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Corvair Center Forum :
Corvair Center Phorum
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Attachments:
Corvair Center
Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
UGLYTRUK
()
Date: May 30, 2011 03:00PM
A friend just passed by with an early 70's Triumph Spitfire. He bought very nicely machined adapters to install VW Jetta wheels onto his Spitfire.
I would like to put 5 hole Chevy Rallye wheels on my '64 Monza. Would the 5 lug wheels protrude too far with the 7/16 or 1/2 thick spacers? He used front drive wheels, which of course have the wheel spider sitting at the outside edge of the rim, like all front drive cars.
Here's the link...ebay.com/importsplanet
[stores.ebay.com]
I would like to put 5 hole Chevy Rallye wheels on my '64 Monza. Would the 5 lug wheels protrude too far with the 7/16 or 1/2 thick spacers? He used front drive wheels, which of course have the wheel spider sitting at the outside edge of the rim, like all front drive cars.
Here's the link...ebay.com/importsplanet
[stores.ebay.com]
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
66vairman
()
Date: May 30, 2011 03:12PM
This is a tough question to answer.
A wheel pattern adapter CAN work, BUT a lot can go wrong. Steering/wheel/bearing geometry should be kept close to stock or you can create some handling and suspension load problems (adapters usually move the wheel further from the center of the car - increase track)
Some adapters just can't be properly centered and you get a lot of vibration at speed.
Generally speaking - I've seen more problems than successes with wheel adapters.
A wheel pattern adapter CAN work, BUT a lot can go wrong. Steering/wheel/bearing geometry should be kept close to stock or you can create some handling and suspension load problems (adapters usually move the wheel further from the center of the car - increase track)
Some adapters just can't be properly centered and you get a lot of vibration at speed.
Generally speaking - I've seen more problems than successes with wheel adapters.
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
cnicol
()
Date: May 30, 2011 03:18PM
Better to install LM front hubs (or complete LM front suspension) and have the rear axles and drums drilled for 5-bolt. Simpler, cheaper, and no handling/suspension problems, IMO
Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4-dr, 4.2L V8 49k
66 Monza 140/4 EFI 60k
65 4-dr 110/AC/PG (project)
61 Rampside
62 Rampside (almost done!)
64 GB -CrUnChEd (donor)
20 Tons of parts in boxes
Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4-dr, 4.2L V8 49k
66 Monza 140/4 EFI 60k
65 4-dr 110/AC/PG (project)
61 Rampside
62 Rampside (almost done!)
64 GB -CrUnChEd (donor)
20 Tons of parts in boxes
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
Vairismo
()
Date: May 30, 2011 05:09PM
I have thought about this and I think if the adapters were made to fit the hub centers like the stock wheels,
then the strength would alright. Seems to me most FWD cars use wheels with a positive offset bias so the
adapter would tend to make them more centered. So kind of six of one, half a dozen of the other hassle
wise in my view. No, I haven't done it though, this is just my thinking.
then the strength would alright. Seems to me most FWD cars use wheels with a positive offset bias so the
adapter would tend to make them more centered. So kind of six of one, half a dozen of the other hassle
wise in my view. No, I haven't done it though, this is just my thinking.
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
gmorphan
()
Date: May 30, 2011 05:36PM
I used some once on a S-10 to adapter 16" mid-90's Z28 wheels. I got the wheels and adapters from Tire Rack, the wheels were cheap...the adapters weren't. They were nice adapters though and used a hub-centric design. Meaning the adapter was a slip-fit over the vehicle hub and the new wheel also has a hub to help guide. They worked fine, but due to the widened track your new wheels need to have more positive offset.
I don't like the looks of the adapters with 3 bolt patterns....looks too weak for my liking,
I'd go LM front hubs and Greenbrier rear axles to end up with 5-lug. Probably less money too!
I don't like the looks of the adapters with 3 bolt patterns....looks too weak for my liking,
I'd go LM front hubs and Greenbrier rear axles to end up with 5-lug. Probably less money too!
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
SFC SHOP
()
Date: May 30, 2011 08:09PM
Late model hubs and 5 bolt rear axles are the way to go, just like Craig said.
S. Johnson Ft. Myers, Fl.
S. Johnson Ft. Myers, Fl.
Attachments:
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
tkalp
()
Date: May 30, 2011 08:13PM
There are many who would not agree but the solution I like is to use on of the original lug locations, then drill 4 other holes front and back. This gives you a 5lug on 4.5" bolt circle that the early Tempests (and Ford and MoPar during the '60's) used. One the rear axles you will need to chose your starting point wisely so you don't end up needing to locate a stud in the middle of the large hole used to access the backing plate nuts.
