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easiest v8 swap
Posted by: B-Nasty ()
Date: September 04, 2011 05:42PM

I have been researching for 2 weeks and have decided to do a v8 swap in my 64 coupe. I want to keep it as simple as possible as this will not be a race car, it will just be for weekend cruising/car meets.

Now the purpose of this thread is to go over all the obstacles of the swap and Im sure there will be some things brought to my attention that I am unaware of.

To keep it simple I want to use the stock powerglide, differential, suspension, etc.

My biggest obstacle so far is the motor. I want to keep the rear location so I can still have a back seat. Where can I get a reverse rotation gm small block? I have a buddy with a complete 327 that he will sell for 200 but what would it cost to rebuild it in reverse rotation (I can do the labor so all prices will be for just parts). I know ill need a cam, and a RR water pump. what other parts/components are needed to switch rotation?


I haven't completely ruled out a crown conversion but can you still get the kits?
Do crown conversion cars use a reverse rotation motor also?

Is there an adapter/bell housing available to mount the motor to the stock powerglide? (I have access to a cnc machine that could cut adapters from flat alum plating, but im not sure If thats a possibility)

How would the starter mount and would I need s RR starter?

I can weld so motor mounts are not a concern.

I am not concerned about the cooling system, I can fab all that up.

Do I need to change anything for the fuel system?

These are all the obstacles Ive thought of so far. If Ive left anything out please inform me. I know with the help of everyone here I can complete this project.

This is the inspiration for my build: monzilla build

I would like to mimic this setup

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Date: September 04, 2011 05:50PM

Do it the way Chevrolet did.

Sell the Monza.

Buy a Chevy II.

They designed in enough room for an easy V-8 swap and even made dealer kits.

Why ruin another Corvair??

My opinion...



Dan Davis - Seattle ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ 65 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn (my current driver!!)
~ 1964 Monza 'Vert ~ 65 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black int ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4
1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: September 04, 2011 05:54PM

I think the easiest V8 swap is a 4.3 V6.
- Engines are a dime a dozen
- SBC adapters adapt it to either stick or automatic Corvair transaxles
- At 262 cubic inches to start there's plenty of power (Original SBC=265)
- Rev-rot marine stuff is pretty easy to come by
- it easily FITS length-wise in the engine bay
- There are versions with carburetors and distributors

Just be sure to pick the right 4.3. Rev-rot stuff is not available for all of the iterations.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
66 Red Monza 2dr 140/4 EFI 60k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
65 Cypress Green Monza 140/4 4dr
65 White 4-dr 110/AC/PG (parts)



19 Tons of parts in boxes

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: lostbooger ()
Date: September 04, 2011 05:59PM

I did something similiar with a 4.3 in my 61.

Heres a video. [www.youtube.com]

THe parts are still easy enough to come by. You will need a special reverse rotation marine camshaft, marine front and rear crank seals and timing gears.

As far as the starter you can use a Corvair gear reduction starter in the stock spot provided the compression isnt rediculously high.

The PG is a very strong tranny. Some guys modify them some dont. There isnt much you can do. I think you can get your low band lined in kevlar and add another clutch pack.

Figure about $300-$500 for the parts to change the engine to reverse rotation.

The bellhousing adaptor is going to be fun to find. If your patient you will get a good deal. Expect to spend $300+ for it. Im using a Kennedy one and it works great! However I literally bought his last one.

The guy to talk to is Mel. He has both the Monzilla and his Ugzilla is a work in progress.

All that being said you have a very nice Corvair. Consider a good 140hp or turbocharging I think it will surprise you! Somebody will let you drive theirs in your club or at least take you for a ride. It is a good hearty engine with pretty good power once you get it spinning.

Heres a turbo with a powerglide running mid 12's

[www.youtube.com]

Damian


61 Monza 4.3L V6





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2011 06:07PM by lostbooger.

