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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: gwydionjhr ()
Date: January 27, 2012 09:02AM

Sammy, I'll double down on what Matt said about NOT replacing the lifters unless absolutely necessary.

I'd recommend a half rocker cover and a mechanics stethescope. Use it to listen to each rocker in turn. If they all sound the same, it's just "normal" and you'll get used to it. Any lifters that are problems will really stand out with the stethescope.

Make sure when you're adjusting them that you give about 2 minutes of run time between each half turn so you can be sure the lifter has properly "self adjusted".

Regards,
Joel Rushworth
1961 Rampside w/Deluxe Scamper Camper
1966 Corsized Cdn Monza Coupe
1967 UV #292
"Kick the Hell out of the Status Quo" - Ed Cole

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: dodge6x6 ()
Date: January 28, 2012 10:38AM

hiya
heres a photo of the resister ive fitted to ign system


also a vid i took today of engine noise in bus with heater ducts open and closed definatly quieter with heater ducts shut,


hope this helps
cheers Peter

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: sammy1972 ()
Date: January 28, 2012 07:47PM

Ok!! Ill take your advice on the lifters! Just curious...how can they damage the camshaft if they are new? I have a new set anyway only $50 so not the end of the world!

A couple of the adjusters are showing a few more threads on the right hand side which is quite noticeable to see but the left hand side they are all pretty much the same.

Peter I think you are dead right, the ticking is just valve train noise coming through the heater channels at the back. Probably doesn't help that the van has no insulation or panels or seats in yet!

New vacuum advance too, and the pinking is still there but not so bad. And only after driving for about 20 minutes. It is no way as bad as before though so I guess just set the timing to 20 degrees or so? Maybe more. At idle the engine sounds happier when the timing is off the right of the 16 degrees mark on the casing...maybe I'll just go with what sounds best!

Oil temp sender installed and reads about 180F most of the time. Double checked this with a thermal imaging camera on the rear oil filter hanger and that said 190F, I guess I need to stick a probe down the filler cap into the oil to double double check! I'd glad I don't have any cooling issues! Oil pressure sender mount on its way...

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 28, 2012 07:55PM

Sammy... keep the initial way below 20!! Try 16....

do not go by sound...





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: sammy1972 ()
Date: January 28, 2012 08:20PM

Ok will try 16!!

Just came across this page which states that a 1965 corvair 110 PG timing should be 24 degrees.... is it incorrect?

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: gwydionjhr ()
Date: January 28, 2012 08:38PM

Yes it is wrong. That is the idle setting for a turbo. The turbos get alot of initial advance because the vac actually RETARDS the timing as the revs go up.

Regards,
Joel Rushworth
1961 Rampside w/Deluxe Scamper Camper
1966 Corsized Cdn Monza Coupe
1967 UV #292
"Kick the Hell out of the Status Quo" - Ed Cole

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: Scott V ()
Date: January 28, 2012 10:16PM

gwydionjhr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The turbos get alot of initial advance
> because the vac actually RETARDS the timing as the
> revs go up.

kind of - but not really.

turbos get 24 btdc cuz they have low compression & no mechanical advance until 4000 or so rpm. the retard is by boost – not rpm. a turbo w/o boost wont get any retard no matter what rpm.

-Scott V.

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: sammy1972 ()
Date: January 30, 2012 03:12PM

Ok so now I've tried the timing everywhere between 12 - 16 degrees and the engine is still pinking under load with the vacuum advance. It sometimes does it without the vacuum advance connected as well!! I have no idea whats going on!

Put a small amount of STP (?) oil treatment in today and some other stuff which apparently helps look after the lifters and free them if they are stuck/dirty.

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: January 30, 2012 03:26PM

It won't hurt to leave the VA disconnected with the hose plugged. Allowing the the pinking to continue will damage the engine. You might ask around to see if anyone has an old distributor machine. That's the best way to ensure the distributor is advancing correctly (compared with specifications in the applicable service manual.)

Aside from the distributor, there are several possibilities: small carburetor jets, flashing or debris blocking airflow to the heads, carbon in the cylinders, recycling of cooling air and probably others. My approach is to bring things back to original specifications one at a time.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
66 Red Monza 2dr 140/4 EFI 60k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
65 Cypress Green Monza 140/4 4dr
65 White 4-dr 110/AC/PG (parts)



19 Tons of parts in boxes

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: sammy1972 ()
Date: January 30, 2012 04:00PM

Thanks Craig. I will have a search around locally.

I am pretty certain that nothing is overheating, oil temp sits around 180 -220 under load. Cylinder head sits around 300F never been above 330.

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: January 30, 2012 04:06PM

Good plan! Note that one cylinder can have air cooling blockage, leading to pinking, while the other five are fat, dumb, and happy. In that case the sensor would not indicate overheating unless it happened to be installed near the malfunctioning cylinder... It's not uncommon to ingest a rag, for example.

Have you considered removing the top cover for cylinder and head.inspection?

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
66 Red Monza 2dr 140/4 EFI 60k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
65 Cypress Green Monza 140/4 4dr
65 White 4-dr 110/AC/PG (parts)



19 Tons of parts in boxes

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: sammy1972 ()
Date: February 22, 2012 03:09PM

UPDATE!: So engine is still pinking under heavy load (when warmed up), otherwise runs great. Have been driving around cautiously to avoid pinking!

