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New Build: Project "Corsa GTP Convertible" (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: September 06, 2011 03:12PM

Ive been dreaming up this project for the last 3 years after the day a club member asked me what I would do different when building a V8 Corvair. I told him I would use a GM supercharged 3800 (L67) instead of that thirsty V8. I spent a good year or so trying to convince him to build such an animal, but then realized I would have to do it myself. So here we are. Ive been collecting pieces and parts and its time to do a little more white board planning and get this thing on track!

Car: 1965 Monza Convertible, I have already restored it, smashed it, and stored it. After searching the area for a lesser damaged car, for now, the Deer Slayer will get the GTP treatment.

Engine: 2002 Pontiac Grand Prix L67 3800 Supercharged V6, 240 HP from the factory, will be over 300 when installed. Engine was pulled out of a babied car that had 120,000 miles on it. Lots of life left in her!

Transmission: 2006 Pontiac G6 6 speed manual (F40) This transmission is brand new and will bolt up to the L67. Clutch, flywheel, etc will have to be engineered as we build.

Brakes: S10 2wd drop spindles and disk brakes up front, some sort of disk brakes out back still to be determined.

Cooling: Front mounted radiator, as small as possible with openings under the bumper like my V8VAIR.

Frame upgrades: I am thinking a semi tubular frame incorporating a somewhat hidden semi roll cage with a roll bar. Mostly to stiffen the car (convertible) and allow me to race/autocross in Corvair/vintage events.



Goals: 25+ MPG on premium pump gas

300+ HP

100% turn key reliability

Good trunk space (front and rear)

Power top with good seals

Good heat and A/C

4 bucket seats (Yes this car will have a backseat...Its not going to be easy but I belive its very do-able)

Rear seats and rear firewall will tilt forward to access front of engine

LED lighting where possible (it is 2011 afterall)

Front mounted battery (help w/ weight distribution)

Stock gas tank

Those of you who have seen my V8VAIR build page should know this is within my reach. We are undergoing a major kitchen remodel in the house, but once that is finished its game on!

_________________________________________
Ryan Counterman (Moderator)
1965 Corsa Kelmark V8 400 HP ///1965 Monza Sedan 110/PG /// Ultimate Corvair Hauler/// Don Eichstaedt's 1965 Corsa Racecar
West Michigan Corvair Club /// 1966 Corsa GTP Convertible Mid Engine 3.8L Supercharged project stalled




Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2020 04:17PM by VairKing.

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: September 06, 2011 03:15PM

The engine. I am not sure how I am going to mate the axles, whether I use the corvair wheel bearing or go to the pontiac time will tell. The engine might have to be clocked towards the rear of the car to clear the back seat. I will make this fit!

This engine makes 240 HP as it sits right now, once the aftermarket exhaust is fabricated and an aftermarket intake fabricated, and the PCM re-flashed to match the 6 speed manual, it will probably make over 300 hp. The leading Grand Prix performance parts place, ZZPerformance, is located right in my home town. They have a dyno and are excited to do some computer tuning!

_________________________________________
Ryan Counterman (Moderator)
1965 Corsa Kelmark V8 400 HP ///1965 Monza Sedan 110/PG /// Ultimate Corvair Hauler/// Don Eichstaedt's 1965 Corsa Racecar
West Michigan Corvair Club /// 1966 Corsa GTP Convertible Mid Engine 3.8L Supercharged project stalled




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2011 03:20PM by VairKing.

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: September 06, 2011 03:18PM

The transmission: This is a 2006 F40 6 speed manual out of a Pontiac G6. One person in the whole internet has swapped this into a Grand Prix and has confirmed the bolt patterns are the same. A flywheel from a 3.8 Camaro will bolt up to the motor, however the clutch and pressure plate have to be custom made or sourced.

The G6 V6 is rated at 240 HP, so I will be pushing a bit too much power into this transmssion, (300 hp) but my car should weigh at least 1000 lbs lighter than the GP so maybe it will survive?

_________________________________________
Ryan Counterman (Moderator)
1965 Corsa Kelmark V8 400 HP ///1965 Monza Sedan 110/PG /// Ultimate Corvair Hauler/// Don Eichstaedt's 1965 Corsa Racecar
West Michigan Corvair Club /// 1966 Corsa GTP Convertible Mid Engine 3.8L Supercharged project stalled

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: September 06, 2011 03:22PM


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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: xb9rumble ()
Date: September 07, 2011 08:21AM

I reminder seeing someone put at F40 in a V6 Grand Am. I would think the V6 Grand Am may be similar to the smaller V6 Grand Prix?

65' Monza 6.0/TH425/C4 front suspension/solid 8.8 rear. Mid engine project.
91' Syclone 6.0/4l80E/pt88 still AWD
92' Typhoon 5.3/4L80E/tc76 still AWD

Livermore, CA

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: xb9rumble ()
Date: September 07, 2011 08:29AM

Here it is [www.grandamgt.com]

65' Monza 6.0/TH425/C4 front suspension/solid 8.8 rear. Mid engine project.
91' Syclone 6.0/4l80E/pt88 still AWD
92' Typhoon 5.3/4L80E/tc76 still AWD

Livermore, CA

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: September 07, 2011 08:32AM

Was a vair at my local welding shop and the guy was doing the same thing,,he welded mounts for the entire engine cradel X frame and mounted the entire drivetrain behind the rear seat,,he used the suspension axels and entire disc hub from the donor car and just locked the steering straight,,never got to see it finished but it looked like it would work great!