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: B-Nasty ()
Date: September 04, 2011 06:06PM

thanks for all the info so far. I am pretty set on a v8. hopefully I can get a hold of mel with the monzilla to pick his brain

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: Ed Dowds ()
Date: September 04, 2011 06:12PM

I had a rear V8 car in 1971.
I now have a rear 4.3 V6 car.

The V8 is really just too much.
Too much weight, too much heat and too much torque/hp.
The Corvair diff was just not made to handle a lot of torque, even with a 4 spider gear conversion.
A PG helps to lessen stress.

A V6 is just right IMHO.

Ed
Hillsborough, NJ
66 500 rear 4.3 V6 Corvair
69 350/350 TH Camaro was RS
30 Model A Ford Streetrod 350/400 TH
88 Celebrity Wagon (Daily Driver)

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: September 04, 2011 07:05PM

I have a 4.2 V8 in mine. The power is amazing but not too much torque for the differential. A 4.3 V6 would make about the same power without the body mods required for the length of the V8. If I'm not mistaken, the EM engine compartment is even smaller.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
66 Red Monza 2dr 140/4 EFI 60k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
65 Cypress Green Monza 140/4 4dr
65 White 4-dr 110/AC/PG (parts)



19 Tons of parts in boxes

Attachments:
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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: Johnniespeed ()
Date: September 04, 2011 07:45PM

It will not be easy, no matter how you do it. But it can be done. The engine can be reversed, by using a cam that has the firing order reversed, the timing chain and sprockets are replaced with two timing gears. The pistons are reversed in block for correct thrust surface/rod angle. The front and rear crankshaft seals are replaced with reverse rotation seals. A reverse rotation starter is available from Tilton. Since you are not using a manual transmission you will not have to build a reverse rotation pressure plate. A reverse rotation water pump is available from Edelbrock. The alternators will charge in either direction and the Sanden SD5 AC compressor will operate in reverse direction.
I use an injected 4.3 Vortec, rear mounted in my Rampside, it has about 225 horsepower, about the same horsepower as a 283 small block Chevy V-8.

John

1962 Rampside
Powered by Injected Vortec 4.3

Sunny Suburban Sparta Michigan.

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: 4carbcorvair ()
Date: September 04, 2011 08:28PM

Easiest way is to buy one already done. winking smiley

--------------------------------
Ronnie
Southern Maine.
[www.dirigocorvairs.com]
66 Corsa Convertible, 140, 4sp.




It doesn't leak, it's marking it's territory.

A mirror is a reflection of the miles travelled.

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: lostbooger ()
Date: September 04, 2011 09:39PM

Alternators will charge in either direction however they will not cool as well if spun in reverse. Please keep that in mind when selecting one.

Damian


61 Monza 4.3L V6


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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: B-Nasty ()
Date: September 04, 2011 10:55PM

cnicol, that looks great! where did you find the 4.2 motor? is it an audi motor? are you using a stock tranny? if so how did you match the motor to the trans?

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: September 04, 2011 11:21PM

Craigs' car was just on the cover of the COMMUNIQUE and a nice writeup inside, a couple of months ago as I recall. CORSA will sell you a back issue I think if you join. (hint)

Sincere regards, Steve

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo 1967 monza 110/4
1968 monza 110/4 1971 amante gt 110/4

Golden, Colo. CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: September 05, 2011 01:10AM

Yes, the car was well covered in the April issue of the Communique.

It's a 61 Oldsmobile (Buick/Olds/Pontiac/Rover) all aluminum V8. Originally 3.6L (215 cubic inch) it's been sleeved oversize to 4.2L and mated to a stock 66 Saginaw 4-speed and Posi differential using a Kennedy adapter. All of the conversion parts are very hard to come by, especially the Rev-Rot camshaft.

