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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 23, 2011 11:57AM

Please work slowly and look at everything as it comes apart...

Tell us exactly where the engine oil is coming out at...

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: August 23, 2011 02:00PM

corventure Dave Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ok... I don't want to offend anyone, but I see
> that no one has mentioned from what side the main
> seal was installed in the bell-clutch housing. I
> will assume Aaron65 got it right... but for others
> who may be following this... and I know there are
> those who are new to Corvairs here...
>
> I have came across engines where the previous
> person seated the main oil seal in the bell-clutch
> housing backwards. In other words... from the
> clutch side. Sure that makes it easier to change
> the seal without removing the bell-clutch
> housing... but it don-a seal worth a spit!!!
> Main seal has to be installed from the
> crankshaft-engine side of the bell-clutch
> housing.
> .
> Corventure Dave







1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)

-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Date: August 23, 2011 02:24PM

Yes, what you get when it's apart will tell the tale - we hope. Just some observations -

Key ways, bolt threads, gasket on the crank gear are all possible leak spots - but they will not cause the amount of leakage that you have. Chasing anything involving the crank gear (except for the bolts) will involve tearing the entire engine down. Put that off after every other conceivable clue is exhausted.

"Chinese seals"? Guess where Clark's Vitons come from? My non-Viton seals as well. We both get our seals from the same importer. The only difference is that I have avoided the Viton seals.There simply is no affordable alternative unless you like $40+ Nationals (And those have a long reputation of not sealing)

Speaking of Viton, I was going to ask if that's what you installed. Normally they should not cause problems when new - but later on we are hearing of more failures. This is because Viton does not make a good dynamic seal material and wear is a serious issue.

It could be as simple as the hub surface being bad. Keep in mind that the surface may look fine - even "perfect" but you can have low spots for a variety of reasons and these spots will not be readily apparent. But if you suspect this DON'T yank the crank! An easy fix is a CR Redi-sleeve.

Finally, incorrect installation has already been mentioned - but should also include accidentally folding over one of the lip seals during installation - It is VERY easy to do.

Like Mattlock said
"Let us know what you find"

Lon
www.corvairunderground.com

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: Aaron65 ()
Date: August 23, 2011 03:03PM

Will do...Thanks for all the tips. Hopefully it's something obvious!

1965 Corvair Monza Convertible 95 4-sp.
1965 Buick Skylark
1965 Ford Mustang
1965 Dodge Dart 170 Wagon
1953 Buick Special Riviera
1963 Ford Thunderbird
1974 Pontiac Firebird Esprit

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: Scott V ()
Date: August 23, 2011 10:10PM

corvairunderground Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> This is because Viton does not make
> a good dynamic seal material and wear is a serious
> issue.

if viton doesnt make a good dynamic seal why is viton used for valve stem seals?

-Scott V.

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: HOMEBREW ()
Date: August 24, 2011 02:20AM

Old corvair mechanic I knew always soaked type gaskets in water for a little while then blew them off and use Vaseline to seal the two surfaces. When bolting the two together he used Indian head sealer on the bolts said "...That's how the Chevy dealer always did it and it never leaked bubba!" This dude is about 75+ but sometimes forgets in mid conversation.

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: Aaron65 ()
Date: August 24, 2011 08:01AM

Well, I've got the bugger in the air...wish me luck! I'm just planning on getting some stuff ready to go today, as tomorrow should be at least 10 degrees cooler.

1965 Corvair Monza Convertible 95 4-sp.
1965 Buick Skylark
1965 Ford Mustang
1965 Dodge Dart 170 Wagon
1953 Buick Special Riviera
1963 Ford Thunderbird
1974 Pontiac Firebird Esprit

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: Aaron65 ()
Date: August 24, 2011 12:39PM

Well, I got it all apart...the only smoking gun is that the backside of the flywheel ring (the part that faces the flywheel) has oil on about a third of it. I'm guessing two flywheel bolts are leaking. The seal is installed properly and doesn't appear to be folded over. However, there is oil everywhere, especially in the area where the clutch rod enters the bellhousing.

1965 Corvair Monza Convertible 95 4-sp.
1965 Buick Skylark
1965 Ford Mustang
1965 Dodge Dart 170 Wagon
1953 Buick Special Riviera
1963 Ford Thunderbird
1974 Pontiac Firebird Esprit

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: Aaron65 ()
Date: August 24, 2011 12:42PM




Here's what I'm looking at...

1965 Corvair Monza Convertible 95 4-sp.
1965 Buick Skylark
1965 Ford Mustang
1965 Dodge Dart 170 Wagon
1953 Buick Special Riviera
1963 Ford Thunderbird
1974 Pontiac Firebird Esprit

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: davemotohead ()
Date: August 24, 2011 12:50PM

Seems you might have leaking flywheel to crankshaft bolts.

