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Harmonic balancer causing arc
Posted by: pierldj ()
Date: September 12, 2011 09:16PM

I just purchased a 65 Monza vert. HB was bad, so I bought a new one from Rafee and installed it last weekend. I was checking the trans fluid and heard a ticking sound. I followed the sound and noticed an arc between the back of the HB and engine block. I have searched the Internet and have found similar issues with other vehicles that have HBs. No one has a sure fire fix. Some say a loose belt slipping causing static, some say rubber from the HB is touching the block.

On a side note. When I removed the vacuum advance on the distributor in order to replace the HB, the rubber boot was brittle and broke off. The arc seemed to diminish a little when I temporarily put it back...coincidence maybe. Also, there is a wire with spade terminal coming out of the resistor on the side of the coil...it is not attached to anything...seemed odd.

Sorry for the long first post. Any opinions would be welcome.

Dan

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Re: Harmonic balancer causing arc
Posted by: Marco_a_p ()
Date: September 12, 2011 10:06PM

Not a resistor... condenser. For Noise supression..
Fixed mast antenna? AM/FM radio installed?
Should also be one on the voltage regulator.....

Rubber is always rubbing on H/B... it's the H/B Seal. Ran in to the arcing situation once.... I believe it ended up being a lack of ground straps to the body.....

Do what you gotta do to eliminate it.... Acr plus fuel fumes (or any hydrocarbon fumes in engine compartment = fires/flames in the engine compartment that rise up to oil soaked engine lid insulation (if still installed)

Marco
A 2nd Gen Monza Wagon, a 2nd Gen GB 8door, a 2nd Gen (61's were 1st Gen) R/s and a 62nd Gen Turbo coupe..

Hanging out with the scorpions, king snakes, road runners, coyotes and quails In the southern desert of the silver state
Mesquite NV 89024



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/12/2011 10:08PM by Marco_a_p.

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Re: Harmonic balancer causing arc
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: September 12, 2011 10:22PM

Welcome,,I was thinking no ground straps also,,where is it arching to?







1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: Harmonic balancer causing arc
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: September 13, 2011 05:11AM

The static is coming from the outer ring and the rubber bonding the two pieces together. The only way to stop that is to have an anti-static strip internal in the rubber like Dale used to do.

I know where the balancer comes from and I get some of mine from the same source. I don't have a fast answer for the arcing.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Harmonic balancer causing arc
Posted by: Tom Z ()
Date: September 13, 2011 06:42AM

..drill/tap a 'spoke' for #8 self-tapping screw,or go from one of the 3/8-16 holes in the center hub..use a points 'spring-strip' to touch the outer part??

Tom Z,,Rochester NY

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Re: Harmonic balancer causing arc
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: September 13, 2011 06:52AM

You might try changing to a different type of fan belt. Perhaps you are using a die-cut belt instead of the traditional wrapped belt.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
65 Canadian Monza 4dr 110/PG 40k
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Harmonic balancer causing arc
Posted by: corventure Dave ()
Date: September 13, 2011 07:27AM

cnicol hit the nail on the head!!!
It's static from the belt. Some of the import belts will do this.

The resistor on the coil is for electrical noise surppression. It came with a radio kit to help quiet down the buzzzzz. Also as mentioned, the engine has to be properly grounded and the battery has to be grounded to "both" the engine and body.

Corventure Dave

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Re: Harmonic balancer causing arc
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: September 13, 2011 09:57AM

It could be the belt but I would not blame it entirely on a cut belt as opposed to a wrapped belt. Maybe the brand of belt is causing the arc. Reason I say that is, I use cut belts all the time in my cars. I have no static problems or belt throwing up to 6000 RPM, 6500 is a little iffy.

BTW, a little off topic, but, My street car has engine parts from my first race engine and routinely sees 6500 RPM.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

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Re: Harmonic balancer causing arc
Date: September 13, 2011 11:59AM

Dale still does them that way. Just another reason to always use Dale.
Just sayin.

Lon
www.corvairunderground.com
The Home of GoVair-Dale flywheels and distributors.

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Re: Harmonic balancer causing arc
Posted by: MrChips ()
Date: September 13, 2011 04:22PM

I have a youtube video of the arcing in my 2002 Hyundai Accent...

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="[www.youtube.com]; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="[www.youtube.com]; frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The belt wasn't worn, yet, but it started arcing, and did this for several months. Moreso on dry days.


What we had is a basic Van-de-Graff generator.


The insulated outer ring rubbing on the belt as time goes by builds up a static charge.

When new Goodyear belts were installed, no more problem.


If you search around, look for EMI/RFI 'conductive coating' spray, and give the rubber damper ring a couple sprays of that on each side. This will allow the electrons a safer path back to ground (center of HB, as far as they're concerned).

You can also fine 'conductive grease' used by HAM radio folk on their aluminum antennas (NOT the No-al-ox junk), and give that a light smearing, but they will attract dirt over time.

Some folks used to use 'belt dressing', but that stuff is icky over time, and is a constant maintenance nightmare.

Lastly, you can make a spring-loaded 'drain' wire that rubs the outer HB ring, and is attached to the block. This requires maintenance/ adjustment.



If you plan on using eDIS or COP, the problems must be taken care of before you mount a VR sensor close to the outer ring.



Good luck!


Where Santiago and Live Oak Canyon intersect in Orange County, Ca



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/13/2011 04:29PM by MrChips.

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Re: Harmonic balancer causing arc
Posted by: NICKG ()
Date: September 13, 2011 07:10PM

Yup...ya gotta getcha an HB like Dale MFG. rebuilds with an internal grounding spring. This is for balancers that drive V-belts and the internal spring bleeds off static electricity....NickG

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Re: Harmonic balancer causing arc
Posted by: pierldj ()
Date: September 13, 2011 09:00PM

Thanks for all the input. The arc is contained within the small area between the HB and block.

I will start with the belt and ground straps. Worse case, I will remove the HB and spray the inside face with a rubber sealant. If that doesn't work, I will sell the Rafee on eBay and get the Dale.

Odd that when I replaced the rubber boot on the vacuum advance, the arc was minimized.

Dan P.
1965 Monza Convertible
Indianapolis, IN

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