Here's some of the story:click here

Some more: Here

And the latest: Here

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
66 Red Monza 2dr 140/4 EFI 60k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
65 Cypress Green Monza 140/4 4dr
65 White 4-dr 110/AC/PG (parts)



19 Tons of parts in boxes

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 05, 2011 01:18AM

B-nasty... here's a nasty Vair that is only 6 cylinders... rhandyman's supercharged em..



Supercharged2.avi





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: mrtrimmier ()
Date: September 05, 2011 01:43AM

So uh, how hard would it be to flip the V-6 end to end if running a PG??? Lot's of fabrication I'm sure right???

Boog, how does your ride corner with that extra weight in the back??

Just wonderin'.....

Regards,
Mike T
Lady's Island S.C.

Black '65 CORSA "parts" car ("RatVair") '65 CORSA Weber/180 ("Whitey") '60 500 Sedan ("Smurf Surf Sedan")


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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: September 05, 2011 02:54AM

Flip end to end??? PG?? The normal approach is to get a marine cam and reverse the engine rotation. Then PG or clutch turns in the normal Corvair rotation.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
66 Red Monza 2dr 140/4 EFI 60k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
65 Cypress Green Monza 140/4 4dr
65 White 4-dr 110/AC/PG (parts)



19 Tons of parts in boxes

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Re: Flipping
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 05, 2011 03:01AM

Not enough room in any Vair

Charlie Danner has lots of experience in that





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: Johnniespeed ()
Date: September 05, 2011 03:58AM

Lostbooger, the Corvair alternator pulley will bolt right onto other alternators, as I have a Corvair alternator pulley and fan on my CS130 alternator. That way the fan is blowing air correct direction.
By the way, did you ever look closely at an alternator fan ? The fan blades are not symetrical, supposed to be quieter that way.

John

1962 Rampside
Powered by Injected Vortec 4.3

Sunny Suburban Sparta Michigan.

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: lostbooger ()
Date: September 05, 2011 04:18AM

Im aware of the fan being exchangeable on some aftermarket corvair alternators. The S-10 one was not however. That is why I mentioned it since it is a detail many forget.

Here is the thread covering my alternator and pulley set up.[corvaircenter.com]

I had to get creative with my alternator fan since Im using a serpentine belt.


Mrtrimmier the car handles about as well if not better then stock with all the upgrades I have applied.

I installed urethane bushings, performance shocks and lower profile and wider wheels. Also moving the spare and the battery to the trunk REALLY helped to move the weight to the front.

Here is the thread covering my alternator and pulley set up.
The car now sits maybe an inch lower then stock in the rear. That being said the car sat low with the factory engine in it so that may be a bad way to judge. I would like to weigh it someday.

As far as handling I have yet to really push it hard and test its limits. Ive made a couple hard 90degree turns at over 30MPH and the car was way more stable then I had expected however.

Damian


61 Monza 4.3L V6





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2011 04:20AM by lostbooger.

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: j3m ()
Date: September 05, 2011 07:03AM

My opinion is the aluminum 215 B.O.P. early sixties GM/later ROVER is the only smart V-8 option in the FACTORY REAR LOCATION.
---------Why? .......WEIGHT, plain & simple, (THE CHEVY SMALL BLOCK=too heavy!)



Another option is the Vortec V-6 4.3 as others have done. Much better option than the SB Chevy (essentially its a SB sawed off to a V-6 is about what the 4.3 is anyway)

