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Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: danyarger ()
Date: January 01, 2012 06:52PM

RECENTLY WHILE DRIVING TO WORK IN THE 62 THERE WAS A LOUD CLUNK THEN GRINDING NOISE WHILE ONLY IN GEAR FOR THE NEXT 25 MILES. FINALLY COMING HOME IT FELT LIKE THE WHEEL LOCKED UP AND I HAD IT TOWED. I HAD TO REALLY FORCE IT OFF THE TOW TRUCK. IT WOULDN'T ROLL OFF BY ITSELF. THE R\R WHEEL SEEMS UNABLE TO COME OFF EVEN AFTER WHACKING IT HARD WHICH MAKES IT DIFFICULT TO CHECK THE WHEEL BEARING. MY QUESTION IS HOW TO I DIFFERENTIATE A PROBLEM BETWEEN A WHEEL BEARING, A THROW OUT BEARING, A DIFFERENTIAL PROBLEM OR A DIFFERENTIAL BEARING? BTW I GOT ROBBED BY GUN POINT ON X-MAS MORNING AND THEY STOLE MY LAPTOP SO I HAVE TO WRITE ON A TABLET COMPUTER WHICH IS A BIT WEIRD.

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 01, 2012 07:15PM

Bummer!! Bad way to end the year!!


do you mean the Wheel?. or the brake drum?





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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: January 01, 2012 07:22PM

Sounds like a transaxle problem. I would pull the axles (once you get that stuck wheel off) and see what turns and what doesn't. Could even be the brakes. Definitely not the throwout bearing since that's only in play when the clutch pedal is depressed. Bummer about getting your laptop stolen but better that than getting sent to the hospital or worse. sad smiley

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: bill darcy ()
Date: January 01, 2012 07:26PM

Hate when that happens.My Red 64 cp did that last winter and it turned out to be a broken spider gear and shaft.Since I was only a few blocks from home I managed to limp it home but it took a LOT of throttle to get it to move and it made some really nasty noises.You didn't mention whether its a posi or open but I would suspect diff problem either way.Once you get the axle out you'll know for sure.

In the Hub City, Belen NM

Lead from behind..... get left in the dust
"I have not failed I've just found ten thousand ways that won't work" Thomas Edison

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: danyarger ()
Date: January 01, 2012 07:38PM

The wheel itself is seized to the brake drum. The wheels are freshly painted which may have something to do with it being stuck. Anyway the robber hit me in the ear with the handle of his handgun so I hit him back with the laptop then ran like hell with a bloody and bruised ear. I know that I should be able to see what's going on in the differential if I take the cover off. Before all this I was thinking about the possibility of one of those asbestos pads on the cluth disc breaking off and grinding against the bellhousing. I suppose that would be difficult to diagnose without separating the engine from the trans.

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: danyarger ()
Date: January 01, 2012 07:50PM

Bill, did you replace the transaxle or did you fix it via replacing parts? What did it cost you and did you do the repairs yourself?

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 01, 2012 07:50PM

There are several causes that could go with your description.

How well did it roll onto the tow truck? You say it wouldn't roll on it's own off the truck.

You mention Throw out bearing so I take it this is a manual. Is there any noises as you are letting the clutch out before the car moves? Only after the car moves is there noise?

As was asked earlier, you need the RR wheel and brake drum off to start your investigation, if you are lucky your search will end there. One thing to check, with both wheels off the ground can you turn one and the other turn in the opposite direction? What happens?

Sorry about your misfortune but quit yelling, turn your CAPS off. That is an indication of yelling.

Ken Hand
CORSA Central Division Director
CORSA Treasurer
248 613 8586
[www.corvairmechanic.com]
vairmech@aol.com

[s186.photobucket.com]

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: Johnniespeed ()
Date: January 01, 2012 07:50PM

With the rear wheels off the ground,trans in neutral, does each wheel spin freely as they should ?
If either is siezed, you could disconnect the universal joint and retry to spin the wheel. This should narrow it down to either brake/wheel bearing issue or inside the differential.
If your car wont roll freely in neutral,I think we can dismiss the throwout bearing and clutch facing theories.

John

1962 Rampside
Powered by Injected Vortec 4.3

Sunny Suburban Sparta Michigan.

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: danyarger ()
Date: January 01, 2012 07:56PM

The noise starts after the car is moving. It was loudest in 4th gear

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: danyarger ()
Date: January 01, 2012 08:04PM

I got to go to the autoparts store to get some jackstands providing they are open because today is New Years day. I'll report my findings tonight. Thanks for the help guys.

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 01, 2012 08:21PM

Did the car act sort of like it wanted to be in two gears at once? Did it sort of ratchet or jump at low speeds?

If so, you aren't going to like my answer.

Ken Hand
CORSA Central Division Director
CORSA Treasurer
248 613 8586
[www.corvairmechanic.com]
vairmech@aol.com

[s186.photobucket.com]

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Nose art from a CH-47 in Viet Nam


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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: January 01, 2012 08:34PM

Nothing quite like having a gun pointed at you in the comission of a crime.