Why I like this solution . . . 1)cheap no extra parts to buy except a few lugs and nuts. Many reproduction Chevy rally wheels come with a dual 5 on 4.75 and 5 on 4.5 bolt patterns so they will bolt right on. 2) You can use standard offset wheels and don't have to worry about the extra width of the spacers or LM front and Greenbrier axles. 3) Any compentent machine shop will be able to do the work, no need to pay shipping charges and wait for the Post Office.
BTW did you ever check with any of the Rally wheel reproducers to see if they could make a set of wheels to fit your 4 lug?
Anyway whatever solution you use, post photos so that we can enjoy your pretty wheels too.
Terry Kalp
Wichita, KS
Why I like this solution . . . 1)cheap no extra parts to buy except a few lugs and nuts. Many reproduction Chevy rally wheels come with a dual 5 on 4.75 and 5 on 4.5 bolt patterns so they will bolt right on. 2) You can use standard offset wheels and don't have to worry about the extra width of the spacers or LM front and Greenbrier axles. 3) Any compentent machine shop will be able to do the work, no need to pay shipping charges and wait for the Post Office.
BTW did you ever check with any of the Rally wheel reproducers to see if they could make a set of wheels to fit your 4 lug?
Anyway whatever solution you use, post photos so that we can enjoy your pretty wheels too.
Terry Kalp
Wichita, KS
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
UGLYTRUK
()
Date: June 05, 2011 05:06AM
Do front hubs slip rite on?
So tkalp, you're saying the repro wheels really have 2 bolt patterns? 10 holes???
If I have the rear axles re-drilled, one of the original bolt holes is still usable? So the machine shop drills 4 more holes? I guess the circle is the same, just the bolt count is different?
So tkalp, you're saying the repro wheels really have 2 bolt patterns? 10 holes???
If I have the rear axles re-drilled, one of the original bolt holes is still usable? So the machine shop drills 4 more holes? I guess the circle is the same, just the bolt count is different?
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
MattNall
()
Date: June 05, 2011 05:24AM
Yes Andrew!! yes!!! gg
MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
............v8........................................PG...................................Turbo
MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
............v8........................................PG...................................Turbo
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
tkalp
()
Date: June 06, 2011 02:51AM
Andrew,
The LM and EM front hubs and spindles are not the same and will not interchange, you would have to swap the entire crossmember.
Some of the replacement rally wheels have dual bolt patterns (10 lug holes) So you will need to check the ones you are looking at to make sure they have that feature if you use the redrilled 5 on 4.5" hubs (need to redrill front and rear hubs).
Terry Kalp
Wichita, KS
The LM and EM front hubs and spindles are not the same and will not interchange, you would have to swap the entire crossmember.
Some of the replacement rally wheels have dual bolt patterns (10 lug holes) So you will need to check the ones you are looking at to make sure they have that feature if you use the redrilled 5 on 4.5" hubs (need to redrill front and rear hubs).
Terry Kalp
Wichita, KS
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
steve c goodman
()
Date: June 06, 2011 12:53PM
Actually you can swap spindle/bearing assembly as a unit between EM and LM. The disadvantage is you still get to use shims to adjust camber, if you swap the entire suspension x member then you gain the camber bolts and a better selection of shocks.
The rear is where the problems start to add up. The small EM brakes are mismatched to the larger LM fronts. Better to add the FC axles with larger brakes.
OR Terry's first idea of just redrilling both ends, either to GM or to Ford/Chrysler. Only disadvantage with that is you still have minimum brakes.
Sincere regards, Steve
1962 spyder 3.0L turbo 1966 corsa 140/4
1968 monza 110/4 1971 Amante GT 110/4
Golden, Colo. CORSA/RMC/PPCC
The rear is where the problems start to add up. The small EM brakes are mismatched to the larger LM fronts. Better to add the FC axles with larger brakes.
OR Terry's first idea of just redrilling both ends, either to GM or to Ford/Chrysler. Only disadvantage with that is you still have minimum brakes.
Sincere regards, Steve
1962 spyder 3.0L turbo 1966 corsa 140/4
1968 monza 110/4 1971 Amante GT 110/4
Golden, Colo. CORSA/RMC/PPCC
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
UGLYTRUK
()
Date: June 06, 2011 01:22PM
Thx Steve... Hmmm... bigger brakes, and I have a whole bunch of re-built car axles... Hmmm...