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: Aaron65 ()
Date: August 24, 2011 01:46PM

That's my guess...a few of the bellhousing bolts were wet too...looks like old Permatex #3 time! I'll throw a new bellhousing seal in for good measure too.

1965 Corvair Monza Convertible 95 4-sp.
1965 Buick Skylark
1965 Ford Mustang
1965 Dodge Dart 170 Wagon
1953 Buick Special Riviera
1963 Ford Thunderbird
1974 Pontiac Firebird Esprit

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 24, 2011 03:38PM

I say bolts as well..

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Date: August 24, 2011 04:09PM

I would say bolts too - but it's unusual for bolts to leak that much oil. Well, not impossible. If you're not going to do anything else then I wish you luck.
Make sure to replace the input shaft seal or you'll have a new leak spot.

Scott V - I don't sell Viton stem seals either, Mine are Teflon. Why do they make them? Why do they make Spam? The head engineer at Parker told me that Viton should be avoided as a seal material on a "dynamic" (Rotating seal). BUt then we all have our points of view.

Of course the number of leaking Viton bell housing seals after only a few years of use (I know of 6) is not usual. But there could be other reasons.

Lon Wall
www.corvairunderground.com

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: Scott V ()
Date: August 25, 2011 04:20AM

corvairunderground Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Scott V - I don't sell Viton stem seals
> either, Mine are Teflon. Why do they make them?
> Why do they make Spam?

i guess the import & domestic oem guys install viton stem seals on the engines cuz they like spam. they dont seem to like nitrile, polyacrylate or teflon cuz they dont use these materials too much / not @ all.

seeing that viton costs about 12x more than nitrile maybe its not spam the oem guys like but maybe something closer to caviar. gg

teflon is also a good material for stem seals. not used in oem stuff maybe cuz its less flexible than viton & wont seal well if the guides are worn.

-Scott V.

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: Aaron65 ()
Date: August 27, 2011 09:17AM

Well, she's done, back running again. Took a day longer because I had to order a camber adjustment bolt to replace one that was boogered up. All bolts are well sealed, it's got a new bellhousing seal and gasket and new input shaft seals (2). I sealed the flywheel flange and keyway area. Knock on wood! I hope it doesn't leak...

1965 Corvair Monza Convertible 95 4-sp.
1965 Buick Skylark
1965 Ford Mustang
1965 Dodge Dart 170 Wagon
1953 Buick Special Riviera
1963 Ford Thunderbird
1974 Pontiac Firebird Esprit

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: Grandpacorvair ()
Date: July 03, 2019 05:35AM

Aaron65 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, she's done, back running again. Took a day longer because I had to order a camber adjustment bolt to replace one that was boogered up. All bolts are well sealed, it's got a new bellhousing seal and gasket and new input shaft seals (2). I sealed the flywheel flange and keyway area. Knock on wood! I hope it doesn't leak...


Resurrecting an old thread but...

Did it fix the leak?? Still chasing mine and wondered what the final outcome of yours was...

Kerry Borgne
Birmingham, Michigan

1963 Spyder Convertible

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: 1962spyder ()
Date: July 03, 2019 10:06PM

Ok have you checked for a crack in the bell housing? Mystery that took some time to tell. I took a torch to the housing and saw the crack. PO must have used a jack on the housing.

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: Aaron65 ()
Date: July 04, 2019 05:10AM

Ha ha! I've actually had the drivetrain out at least once since then. The last time, the viton seal I had installed had frizzled away a bit, but in this thread, I think the bolts were the answer. I used Permatex #3 on them the next time. I also make sure to use Permatex #2 on the outside of my input shaft seals (just a little), and to pack the seal lips with grease.

1965 Corvair Monza Convertible 95 4-sp.
1965 Buick Skylark
1965 Ford Mustang
1965 Dodge Dart 170 Wagon
1953 Buick Special Riviera
1963 Ford Thunderbird
1974 Pontiac Firebird Esprit

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: July 04, 2019 09:26AM

Checking for cracks is a good idea. I've never had a manual bell housing crack but most automatics I've checked recently were cracked. None were cracked where they would leak oil though.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, Lost count at 100 Corvairs...

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Re: Just venting...Bellhousing leak.
Posted by: Grandpacorvair ()
Date: September 08, 2019 04:40PM

Aaron65 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ha ha! I've actually had the drivetrain out at least once since then. The last time, the viton seal I had installed had frizzled away a bit, but in this thread, I think the bolts were the answer. I used Permatex #3 on them the next time. I also make sure to use Permatex #2 on the outside of my input shaft seals (just a little), and to pack the seal lips with grease.

Thanks for responding! When you say the bolts were the answer, are you referring to the flywheel to crankshaft bolts or the the bell housing to case bolts..or both??

Kerry Borgne
Birmingham, Michigan

1963 Spyder Convertible

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