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65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: sammy1972 ()
Date: January 19, 2012 12:51PM

Hi there, have read many topics on here which has helped me out with my corvair powered vw van conversion in the UK - there's a lot of knowledge going on in this forum so thanks for all the helpful topics! Anyway this is my first post, basically have pretty much finished my corvair installation in my bus. It has an MOT and insurance here in the UK so its road legal etc. The engine has recently started making two different noises. I have driven about 100 miles in it since MOT then it started making these noises, I put some redex in to try and burn out the carbon deposits but it has made the noises worse! Here's a link to a video I've just done where you can hear the noises. If anybody could help me diagnose these that would be much appreciated! The first noise is a sort of ticking which gets slightly louder as the engine warms up - I am not too worried about this as it is not so bad but maybe it is?! The second noise sounds like pinking but it only happens when the engine is up to temperature (about 300f) and under load/in gear. It doesnt make the noise in neutral.

First noise is clearest about 0:45 into the video.
Second noise is clearest about 5:50 and then 7:20 on.

VIDEO LINK

Thanks in advance! Sam

**If you'd like to see some pictures of the van you can find them on my Facebook!

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: Scott V ()
Date: January 19, 2012 01:23PM

nice looking van - from what is seen on the inside. :-)

the pinking noise under load is spark knock/detonation. thats real bad for the engine & will cause broken pistons/piston rings/hammered bearings/etc. reduce your ignition timeing and/or put higher octane petrol in it.

the ticking is probably a lifter/valve adjustment as it gets louder as the engine warms up.

-Scott V.

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: sammy1972 ()
Date: January 19, 2012 01:59PM

Thanks Scott!

The timing is set to 12 degrees...which way shall I try it? I always use the Super Unleaded fuels here in the UK! I think it is 98 octane and is usually £1.43 per litre!

Is it easy to adjust valves/lifters? I took one rocker cover off yesterday and with the engine running loosened each adjuster till it ticked then tightened till it didnt then added 1/2 turn like this guy!

Is it easy to get the hydraulic lifters out?

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: January 19, 2012 04:55PM

Do you know what engine is installed in your bus? 80hp? 102hp? 110hp?

It will be instructive to know the distributor number (stamped on the perimeter of the bowl - read with a mirror usually). Some distributors are curved for 12 degrees initial timing, others 4-24 degrees initial timing.

If the initial timing is matched with the distributor, the knocking (pinking) may be caused by actual overheating. Rodents often build nests under the top shroud and many converters neglect the engine air flow, allowing hot air from the bottom to recycle to the cooling air intake. This is akin to running a water pumper without coolant and leads to overheating.

Removing lifters is not "easy", but rather "medium". The rocker arms, push rods, and pushrod tubes must be removed to access the lifter. This process is performed one cylinder at a time to allow a giver pair of rocker stands to be removed, replaced, and retorqued without disturbing the cylinder head torque. The rocker stands must be removed because they retain the pushrod tubes.

Can you find the engine code (on block forward of the oil pressure sender) and distributor number (on the bowl perimeter) and report back?

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
66 Red Monza 2dr 140/4 EFI 60k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
65 Cypress Green Monza 140/4 4dr
65 White 4-dr 110/AC/PG (parts)



19 Tons of parts in boxes

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: sammy1972 ()
Date: January 19, 2012 05:55PM

Thanks for your advice! Sorry should have put engine code: II217RH. 1965 110 PG. Code on the distributor (stamped into the metal) 1110319 5M 8.

(On the side there is a little rubber cover which covers part of the vacuum advance code on that was 1963610)

I will take the top cover off tomorrow and check for sucked in debris and then take the lifters out in turn and check them.

Sam

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: January 19, 2012 06:07PM

RH & 319 & 12-14 degrees initial are all correct and matching, provided no one has altered the distributor. The advance unit should be a 217, not a 610. You can disconnect and plug the vacuum hose and then check for spark knock (pinking).

On that note... please verify that the advance unit is plugged into the vertical port on the carburetor (ported vacuum). The horizontal port is manifold vacuum and will over-advance the spark. The horizontal ports go to the choke pull-offs and the left-side vertical port should be capped.

I suggest leaving the valve tick be for the moment; it has no bearing on the overheating and I'd make that your priority. Don't forget to check the oil cooler for clean fins when you have the top cover off.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
66 Red Monza 2dr 140/4 EFI 60k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
65 Cypress Green Monza 140/4 4dr
65 White 4-dr 110/AC/PG (parts)



19 Tons of parts in boxes

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: Richard ()
Date: January 19, 2012 06:58PM

If all the lifters adjusted just like the ones Rafee demonstrated, then adjust all of them and then LEAVE THEM ALONE. Rafee adjusted 1/4 turn below zero lash. If you went 1/2 turn, that is fine, just do the other side of the engine as well. 1/4 turn could give a nuisance rattle at start-up on some engines, but nothing more serious.

