So this guy posts an ad on ebay for his restored '65 Chevelle SS Z16. [cgi.ebay.com]

The guys on a Chevelle forum get wind of it and start picking the car apart.
[www.chevelles.com]

Now the guy is facing 4 felonies
[www2.nbc4i.com]

He might have been able to get away with it 20 years ago but today when you put a rare car on the internet expect the experts to come out of the woodwork. Although I can't believe he thought he could get away with that fake body tag and vin plate.

Wow, trying to pass off a 76 as a 65? Dumb criminal show will feature this loser.

Greg Miller
Eugene, Oregon

I think that was a misprint. The car is either a 65 or 64. Only two years for that body style.

Cliff Tibbitts
Lexington, KY
CORSA, CKCE
66 Monza, 140/4sp

What a dumbass. He should've known there would be experts that know everything Chevrolet, especially rare Chevelles, Camaros, and Novas. Trim & ID tags are so fake, you got to be truly stupid not to notice.

Z16 was only 65.
lots and lots of stuff wrong before you even get to the VIN and Trim tag...

Marco Padilla
Classics Of Los Angeles
Los Angeles Ca (San Fernando Valley) 91352 and 91325
Los Angeles Ca (San Gabriel Valley) 91706 ( Some weekends)
(213)272-3239

WWW.Coming-to-a-Website-near_you.Com
Ebay:ClassicsOfLosAngeles

66 Monza Vert 140hp/4speed
62 Monza Wagon 140hp/PG
62 Rampside 110hp/4speed
63 Rampside 110hp/4speed
63 Greenbrier 8 Door 80hp?/PG
68 Monza 140hp/4Speed
68 Monza Vert 140hp/4Speed

Marco, I wasn't referring to the Z-16, only the body style. If someone is clever enough to fake the tags and everything else, I suppose it would be possible to make a 64 Chevelle look like a 65. I know the dash and tail lights were different between 64 and 65 but that's about all my memory is good for. My dad had a 64 and one of my best friends in High School had a 65, Malibu SS. But, I don't remember all that much with regard to the subtle differences and before today, I had never even heard of the Z16 option.

Cliff Tibbitts
Lexington, KY
CORSA, CKCE
66 Monza, 140/4sp

As cars or anything else become extremely valuable, there will always be an increasing opportunity for people to counterfeit them.

As always......due diligence and awareness will lower the odds of getting scammed.

1965 Monza Coupe
Westminster, Maryland

MID ENG enthusiast &
prior Kelmark owner.

Cliff, was just stating a point of interest wasn't trying to correct you.

Yeah, 64's and 65's are very close. Like you said, dash, tail lights also hood, fender bumpers, grille, console are different. I'm sure there are other parts too. I had a 64 SS for a while, and had a friend that had 65. He was in need of a hood and we went to a local swap meet to find one. We found a nice one, and I was going from memory. That's how I learned the differences in the 64 vs 65. education was not free

Marco Padilla
Classics Of Los Angeles
Los Angeles Ca (San Fernando Valley) 91352 and 91325
Los Angeles Ca (San Gabriel Valley) 91706 ( Some weekends)
(213)272-3239

WWW.Coming-to-a-Website-near_you.Com
Ebay:ClassicsOfLosAngeles

66 Monza Vert 140hp/4speed
62 Monza Wagon 140hp/PG
62 Rampside 110hp/4speed
63 Rampside 110hp/4speed
63 Greenbrier 8 Door 80hp?/PG
68 Monza 140hp/4Speed
68 Monza Vert 140hp/4Speed

I really have no issue with guys building a clone of a rare car, when they are so rare or expensive that obtaining an original is not possible, and they want one really bad.
If that seller simply would have said this was a tribute car, or clone car, he would have retained his integrity, avoided legal issues, and perhaps been able to connect his car to someone who also wanted the real thing but would settle for an almost look alike.
I worked with a guy who bought a "GTO" for a lot of money, but it was a LeMans with GTO seats and door panels.
I guess it is a good thing for these guys to get prosecuted and send a message to others.