Craig N. did a great job placing a 215 V-8 in one of his Corvairs. The workmanship and engineering was top-notch as is everything that he does. I know that he set out to construct it as if GM might have in 1963, using the 215.
My opinion is that one could make it more modern by incorporating the factory fuel injection from a 90's Rover,(Rover powerplant from wrecking yard, etc) or even one of the aftermkt Holley efi or Edelbrock EFI solutions rather than completely ancient. If you're gonna go that far to do such a swap, why not go for the most modern solution. That brings me to my next point: WHY NOT GO WITH A MUCH MORE MODERN GM powerplant, that is lightweight like the ECOTEC 2.2 ???
Assuming there is enough space in the CORVAIR engine bay, the ECOTEC 2.2 liter 4 cyl is a much better choice THAN EITHER OF the 4.3 vortec V-6 or the B.O.P.215/ROVER engine!
Do it much like Anthonyforensics' game plan with his super SubieDoobieDoo.
Anthony obviously is using a Porsche transaxle and a Kennedy adapter I think.
A Volkswagen transaxle or a Porsche transaxle WILL WORK WITH THE ECOTEC.
Many, many have been built and the VW trans seems to handle the powerful ECOTEC 2.2 very well. If too concerned about this, one could do as Anthonyforensics' Subiedoo Corvair and USE A latter Porsche transaxle with the powerful ECOTEC from GM.
This ECOTEC 2.2 is one of General Motors' best powerplants. It may or may not have been developed by Detroit engineers, but it is the best four GM has built. It is relatively lightweight and modern. It is isn't a QuaTurd-4 as GM's 1980's supreme achievement, the Quad-4, or junk4/turd4 as it may have been better termed. The Ecotec might not be as good as the best from Japan (Honda/Toyota) but it is as close as The General has ever come.
It is as good as you'll get with a GM engine in the Corvair engine bay. The Ecotec is not a bad powerplant at all. It is a reasonably good one. The engines are plentiful and can be obtained inexpensively. They are lightweight.
Powerful enough and can be hopped-up to very powerful power output. They are every bit as reliable as a Vortec V-6 or Chevy SB, probably more so in most cases. There is a significant following of suppliers/parts specialists/enthusiasts for the Ecotec 2.2 powerplant.
You will get all the power that you can really need from the Ecotec 2.2
You will get more hp stock from one than a mid 1980's 4.3 V-6 and they will produce far more hp stock than what the de-tuned factory SB Chevy's that were installed in everything from '77 to mid '80's before carbs were replaced with EFI.
The lightweight of the Ecotec 2.2 would be the best solution in my opinion if your aim is to keep a factory GM powerplant and make it as modern & reliable at the same time. My belief is the Porsche or even the Volkswagen transaxle would give one better useable gear ratios than the ancient Vair transaxle gear ratio choices, assuming you could reverse the engine rotation.
Given the power output potential of the Ecotec, one might want to perhaps use the entire FWD factory set up with all factory components, and figure out a way to house & attach all of that at the ass-end of the Corvair unit structure. That would give you the most modern solution assuming the fabrication/attachment engineering was top-notch. It is worth considering the lighter and better GM 2.2 engine and not get 'old' while at the same time, so 'overweight', as is typically done in most car builds as well as accurately describing the builders' ever growing waistlines & those of the typical residents of the lower 48 states.

Anyway here are some ECOTEC threads from the crazy VW nuts who have swapped them in nearly as much as Subies.
[www.shoptalkforums.com]

[www.shoptalkforums.com]


Just thought that I would perhaps bring this 4 cyl Ecotec option to this thread discussion. Weight is not your friend when planting a powerplant in the engine bay at the rear of the Corvair.
My guess is that Anthonyforensics' approach with the Subie power is the superior approach versus those existing 4.3 Vortec and 215 BuickOldsPontiac/laterROVER engineV-8.
Probably the package weight, the better powerplant, probably better center of gravity will also be apparent when Anthonyforensics' Subiedoo Corvair is completed.
There are certainly a number of possibilities. Though the weight and size might be advantageous and it is a Chevy powerplant, I don't see anyone stupid enough to plant the Chevrolet 4 cyl alum vegaTurd, as it is beyond junk and not even that light. The twenty year old HONDA engine that teddbrown has in his project will be most interesting, as it will be mated via a custom built adaptor to the stock Corvair transaxle. One of the most reliable powerplants on the planet mated successfully to the stock Vair transaxle, --that is gonna be one to watch, just like Anthony's SoobieDoo Corvair....

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