for enclosing the oil cool, but I couldn't find it. Here is Bryan Blackwell's. Oil Cooler Cover

#3 and #13 on a 1960 car is just a flat piece of tin, because the car had a gas heater. The later pieces with air heaters are a couple of pieces spot welded together to fit the 4" hoses. They are bigger and heavy so you may want to make your own as the early pieces are harder to find.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/21/2012 06:31PM by Richard.

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Re: e fan
Posted by: Mel Francis ()
Date: February 21, 2012 06:26PM

A true test of this fan setup would certainly be on a regular Corvair, with no special duct to the engine-fan intake. That's the vehicle that would yield data useful to others.

I HAVE read Warren's account of his ducted cooling system and it occurred to me, that all he was missing was an electric motor to drive his fan during the slower caution laps.

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Re: e fan
Posted by: onedragonwarrior ()
Date: February 21, 2012 06:34PM

Richard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> onedragonwarrior you should include the tin that
> goes on the ends of the cylinders. You must also
> have the tin that snaps on under the cylinders.
>
> [www.corvair.com]
> ion=goto&catalog=SPECIALTY§ion=USED&page=USED-
> 7
> In Clark's catalog it is #3, 13, 5 and 10. # 5 tin
> is between cyl #2 and the oil cooler.
> Matt used to have a drawing on his web page for
> enclosing the oil cool, but I couldn't find it.
> Here is Bryan Blackwell's. Oil Cooler Cover
>
> #3 and #13 on a 1960 car is just a flat piece of
> tin, because the car had a gas heater. The later
> pieces with air heaters are a couple of pieces
> spot welded together to fit the 4" hoses. They are
> bigger and heavy so you may want to make your own
> as the early pieces are harder to find. i will not be running a heater, this is in a open rail buggy

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Re: e fan
Posted by: onedragonwarrior ()
Date: February 22, 2012 12:11AM

ok, i have come to the conclusion that ( note - my first corvair engine ) after painting all the block, heads, tubes and etc. that it was a complete waste of time and money, after putting on the shrouds it is all covered up, sighhhhh, o-well aleast i know what it looks like even if nobody else see's it lol, just a little disipointed that no one will see the pretty work and detail on the eng. someone needs to figure out a way to be able to run a corvaire eng without any shrouds and not burn it up lol

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Re: e fan
Posted by: Scott V ()
Date: February 22, 2012 12:15AM

onedragonwarrior Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> someone needs to figure out
> a way to be able to run a corvaire eng without any
> shrouds and not burn it up lol

run it on methanol & run it short distances. gg

-Scott V.

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Re: e fan
Posted by: flashpoint ()
Date: February 22, 2012 01:42AM

run it on alcohol it will run all day but you'd need a much bigger fuel tank!

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Re: e fan
Posted by: Mountain Pilot ()
Date: February 22, 2012 03:59AM

I may be all wet, BUT remember that the engine block, valve covers, oil pan, well every part of the engine radiates heat.....

Rougher the part the greater heat it will dissipate. Polish it and your heat dissipation will greatly drop.

Paint will act like an heat insulator. If you got to paint it then a flat black is best, gloss again will drop the heat loss... Black paint radiates heat best of all the colors. Flat is far better than gloss paint.

There is a high carbon content flat black that is used on brass radiators that is said to be better than just the brass itself.

On a water cooled engine ( aka: water pumpers here ) the engine block and associated parts will radiate as much heat as the radiator itself.

One may ask why we put on the finned aluminum pans, valve covers etc. on our Corvair engines?

The reason I went through this explanation is if you polish and paint your engine, it may look great but will not cool as the factory desired it to...

They had reasons not to paint all these items. What is your reason?confused smiley

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Re: e fan
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: February 22, 2012 04:25AM

Talked to Kieth from corvair specialties today on his street efan;he used an early fan for the first ones, they were too heavy but cooled fine. One of his customers got no higher than 375 head temps. He has switched to a late fan till he gets a lightweight aluminum fan like the early, which will weigh in at less than 1/2 pound, the early weighs 3-1/2 pounds. Late fan is working fine according to his customers. He has sold half a dozen so far(?)

the early fan moved quite a bit of air: he sealed the engine compartment completely and only let air out where the oil cooler would be and just made a boxed duct and measured 4596 cfm @ 4 psi, air speed was 63 mph. I may have gotten some numbers wrong so, lets hope he chimes in. He used the early fan for this test. How accurate those numbers are, I don't really know.

He's getting the early fans repro'd now, and should have them for testing in a couple weeks, and tested and available by end of April. Hasn't had problems with electric motor cooling, it is rated at 1/5 hp.and spins at 3200 rpm.

So, if the fan will move the 2650 cfm that he has listed on his website, and it is a Corvair fan, it should be able to cool sufficiently at speeds that most of us keep our cars at, providing the electric motor holds up.

His off road fan, which is a spal fan, uses a diverter to aid in air flow, and also uses a bigger, fan forced oil cooler with a deeper oil pan and extra remote filter for more oil capacity.