John

The thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death.
Vortec powered Rampside.
Sparta Michigan.

The Story Continued on that Chevelle website, when their Expert was contacted by the ohio police.. Turns out the PO had documentation that when they sold it, it was not as a z-16.

[www.chevelles.com]

The best part is that the idiot copied the body tag number off the expert's Z16 website. Even used the same body number. GM gave each car a unique body number much like a VIN no two cars can have the same number.

The Chevelle forum members and those two threads stand in sharp contrast to previous threads on this forum and the Corvair world.

Past discussions about rebodied and reVINed Corvairs have found approval, acceptance and admiration of the builders. Accolades about preserving history are normally heard.

In the Mopar world there are thousands of clones. Few try to misrepresent them and they usually have good resale value. Their value is based on the quality of the build.

A rose by any other name is still fraud. Making your own tag or using a tag from a deceased car is still the same. The car standing there was born with a different number.

Johnniespeed Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...If that seller simply would have said this was a
> tribute car, or clone car, he would have retained
> his integrity, avoided legal issues....


Well, not really. He still has the rather large legal issue of (very badly) faked VIN tags.

Of course, if he had just left he original tags on and represented it as a tribute, you are entirely correct. I also have not problem with (properly represented) tribute cars. I would much rather own and drive an interesting tribute car, then own and watch it sit in my garage a "true" car.

Tim
Southern California - Where the stars are on the ground and dirt is in the sky

Richard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Chevelle forum members and those two threads
> stand in sharp contrast to previous threads on
> this forum and the Corvair world.
>
I think many on this forum would have the same reaction to a Yenko clone being passed off on ebay as the real deal with a $100k price tag.

Like my Corsa clone... I make no representation that it is a true Corsa, and one look at the VIN reveals it's birth as a Monza. If I were to sell it, (fat chance) I wouldn't represent it as anything but a clone.

Greg Miller
Eugene, Oregon

It took me an hour & a half to read that thread. Bottom line is, that seller is a scammer, WAY too many lies ! Ignorance & denial don't float in court, he is in deep doodoo... moron

Al Macaulay - Okanagan Valley, BC
Western Canada Corsa

Link to my Corsa build- [corvaircenter.com]
Link to my Cobra boat Project- [www.sidewinder-boats.com]

66 Corsa 140 HT - 402BBC/Turbo 425, 66 CDN Corsa 'Vert 140, 79 Cobra 16SS/Merc 1500, 69 Triumph Trident Chopper, 67 BSA Lightning Custom
Cobra Custom Metal Design/ God Bless Canada

I bought a 1963 Corvair coupe many years ago, and later discovered that it was in fact two cars, the front of one grafted to the back of another. Very professionally done, very hard to discern, likely done when the car was near-new.

So...

When I sold it a couple of years later, I fully informed the purchaser of its history. Couldn't sleep otherwise.

--Bob Marlow

I'm glad no one got burned but the charges he faces are much less than what would have come his way had the car sold and someone defrauded. Too bad the cops didn't buy it - but I guess that would have been some form of entrapment though; I don't think they can't let a crime proceed or develop.

Too bad they can't throw a bigger book at him

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4-dr, 4.2L V8 49k
66 Monza 140/4 EFI 60k
65 4-dr 110/AC/PG (project)
61 Rampside
62 Rampside (almost done!)
64 GB -CrUnChEd (donor)

20 Tons of parts in boxes

This is the problem I have with all this cloning and tribute stuff. There's so many out and about sommeone is going to get ripped off. Unless they are an expert on these cars.

Eric N.
1962 Monza 900 Coupe
Reedsburg Wi.

Two year's probation ... AND he gets the car back. Sheesh.

[www.dispatch.com]

Jay Pitchford
65 Corsa convertible
Columbus OH