I couldn't really tell anything from the audio in that video. Listening to the sounds echoing and amplified by the sheetmetal inside a closed box will tell you nothing.
What I could hear sounded more like normal engine vibration being transmitted through your homemade motor mounts. Powerbraking the engine will twist the engine over tightening up the mounts and may even cause it to be hitting something.

If you want to listen for noises, get a stethoscope or a long wood dowel.
Leave the lifters alone.
If the lifters adjusted just like Rafee's, then there is no problem there.

If you think it is overheating, then close up some of the holes in the shroud. Even the original VW engine had shrouds that sealed off the engine compartment from the underneath side of the engine.
There is a hole in your tin below the distributor that needs closed up.
In your other engine video, the winter/summer plate by the oil cooler is missing.
Your engine tin has an opening on the right-front for a 3" flex hose that would have connected to the Corvair heater box. Be sure that hole is closed up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2012 07:00PM by Richard.

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: Gregory_Miller ()
Date: January 19, 2012 09:52PM

He has sealed up the engine pretty well... been following his build over on Corvair Forum, he's been posting there for quite a while. I'd retard the timing slightly and see what it does under load, and yes, double-check where the VA hose is plugged into the carb base.

Greg Miller
Eugene, Oregon

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: sammy1972 ()
Date: January 20, 2012 03:52PM

Ok so progress today, thanks for your help guys! So the vacuum advance and choke connections are correctly plugged. Sure enough I disconnected the vacuum advance to the distributor and plugged it, went for a drive and sure enough the knocking noise under load had gone! So I take it I have the wrong advance unit on the distributor? (thanks Craig!)

I don't think the engine is overheating as I have a decent temp sensor on the head to a digital unit which says 280-315F whilst driving. The oil might be however...how do I remove the top cover to check for debris?

Richard - I don't think it is overheating but removing the top cover will tell me if the oil is...also the engine mounts were all done by a pro and with lots of carpets/mats in the back it is very quiet!!

Greg - I think you might have mistaken me for somebody else! I have not posted else where! My sealing around the engine is not great but have not worried too much about this at the moment as it is pretty cold here at the moment!

History of the engine (brief): Bought from Marty Katz of LS Corvair parts at the beginning of 2011. Mileage of the engine was approx 53000 from new. Matching powerglide (never been split). Car had been sitting since 1972 til Marty started it towards the eng of 2010 to check if it was any good before sending. He reported it was a good engine but with a noisy lifter (cant remember which one he said), and no other problems. When the engine arrived I stuck a battery on it and it started straight away with no problem starting. It then sat from feb 2011 til Nov 2011 as I was busy with work and travelling. Then got my act together in December bought a load of new bits (spark plugs, coil etc...) stuck them all on...oil & filter change etc...and runs great. But never had many long runs which is when I discovered the knocking (now stopped by removing vacuum advance) as the engine got up to 300F. This then made me notice the ticking noise which may or may not have been there to start with! So maybe my oil is overheating? Its a great engine though and the transmission is brilliant.

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: dodge6x6 ()
Date: January 23, 2012 08:40PM

hiya Sammy1972, like the bus, mine has a external oil cooler and oil filter system,oil cooler is mounted to side of engine bay with holes cut out, and i fited scobbie bonnet scoops to cover up, what oil grade are you useing,
if you have a cooling problem might be a idea to check the cylinder fins,
i had a slight problem with mine as this photo shows lol



theses a 3 inch hole in top cover (black fitting in this photo needs closing on a vw as not needed)


ive sealed engine in bay just made my own pannels up its not to bad made ones from heads outwards then ones from sides bent down with a pop top seal onto other ones, back piece at tank is just some alluminium pannel i made to fit
hope this helps
Peter 1970 corvair powered vw microbus in UK

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: Gregory_Miller ()
Date: January 23, 2012 10:46PM

sammy1972 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


>
> Greg - I think you might have mistaken me for
> somebody else! I have not posted else where! My
> sealing around the engine is not great but have
> not worried too much about this at the moment as
> it is pretty cold here at the moment!
>
I mixed you up with Dodge6x6...sorry! Didn't realize there was more than 1 VW microbus in UK with Vair power!

Greg Miller
Eugene, Oregon

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: dodge6x6 ()
Date: January 23, 2012 11:31PM

Gregory_Miller Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> sammy1972 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
>
> >
> > Greg - I think you might have mistaken me for
> > somebody else! I have not posted else where! My
> > sealing around the engine is not great but have
> > not worried too much about this at the moment
> as
> > it is pretty cold here at the moment!
> >
> I mixed you up with Dodge6x6...sorry! Didn't
> realize there was more than 1 VW microbus in UK
> with Vair power!


hi Greg
this is now the third including mine i know of,(posibly one more) other one is race tuned and does a 1/4mile in 17.3 seconds in a fully loaded camper!!

cheers Peter

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: sammy1972 ()
Date: January 24, 2012 05:31PM

Haha no worries Greg!! I believe there are possibly 5 corvair vw buses in the UK...