I think the street version would certainly benefit from ducting the inlet air from outside the engine compartment.

hope this helps a little, and hope he chimes in soon.

Rocco

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Re: e fan
Posted by: Scott V ()
Date: February 22, 2012 04:54AM

zarfnober Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> boxed duct and measured 4596 cfm @ 4 psi, air
> speed was 63 mph. I may have gotten some numbers
> wrong so, lets hope he chimes in. He used the
> early fan for this test. How accurate those
> numbers are, I don't really know.

i also hope he chimes in cuz 4596 cfm @ 4 psi - you could use that for a big turbocharger.

-Scott V.

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Re: e fan
Posted by: Scott V ()
Date: February 22, 2012 10:14AM

zarfnober Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> He's getting the early fans repro'd now, and
> should have them for testing in a couple weeks,
> and tested and available by end of April. Hasn't
> had problems with electric motor cooling, it is
> rated at 1/5 hp.and spins at 3200 rpm.

looking @ the gm tests - the early fan needs about 1 hp @ about 3200 fan rpm.

is it possible that the belt takes 0.8hp & the fan only takes 0.2hp? seems like that would be the only way to get done w/a electric motor that is 1/5hp.

-Scott V.

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Re: e fan
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: February 22, 2012 03:28PM

Let's not forget that the stock belt also has to turn an alternator, idler pulley and then the fan and takes 2 180 turns, 2 90 turns and twists 90 4 times. Lots of weight on the alt and drag on 4 separate bearings and 4 pulley surfaces. Not exactly efficient. The high cfm number, keep in mind, was at the oil cooler opening, a small box where the cooler should be, with everything else sealed off. I don't believe anyone would think that it will deliver that over the heads and out the damper doors and heater ducts. He claims 2650 cfm.

Always keep in mind that the stock fan works and no one forces anyone to buy or try anything. If, and it's an if, the motor will spin the fan at 3200 rpm, this setup should work under average conditions.

Rocco

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Re: e fan
Posted by: Jamison82 ()
Date: February 22, 2012 03:35PM

After all the trouble how much horse power do you gain from an a fan?

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Re: e fan
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: February 22, 2012 04:24PM

Old tests showed 26 hp @ 6000rpm, as I recall, from the stock fan.

Rocco

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Re: e fan
Posted by: Jamison82 ()
Date: February 22, 2012 04:33PM

That's appealing. I would imagine it becoming very popular if some offered a reliable bolt on kit.

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Re: e fan
Posted by: Hex173t ()
Date: February 22, 2012 04:50PM

zarfnober Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Old tests showed 26 hp @ 6000rpm, as I recall,
> from the stock fan.
>
> Rocco

I've read this too, but suddenly I've become sceptical. I think it's safe to say that the amount of power required to move the amount of air the stock fan would move using engine power would be close to that of electric power using the same fan.

So 26 HP equalls 19396 watts. Electric motor driven, it will need 1385 amps at 14 volts for that power. No way.

So either electric driven stock fans are insufficient at high engine speeds/power (this can't be true, the guy above actually did it) or the 26 horse figure is too high. I think the latter.

Bill

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Re: e fan
Posted by: Spectre ()
Date: February 22, 2012 04:50PM

You wouldn't gain all the HP back though. The alternator will require more HP to supply the needed power for the fan motor.

David Clamp


1965 Corsa convertible - 140 4spd/3.55/AM-FM

2013 Mustang GT convertible - 5.0, 6spd auto

2003 Miata SE - 6spd manual (wife's toy)

"Victory is mine!" - SG

Warner Robins, GA (15 miles south of Macon)

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Re: e fan
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: February 22, 2012 05:47PM

The fan motor draws 22 amps and will certainly use some power when running. Every car loses some power with each press of the on button for any accessory. Setup requires a minimum 75 amp alternator.

Look at the Mustang performance aftermarket for the 80's-90's cars, they all sell underdrive accessory pulleys to save power. Granted, they have more accessories, but the Vair belt system is not efficient.

Rocco

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Re: e fan
Posted by: Scott V ()
Date: February 22, 2012 06:37PM

to help clear up things - the hp needed for the stock cooling system changes w/engine rpm.

the stock cooling system needs about 27hp @ 6000 engine rpm. @ 2000 engine rpm the fan is spinning about 3200 rpm. @ that speed the stock cooling system uses about 1hp to move the air.

as i asked - is it possible that the belt takes 0.8hp & the fan only takes 0.2hp? seems like that would be the only way to get it done w/a electric motor that is 1/5hp.

-Scott V.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 06:40PM by Scott V.

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Re: e fan
Posted by: Richard ()
Date: February 22, 2012 07:24PM

The rest of the performance automotive world is moving towards electric constant speed water pumps. The only resistance with those guys seems to come from the high cost of the name brands.

Electric water pump


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Re: e fan
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: February 22, 2012 07:37PM

And we need an electric water pump because?spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

And you've made a very good point Scott.

Rocco

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