Before it starts...if guns are banned only bad guys like this will have guns.

I'm a lifetime NRA member and own many weapons of all types.


Paso Robles CA and Palmtuckey CA-Unsafe At Any Landspeed-Sidewinders (est 1938) CORSA Member-Corsa West-High Desert Corvairs Corvanatic-Ventura County Corvair-Central Coast Corsa-Angel Fan Since 1978...HALO POWER!! So Cal Gas Since 1974 (retired) L/M Landspeed 3L/915 T04B methanol Coupe-65 Corsa-62 Rampside(2)-B&M Blown Mid Engine Funco Sandrail-Next Build L/M ADE/BBC/PG/QC Street Racer-Diesel Streamliner 7.3IDI/C6/GV/9" Dream-1939 Lincoln Zephyr V12-Vehicles in My Possession...12

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: danyarger ()
Date: January 01, 2012 10:04PM

Vairmech no it didn't do any of that. I have the jackstands and drain pan now so I can begin testing today. I just drove the car out of the garage just now and tried forward & reverse at parking lot speed and no noises or issues which is weird because I had to really force it into the garage but I have had both rear wheels off the ground since then (one at a time) and they spun freely. I would be so grateful if this just turns out to be an unusual brake failure. Btw the U joints look fine incase anybody asks.

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: Johnniespeed ()
Date: January 01, 2012 10:20PM

Dan
Hope it was a brake dragging and nothing more. You originally stated there was a clunk and grinding, then wouldnt roll. Did the clunk and grinding stop too ?

John

1962 Rampside
Powered by Injected Vortec 4.3

Sunny Suburban Sparta Michigan.

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: JohnnyCorvair ()
Date: January 02, 2012 12:29AM

i vote for separated shoe that bound up on you, then came loose after you got it home. Hows that for optimism about the new year! Happened to me last year in the RR wheel!

1962 Monza 900 84hp PG

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: danyarger ()
Date: January 02, 2012 07:25AM

I hope johnnycorvair is right. Unfortunatley I didn't get to work on it tonight as I was finding out that my power steering pump in my Nissan Sentra needs replacing. I'll try to diagnose the Corvair tomorrow.

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: Johnniespeed ()
Date: January 03, 2012 03:43AM

Dan
Sentra power steering pumps rarely fail, but at least they are easy to change. Did you find out anything more on your Vair ?

John

1962 Rampside
Powered by Injected Vortec 4.3

Sunny Suburban Sparta Michigan.

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: danyarger ()
Date: January 03, 2012 05:45AM

Yes I did some testing today. First its not a brake problem. Then I checked to see if the axles spin opposite directions and tried this test in neutral and 1rst gear. No problems there. Then I took my mechanics stethescope and listened to the wheel bearing, diff bearings, diff case, and trans case. All sounded a little dry but nothing unusual. I shared my findings with Vegasvair on the phone and he suggested that I should ask here if there's a surefire way to test the wheel bearings. Then we concluded to just put the wheels back on take it for a short test drive and see if it still makes noise. I'm gonna fix the leaks on the trans and diff from the drain plugs and flush and refill the cases & see if any debris comes out. As of right now its still a mystery.

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: Johnniespeed ()
Date: January 03, 2012 11:30AM

The surefire way to listen to wheel bearing is to use a Chassis ear. Clip a chassis ear wireless microphone as near to each rear wheel bearing as you can get, clip the other two microphones on the left and right side front wheel bearings. Drive the car when it is making the noise, listen to each microphone through the four channels of the chassis ear, it will be immediately obvious which microphone is quiet and which makes noise.
Very often when a wheel bearing makes noise, it requires the vehicle weight on the bearing to make noise. Often when a vehicle is lifted on a hoist, the weight is taken off the bearing and the bearing is quiet. Spinning wheels on the hoist and using a stethoscope is not a surefire method and will only find extremely noisey bearings.
Dan use can use the chassis ear clipped onto the sides of the diffential case too to listen to those bearings while driving.

John

1962 Rampside
Powered by Injected Vortec 4.3

Sunny Suburban Sparta Michigan.

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Re: Bad differential, wheel bearing, throw out bearing? How to tell?
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: January 03, 2012 11:57AM

To begin with you seemed pretty sure it was the RR that had a problem.

With that side up pull and push on the tire straight in and out. Any play? How much? There really shouldn't be more than a couple of thousandths. That is just barely enough to feel movement, if you know what to feel for.

It is not to hard to figure out wheel bearings without special tools. Just go for a short drive where you have an open road. At the speed where the noise is loudest, turn left then right in a swerving motion. Do this enough to put pressure on and off all the wheel bearings. If there is a bearing problem then the noise will change sound as you put on and take off pressure.

I won't go into detail right now as to what does what as I want your explanation. Do the first check before driving though, we don't want an axle bearing coming apart while you drive. It isn't pretty on an early.

Ken Hand
CORSA Central Division Director
CORSA Treasurer
248 613 8586
[www.corvairmechanic.com]
vairmech@aol.com

[s186.photobucket.com]

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Nose art from a CH-47 in Viet Nam


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