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easiest v8 swap
Posted by: B-Nasty ()
Date: September 04, 2011 10:42AM

I have been researching for 2 weeks and have decided to do a v8 swap in my 64 coupe. I want to keep it as simple as possible as this will not be a race car, it will just be for weekend cruising/car meets.

Now the purpose of this thread is to go over all the obstacles of the swap and Im sure there will be some things brought to my attention that I am unaware of.

To keep it simple I want to use the stock powerglide, differential, suspension, etc.

My biggest obstacle so far is the motor. I want to keep the rear location so I can still have a back seat. Where can I get a reverse rotation gm small block? I have a buddy with a complete 327 that he will sell for 200 but what would it cost to rebuild it in reverse rotation (I can do the labor so all prices will be for just parts). I know ill need a cam, and a RR water pump. what other parts/components are needed to switch rotation?


I haven't completely ruled out a crown conversion but can you still get the kits?
Do crown conversion cars use a reverse rotation motor also?

Is there an adapter/bell housing available to mount the motor to the stock powerglide? (I have access to a cnc machine that could cut adapters from flat alum plating, but im not sure If thats a possibility)

How would the starter mount and would I need s RR starter?

I can weld so motor mounts are not a concern.

I am not concerned about the cooling system, I can fab all that up.

Do I need to change anything for the fuel system?

These are all the obstacles Ive thought of so far. If Ive left anything out please inform me. I know with the help of everyone here I can complete this project.

This is the inspiration for my build: monzilla build

I would like to mimic this setup

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Date: September 04, 2011 10:50AM

Do it the way Chevrolet did.

Sell the Monza.

Buy a Chevy II.

They designed in enough room for an easy V-8 swap and even made dealer kits.

Why ruin another Corvair??

My opinion...


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CORSA Western Director + Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 140 Corsa ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 'Vert Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza 'Vert (SOLD) ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Evening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: September 04, 2011 10:54AM

I think the easiest V8 swap is a 4.3 V6.
- Engines are a dime a dozen
- SBC adapters adapt it to either stick or automatic Corvair transaxles
- At 262 cubic inches to start there's plenty of power (Original SBC=265)
- Rev-rot marine stuff is pretty easy to come by
- it easily FITS length-wise in the engine bay
- There are versions with carburetors and distributors

Just be sure to pick the right 4.3. Rev-rot stuff is not available for all of the iterations.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: lostbooger ()
Date: September 04, 2011 10:59AM

I did something similiar with a 4.3 in my 61.

Heres a video. [www.youtube.com]

THe parts are still easy enough to come by. You will need a special reverse rotation marine camshaft, marine front and rear crank seals and timing gears.

As far as the starter you can use a Corvair gear reduction starter in the stock spot provided the compression isnt rediculously high.

The PG is a very strong tranny. Some guys modify them some dont. There isnt much you can do. I think you can get your low band lined in kevlar and add another clutch pack.

Figure about $300-$500 for the parts to change the engine to reverse rotation.

The bellhousing adaptor is going to be fun to find. If your patient you will get a good deal. Expect to spend $300+ for it. Im using a Kennedy one and it works great! However I literally bought his last one.

The guy to talk to is Mel. He has both the Monzilla and his Ugzilla is a work in progress.

All that being said you have a very nice Corvair. Consider a good 140hp or turbocharging I think it will surprise you! Somebody will let you drive theirs in your club or at least take you for a ride. It is a good hearty engine with pretty good power once you get it spinning.

Heres a turbo with a powerglide running mid 12's

[www.youtube.com]

Damian


61 Monza 4.3L V6





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2011 11:07AM by lostbooger.

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: B-Nasty ()
Date: September 04, 2011 11:06AM

thanks for all the info so far. I am pretty set on a v8. hopefully I can get a hold of mel with the monzilla to pick his brain

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: Ed Dowds ()
Date: September 04, 2011 11:12AM

I had a rear V8 car in 1971.
I now have a rear 4.3 V6 car.

The V8 is really just too much.
Too much weight, too much heat and too much torque/hp.
The Corvair diff was just not made to handle a lot of torque, even with a 4 spider gear conversion.
A PG helps to lessen stress.

A V6 is just right IMHO.

Ed
Hillsborough, NJ
66 500 rear 4.3 V6 Corvair
69 350/350 TH Camaro was RS
30 Model A Ford Streetrod 350/400 TH
88 Celebrity Wagon (Daily Driver)

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: September 04, 2011 12:05PM

I have a 4.2 V8 in mine. The power is amazing but not too much torque for the differential. A 4.3 V6 would make about the same power without the body mods required for the length of the V8. If I'm not mistaken, the EM engine compartment is even smaller.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

Attachments:
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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: Johnniespeed ()
Date: September 04, 2011 12:45PM

It will not be easy, no matter how you do it. But it can be done. The engine can be reversed, by using a cam that has the firing order reversed, the timing chain and sprockets are replaced with two timing gears. The pistons are reversed in block for correct thrust surface/rod angle. The front and rear crankshaft seals are replaced with reverse rotation seals. A reverse rotation starter is available from Tilton. Since you are not using a manual transmission you will not have to build a reverse rotation pressure plate. A reverse rotation water pump is available from Edelbrock. The alternators will charge in either direction and the Sanden SD5 AC compressor will operate in reverse direction.
I use an injected 4.3 Vortec, rear mounted in my Rampside, it has about 225 horsepower, about the same horsepower as a 283 small block Chevy V-8.