I think my oil is cheap nasty oil. I couldn't find any Castrol or Shell 10w-30 oil so had to use some make I had never heard of back when I did the oil change last year. Shell recommends their 15w-40 oil for old cars, shall I give this a go? Here is the UK oil list from shell.

I am going to get hold of a decent mechanic who I am told has worked on corvairs and see if they can find any problems with the carbs/ignition system to sort this annoying pinking out!

Have also built myself a sweet ass exhaust! Pics to follow.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 03:11PM by sammy1972.

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: sammy1972 ()
Date: March 06, 2012 05:49PM

So, have been in touch with an engine management genius here in the UK. I think he runs Webcon.co.uk (Alan Collins). After describing my problem to him and his colleague over the phone he said that there could be a possibility that the piston rings are worn as the knocking (pre ignition) noise only happens when the engine is warm. What he was suggesting is that as the oil warms up and thins it is seeping past the piston rings into the combustion chamber and igniting. This makes sense. Or alternatively down the valve stem bit.

He advised me to pull all the spark plugs out (pictures here). Looks to me (if you compare with this table) that the mixture is just rich? Could a rich mixture cause the engine to knock/ping/detonate on its own? Only when warm?

It does not consume a huge amount of oil. I need to accurately measure this though. As our driveway and road are on a slight hill it makes it hard!

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: gwydionjhr ()
Date: March 06, 2012 06:39PM

Just out of curiosity, any chance you could post some pics of your carbs? I had a similar problem when I got my first 'vair b/c the PO had the vac. advance hooked up to the wrong port. I watched your video (nice slippers btw eye popping smiley ) but couldn't find a shot where I could check this. Do both carbs, so we can check them both out.

Regards,
Joel Rushworth
1961 Rampside w/Deluxe Scamper Camper
1966 Corsized Cdn Monza Coupe
1967 UV #292
"Kick the Hell out of the Status Quo" - Ed Cole

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: vairchet ()
Date: March 06, 2012 07:15PM

Try using vacuum delay valves to help diminish pinging (pinking) from early advance.

These install between distributor vacuum advance and carburetor:

Attachments:
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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: March 06, 2012 07:46PM

Sammy... you do not have that much oil deposits on the plugs... so not a problem.

Those look like cooler heat range plugs of the correct thread depth 1/2" / 12.8 mm.


You are running LEAN.... you need larger mainjets!

These can be purchased.. or you can hand drill [ hold drill bit in fingers] to enlarge.

You find the drill that just slips in the hole.. Then use the next size larger to "ream" the hole. ONLY go thru ONCE... STOP and test drive for 100 miles on a hot day. Unless you have a friend with an exhaust gas analyzer.


I think we already told you to disconnect the VA hose and test??


The Vacuum delay valves Vairchet show are great for Slowing down the onset of Vacuum....but after 3-10 seconds.. it's normal.. I've used them many times.





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: sammy1972 ()
Date: April 20, 2012 11:02AM

Ok so an update! For the summer (as read on here somewhere!) I have taken the bottom pans off the bottom of the motor to disconnect the heating and so the hot air can escape quicker to aid cooling on the hot days. Now when I drive normally I do not get any knocking.

From speaking to my mechanic friend he reckons the oil was overheating, seeping round the piston rings and getting into the combustion chamber(s) causing detonation/pre ignition etc. So now the pans are off the bottom the hot air is escaping quicker and the oil is running cooler. Except from a couple of really hot days when going up hill - it has not knocked at all.

Oil flush - This engine was sitting since 1972 until I put it in my van. What is the best advice in terms of cleaning dirty deposits inside the engine? I don't have any problems, just trying to look after it!

I am shortly going to fit a large external oil cooler and PG cooler (any advice on these?) to aid cooling even more.

Going to do a cylinder leakage test at some point in the next few weeks to see if the piston rings or valve seats are worn.

Thanks all!

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: robinblyth ()
Date: April 21, 2012 09:45PM

Hi sam, i am in the uk and have a 61 corvair greeny, where abouts are you, may be worth tieing up for ordering parts
Cheers robin

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 22, 2012 12:34AM

sammy1972 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> From speaking to my mechanic friend he reckons the
> oil was overheating, seeping round the piston
> rings and getting into the combustion chamber(s)
> causing detonation/pre ignition etc. So now the
> pans are off the bottom the hot air is escaping
> quicker and the oil is running cooler. Except from
> a couple of really hot days when going up hill -
> it has not knocked at all.

Not the oil... the heads.. you've got it taken care of now..




>
> Oil flush - This engine was sitting since 1972
> until I put it in my van. What is the best advice
> in terms of cleaning dirty deposits inside the
> engine? I don't have any problems, just trying to
> look after it!

Any good engine fluush is fine.... SeaFoam, Marvel Mystery Oil, Berrymans.. if you can get them..

otherwise just 1 qt of any ATF... drive for 30 minutes and change the oil and filter...

With modern oils.. you'll never need to do it again..




>
> I am shortly going to fit a large external oil
> cooler and PG cooler (any advice on these?) to aid
> cooling even more.
>

You shouldn't need either in Britain. After you do it make sure it warms up adequately!





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: dodge6x6 ()
Date: April 23, 2012 10:42AM

hiya Sammy

are you going to stanford hall next month, i will be there with mine in the
early bay line up, would be nice to meet up and compair notes

cheers Pete

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