Anyways...I didn't take the complete top off the engine but there is a small panel on the top of the oil cooler which I removed and the oil cooler fins were very clean and free from dirt and so were the cylinder fins I could see.

Pictures

Today I drove down to Bournemouth and back about a 200 mile trip! And the bus made it there and back no problem! I need to re-adjust the accelerator cable as it only pulls it through about half way so wasn't getting enough power up the hills! In terms of temps, the PG temperature sensor (which I don't know how accurate it is as it is not mounted inline with the cooler as I don't have one!) was saying 230F pretty much the whole time. Cylinder head temp was 300F (on the flat) 330F (doing some work), still haven't mounted oil temp and oil pressure gauges as the useless engineering company I am using to build the mounts keep delaying me. Are these temps normal? What should they be?

Also I drove the whole way there and back with the vacuum advance disconnected as I still need to order in the correct unit!! So it only did about 20mpg. I would imagine it may run cooler and more efficiently when the new vacuum advance is fitted.

Ticking noise got louder as the journey progressed, VIDEO HERE I wonder if it is the lifters as the engine was sat for so long?

Pete- your van looks cool! How are you finding the corvair motor? Also I couldn't quite make sense of the wiring you were describing in a previous thread relating to the voltage regulator. Pins 'F' '2' '3' I believe are connected to the right places but '4' do you just connect this to the ignition (ive just put mine on the +ve of the coil)?

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: shomeyrwit ()
Date: January 24, 2012 05:49PM

I have had luck with putting a quart of diesel in the crankcase and running for 10 or so min (start with engine warm, dont drive it) then draining and changeing the oil,,, this quieted the noisy lifter on my 95hp ,,, also worked wonders for cleaning out the neglected engine of a F150 I recently bought,

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 24, 2012 08:38PM

1 Doesn't sound bad to me... the Body is transmitting a lot of noise.. .typical for vans

Temps are Fine...





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: dodge6x6 ()
Date: January 26, 2012 12:29AM

hiya
well looks like we could have a mini convention if there are 5 bus's now in uk lol,
finding bus goes very well,put about 600mile on so far and out most weekends in it when i can, must say mine has tappy noise even after adjusting a couple of times, but in the end have put it down to direct air feed up the heater pipes makeing it sound lowder than it is, if i shut the feed off to the dash it quietens it down a lot,
where abouts in uk are you from,im baised in Coventry.
have you been on the early bay forum, ive been posting on there as well, theres some photos on my thread there of the late bay with the twin tripple webbers and porsch fan if you like my engine bay you'll love his lol
as for the wireing if your is charging ok i wouldnt worry, i was just having a bit of fun trying to sort mine out, havnt had a problem with mine up till now will see what happens when i start puting radio ect in,
if your near to the midlands theres a vw run being organised on the 5th to nr redditch, look on events list in earlybay looking to take mine to it, would be good if your near enought to meet up and compair notes

cheers Peter

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 26, 2012 12:50AM

The Hot Bus in the UK..





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: sammy1972 ()
Date: January 26, 2012 11:47PM

Cool man! Yeah I live in Esher, Surrey. I agree, I think its just noise from the engine coming through the heater channels as you cant really hear the tapping on the outside. To be safe though I have ordered a new complete set of lifters!

Im just getting everything working first as Im using the van daily! The engine bay is pretty dirty but everything is working! I think its charging...what makes me think that somethings not right is that the lights pulse like every second or so in time with the clicking of the voltage reg. Its pretty annoying! Pin 4 on the voltage reg is what i think is wrong...how is yours wired?

Im working on the 5th which sucks. But definitely will be at volksworld in march as its only up the road! I occasionally go on the volksworld forum but nowhere else! Only found this forum to see if i could sus my weird engine noises!

Hopefully the new lifters and vacuum advance unit will arrive soon then I can update and see if the pinking noise goes!

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 27, 2012 12:54AM

Sammy.. pleas do not change lifters unless absolutely certain... you could flatten a cam lobe!! Better to live with the small tick...

Our FAQ's sticky...at the top of the message list!! Has a wiring diagram for Alternators..





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: 65' Corvair Engine Tapping/Knocking noise, help!!! Corvair powered VW Camper in the UK.
Posted by: dodge6x6 ()
Date: January 27, 2012 08:21AM

Hi Sammy
Im just getting everything working first as Im using the van daily! The engine bay is pretty dirty but everything is working! I think its charging...what makes me think that somethings not right is that the lights pulse like every second or so in time with the clicking of the voltage reg. Its pretty annoying! Pin 4 on the voltage reg is what i think is wrong...how is yours wired?

ive fitted a resistor in parrallel to ign wire from ign, this cured problems i was having with mine ,ive run no 4 wire to origional bus wiring,and fitted the resister under the dash, light is dimm with engine off and ign on, but goes out and stays out with engine running, check what your getting voltage wise at tick over and above tick over, but if you havent had a flat battery yet it will be charging

cheers Peter

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