John

1962 Rampside, 4.3 Vortec powered.
The thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.

Sparta Michigan.


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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: 4carbcorvair ()
Date: September 04, 2011 01:28PM

Easiest way is to buy one already done. winking smiley

--------------------------------
Ronnie
Southern Maine.
www.dirigocorvairs.net
66 Corsa Convertible, 140, 4sp.
65 Monza Convertible, 110, PG.




It doesn't leak, it's marking it's territory.

A mirror is a reflection of the miles travelled.

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: lostbooger ()
Date: September 04, 2011 02:39PM

Alternators will charge in either direction however they will not cool as well if spun in reverse. Please keep that in mind when selecting one.

Damian


61 Monza 4.3L V6


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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: B-Nasty ()
Date: September 04, 2011 03:55PM

cnicol, that looks great! where did you find the 4.2 motor? is it an audi motor? are you using a stock tranny? if so how did you match the motor to the trans?

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: September 04, 2011 04:21PM

Craigs' car was just on the cover of the COMMUNIQUE and a nice writeup inside, a couple of months ago as I recall. CORSA will sell you a back issue I think if you join. (hint)

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: September 04, 2011 06:10PM

Yes, the car was well covered in the April issue of the Communique.

It's a 61 Oldsmobile (Buick/Olds/Pontiac/Rover) all aluminum V8. Originally 3.6L (215 cubic inch) it's been sleeved oversize to 4.2L and mated to a stock 66 Saginaw 4-speed and Posi differential using a Kennedy adapter. All of the conversion parts are very hard to come by, especially the Rev-Rot camshaft.

Here's some of the story:click here

Some more: Here

And the latest: Here

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 04, 2011 06:18PM

B-nasty... here's a nasty Vair that is only 6 cylinders... rhandyman's supercharged em..



Supercharged2.avi





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: mrtrimmier ()
Date: September 04, 2011 06:43PM

So uh, how hard would it be to flip the V-6 end to end if running a PG??? Lot's of fabrication I'm sure right???

Boog, how does your ride corner with that extra weight in the back??

Just wonderin'.....

Regards,
Mike T
Lady's Island S.C.

Black '65 CORSA "parts" car ("RatVair") '65 CORSA Weber/180 ("Whitey") '60 500 Sedan ("Smurf Surf Sedan")


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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: September 04, 2011 07:54PM

Flip end to end??? PG?? The normal approach is to get a marine cam and reverse the engine rotation. Then PG or clutch turns in the normal Corvair rotation.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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Re: Flipping
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: September 04, 2011 08:01PM

Not enough room in any Vair

Charlie Danner has lots of experience in that





MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: Johnniespeed ()
Date: September 04, 2011 08:58PM

Lostbooger, the Corvair alternator pulley will bolt right onto other alternators, as I have a Corvair alternator pulley and fan on my CS130 alternator. That way the fan is blowing air correct direction.
By the way, did you ever look closely at an alternator fan ? The fan blades are not symetrical, supposed to be quieter that way.

John

1962 Rampside, 4.3 Vortec powered.
The thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.

Sparta Michigan.


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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: lostbooger ()
Date: September 04, 2011 09:18PM

Im aware of the fan being exchangeable on some aftermarket corvair alternators. The S-10 one was not however. That is why I mentioned it since it is a detail many forget.

Here is the thread covering my alternator and pulley set up.[corvaircenter.com]

I had to get creative with my alternator fan since Im using a serpentine belt.


Mrtrimmier the car handles about as well if not better then stock with all the upgrades I have applied.

I installed urethane bushings, performance shocks and lower profile and wider wheels. Also moving the spare and the battery to the trunk REALLY helped to move the weight to the front.

Here is the thread covering my alternator and pulley set up.
The car now sits maybe an inch lower then stock in the rear. That being said the car sat low with the factory engine in it so that may be a bad way to judge. I would like to weigh it someday.

As far as handling I have yet to really push it hard and test its limits. Ive made a couple hard 90degree turns at over 30MPH and the car was way more stable then I had expected however.

Damian


61 Monza 4.3L V6





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/04/2011 09:20PM by lostbooger.

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Re: easiest v8 swap
Posted by: lostbooger ()
Date: September 05, 2011 01:44AM

J3m, who does not seem to remember previous threads he has posted in seems to have forgotten that a fwd transaxle (excluding the Toronado) cannot be installed in a vair especially an EM without losing the rear seats. Unless of course you angle the driveshafts forward about 45 degrees to compensate having to move the engine aft ~12 inches.

I dont believe he has any experience with any engine swaps. Just opinions and educated guesses.

Also he apparently did not notice the title of the thread "easiest v8 swap". Installing an Ecotec with a foreign transaxle is hardly easy.

We can prolly all agree that it would be a nice set up but the cost and fabrication would be a bit much.

I know this because I researched it at great lengths. Cost and sanity drove me to go the 4.3 route.

Heres a thread that coveres some of my and others Ecotec ideas [corvaircenter.com]


If anybody ever finds a way to reverse rotate the Ecotec however I would be among the first to install one.

Damian


61 Monza 4.3L V6





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/05/2011 01:47AM by lostbooger.

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