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: chanceparker ()
Date: September 07, 2011 10:48AM

I think you'll be pushing it on the durability of the transmission, especially given the torque of a supercharged motor. That would concern me more than the HP.

If you're after 100% turnkey reliability, why not just stick with the auto transaxle that goes with motor?

Also, have you considered the 5.3 V8 and transaxle from a newer Grand Prix or Impala. Since the motor is aluminum, it probably ways within lbs of that supercharged 3800.

Regardless, I'm interested to see how it works out.

Good luck.

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: September 07, 2011 02:33PM

Reason for the F40 manual? I HATE automatic transmissions with a passion. This is my dream car, it HAS to be a manual. I think the V6 will make awesome power and keep my MPGs in check, I bet the damn thing will get over 30 MPG on the highway (considering it will be a lot lighter than a GP and with 6th gear being .62 overdrive ratio and the diff being a 3.55)

I am not really in love with the idea of using the GP struts or cradle. As of right now I am thinking I would be better off just making new engine mounts and supports, and either adapting the CV joints to the U joint and using the Corvair wheel bearings and stock rear torque arms, or custom make new rear torque arms with a modern wheel bearing assy.

The Grand Prix wheelbase is about 6" wider than the Corvair.

_________________________________________
Ryan Counterman (Moderator)
1965 Corsa Kelmark V8 400 HP ///1965 Monza Sedan 110/PG /// Ultimate Corvair Hauler/// Don Eichstaedt's 1965 Corsa Racecar
West Michigan Corvair Club /// 1966 Corsa GTP Convertible Mid Engine 3.8L Supercharged project stalled

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: September 07, 2011 02:40PM

From Wikipedia:

"The F40 is cast in aluminum, and weighs 124 pounds (56.2 kg). It has been certified for up to 295 ft-lb ( 400 Nm) of engine torque."


About the Series II L67:
"Power is up to 240 hp (180 kW) and 280 lb·ft (380 N·m) of torque"


From the factory the trans will handle everything nicely. I am not going to intentionally mod the motor for power, but from what I have seen the intake, exhaust, and tune add power quite easily.

Time will tell!

_________________________________________
Ryan Counterman (Moderator)
1965 Corsa Kelmark V8 400 HP ///1965 Monza Sedan 110/PG /// Ultimate Corvair Hauler/// Don Eichstaedt's 1965 Corsa Racecar
West Michigan Corvair Club /// 1966 Corsa GTP Convertible Mid Engine 3.8L Supercharged project stalled

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: September 08, 2011 03:02PM

A flywheel from a 3.8 Camaro will bolt up to the GP motor and has a starter ring. The stock G6 F40 trans uses a dual mass flywheel, which is very thick, so a spacer or something will have to be created to take up this extra space in the bellhousing. Once I get the motor stripped of that automatic thingy I can get them together and start measuring and get a plan.


With the additional tube framing I will be installing do you guys think I will be able to lose the cocktail shakers? I would love to lose those heavy suckas.

_________________________________________
Ryan Counterman (Moderator)
1965 Corsa Kelmark V8 400 HP ///1965 Monza Sedan 110/PG /// Ultimate Corvair Hauler/// Don Eichstaedt's 1965 Corsa Racecar
West Michigan Corvair Club /// 1966 Corsa GTP Convertible Mid Engine 3.8L Supercharged project stalled




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2019 05:54PM by VairKing.

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: September 08, 2011 04:40PM

Look what I just stumbled across...Thank God for the internet!!!


[www.specclutch.com]


That solves that problem!!!

_________________________________________
Ryan Counterman (Moderator)
1965 Corsa Kelmark V8 400 HP ///1965 Monza Sedan 110/PG /// Ultimate Corvair Hauler/// Don Eichstaedt's 1965 Corsa Racecar
West Michigan Corvair Club /// 1966 Corsa GTP Convertible Mid Engine 3.8L Supercharged project stalled

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: OttawaCorvairGuy ()
Date: September 08, 2011 04:59PM

VairKing Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That combo starter/alternator is awesome.


Ryan,

I read the post before your quote above; about the "combo starter/alternator" and as I was scrolling down to the next post - which is your quote shown above - I said to myself - The alternator/starter combo is awesome. GGG Then I read yours. LOL

Great pick for an engine. thumbs up
That is what I'm putting into UV #256, aka Itchy Feet II. I have had the donnor car, 1996 Old fully loaded, for just over two years now. It only cost me $300 for the entire car. Here is the engine - still in the car. At least you will be able to tune yours. Mine is too old to tune the chip. But I only want it for the torque and extra hp and hopefully better gas mileage.


BTW - Have you heard yours it run?

Do you know about the problem with the gears in the Supercharger?
And some head gaskets too?

If not - check the Superchareger!!!
(Remove the belt and turn the pulley back and forth. If you have play like a u-joint on a driveshaft would when it clunks - R&R your SC.

You can get the kit after market for about $75 or less.
I read up on it in 3800 forum..

I need to do mine.

Best of luck with your project. smileys with beer

Sincerely,

Tony
(Ottawa Area - Canada)

(1) Marie's 1962 Convertible and our 1966 Ultravan #248 (aka Itchy Feet - Long Restoration)
(2) Our 1963 Rampside (Sold 2014) and 1967 Ultravan #256 at Upper Canada Valley car show in 2009.
(UV256 aak Itchy Feet II - corvair power plant came out 2012 - plans with donor for a GM 3.8L FWD conversion, as a gas pusher, in the back of UV256)
(3 & 4) Are some of our 11 Corvair parts cars - to help keep our stuff on the road - hopefully as long as we live. ;-)
(5) Is one of our Wayne 100 boats (Corvair powered) SOLD - August 2018
(6) Nov 14, 2012 Ultravans #362 and #512 arrived. We are getting closer to our goal of having an Ultravan museum.
We now own; UV248, UV256, UV362, UV512, and UV520 will hopefully be here July 2013.
(7) I saved Ultravan #231 from the scarp yard this year. It arrived May 9, 2013 and I plan to flip this one with a rear engine V6.
Anything is for sale at the right price.



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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Date: September 08, 2011 05:22PM

good luck, have fun my back seat is small but still works. yeah I get 25-30 mpg. I am hoping to make to the hershey show next weekend. It is tuff to figure out what set up to with cradle or no cradle. I if I had time and money or someelse's . I would do with out the cradle but make new rear control arm and would be cool to adapt the new style wheel bearing so you could have cv's in out and only have to shorten the shaft. I get a tiny vibration at times and I am sure if is from the u joint. but it not that bad and I can live with it. Well Good luck and have fun

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 08, 2011 05:23PM

Ryan, I would think that once you tie the two ends of the car together..you shouldn't need the shakers any longer.

MODERATOR
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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: September 08, 2011 05:38PM

I heard the motor run and drove the car before it was taken out. Runs great. 120,000 miles on it. I will do the S/C test when I tear the motor out of the cradle.

Supercharged3800, how far did you have to move your rear firewall up? I am hoping to only move the backseat a few inches at most, and compensate with thinner backed bucket seats front and rear. Did you use the entire cradle? Its hard to tell from your videos on youtube. I thought you ditched the cradle and made new motor mounts, but your post above says you used the cradle?

_________________________________________
Ryan Counterman (Moderator)
1965 Corsa Kelmark V8 400 HP ///1965 Monza Sedan 110/PG /// Ultimate Corvair Hauler/// Don Eichstaedt's 1965 Corsa Racecar
West Michigan Corvair Club /// 1966 Corsa GTP Convertible Mid Engine 3.8L Supercharged project stalled

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Date: September 08, 2011 06:37PM

my rear seat back is almost 12" front at the top. yeah no cradle here . cradles are for babies

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: September 11, 2011 05:57PM

I wasnt going to work on this much till I got our kitchen remodel done, but the wife was busy canning salsa from the garden friday night so I couldnt sand my drywall. So I headed off to manland and tore the motor out of the cradle, seperated the automatic tranny, and got the engine up on the engine stand. In a month or so when this kitchen is done I will pull the convertible over into the shop and start tearing it apart. I need to get the automatic tranny up on craigslist and sell that sucka!

_________________________________________
Ryan Counterman (Moderator)
1965 Corsa Kelmark V8 400 HP ///1965 Monza Sedan 110/PG /// Ultimate Corvair Hauler/// Don Eichstaedt's 1965 Corsa Racecar
West Michigan Corvair Club /// 1966 Corsa GTP Convertible Mid Engine 3.8L Supercharged project stalled

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: March 04, 2012 06:30AM

Just an update, last weekend a rust free '66 Corsa was delivered to my shop. The fresh body work and paint job are about a 7 out of 10 in terms of quality, but the lack of rust makes it worth while! All the Corvair goodies are coming out and going into my '65 Sedan, and this super solid body will be used for the midship GTP transplant. First order of business will be to unbolt the brand new convertible top and carefully package and crate it so it can be stored without the mice making a home out of it.


I am going to clean the old Monza convertible up a little bit and try to sell it on Craigslist, if I can't get my minimum dollar I will part it out to help a few people in the local club!

_________________________________________
Ryan Counterman (Moderator)
1965 Corsa Kelmark V8 400 HP ///1965 Monza Sedan 110/PG /// Ultimate Corvair Hauler/// Don Eichstaedt's 1965 Corsa Racecar
West Michigan Corvair Club /// 1966 Corsa GTP Convertible Mid Engine 3.8L Supercharged project stalled

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Re: New Build: Project "Monza GTP" hot smiley (L67, F40, etc.)
Posted by: 4MiloEli ()
Date: March 04, 2012 07:04AM

Ryan, did you get that '66 Corsa from a Caveman we all know and love? cool smiley

Jay Pitchford
65 Corsa convertible
Columbus OH


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