And now I remember the cam-bolt A Arm adjusters on LM's...
And now I remember the cam-bolt A Arm adjusters on LM's...
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
ColoradoJustin
()
Date: June 06, 2011 02:59PM
Dont do it. We have a shop here in Denver that redrilled mine for ~$130 bucks for all four. That included the new studs. If interested PM and I will give you the information.
Justin...
Justin...
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
Wabbitkiller
()
Date: June 06, 2011 03:17PM
UGLYTRUK Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> A friend just passed by with an early 70's Triumph
> Spitfire. He bought very nicely machined adapters
> to install VW Jetta wheels onto his Spitfire.
>
> I would like to put 5 hole Chevy Rallye wheels on
> my '64 Monza. Would the 5 lug wheels protrude too
> far with the 7/16 or 1/2 thick spacers? He used
> front drive wheels, which of course have the wheel
> spider sitting at the outside edge of the rim,
> like all front drive cars.
>
> Here's the link...ebay.com/importsplanet
>
> [stores.ebay.com]
> d-/_i.html?_fsub=15&_sid=60030758&_trksid=p4634.c0
> .m322
I'd venture a guess that stock chevy 5 lug wheels WOULD protrude too far because of the fact that the adapters are going to throw your offset off because of the space they take up.
Chris
1965 Monza 95 Convertible 4 speed
Olathe, KS (Kansas City)
-------------------------------------------------------
> A friend just passed by with an early 70's Triumph
> Spitfire. He bought very nicely machined adapters
> to install VW Jetta wheels onto his Spitfire.
>
> I would like to put 5 hole Chevy Rallye wheels on
> my '64 Monza. Would the 5 lug wheels protrude too
> far with the 7/16 or 1/2 thick spacers? He used
> front drive wheels, which of course have the wheel
> spider sitting at the outside edge of the rim,
> like all front drive cars.
>
> Here's the link...ebay.com/importsplanet
>
> [stores.ebay.com]
> d-/_i.html?_fsub=15&_sid=60030758&_trksid=p4634.c0
> .m322
I'd venture a guess that stock chevy 5 lug wheels WOULD protrude too far because of the fact that the adapters are going to throw your offset off because of the space they take up.
Chris
1965 Monza 95 Convertible 4 speed
Olathe, KS (Kansas City)
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
WhenIm64
()
Date: June 06, 2011 03:17PM
steve c goodman Wrote:
> Actually you can swap spindle/bearing assembly as
> a unit between EM and LM. The disadvantage is you
> still get to use shims to adjust camber, if you
> swap the entire suspension x member then you gain
> the camber bolts and a better selection of shocks.
Correct. See car in photo, which has the complete LM front suspension.
> The rear is where the problems start to add up.
> The small EM brakes are mismatched to the larger
> LM fronts. Better to add the FC axles with larger
> brakes.
Correct but: The car in the photo has the FC axles, and spacers to accommodate LM rear brakes. But an unintended consequence is a severely limited wheel/tire selection, due to the longer FC axle placing everything closer to the fender lip. I have resisted flaring the fenders because this is a nice straight un-rusted body.
--Bob Marlow
> Actually you can swap spindle/bearing assembly as
> a unit between EM and LM. The disadvantage is you
> still get to use shims to adjust camber, if you
> swap the entire suspension x member then you gain
> the camber bolts and a better selection of shocks.
Correct. See car in photo, which has the complete LM front suspension.
> The rear is where the problems start to add up.
> The small EM brakes are mismatched to the larger
> LM fronts. Better to add the FC axles with larger
> brakes.
Correct but: The car in the photo has the FC axles, and spacers to accommodate LM rear brakes. But an unintended consequence is a severely limited wheel/tire selection, due to the longer FC axle placing everything closer to the fender lip. I have resisted flaring the fenders because this is a nice straight un-rusted body.
--Bob Marlow
Attachments:
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
steve c goodman
()
Date: June 07, 2011 02:05AM
Hello Bob: You probably know the answer and save me from trying to look up the info: what is the difference in area between LM rear brakes and FC rear brakes?
Sincere regards, Steve
1962 spyder 3.0L turbo 1966 corsa 140/4
1968 monza 110/4 1971 Amante GT 110/4
Golden, Colo. CORSA/RMC/PPCC
Sincere regards, Steve
1962 spyder 3.0L turbo 1966 corsa 140/4
1968 monza 110/4 1971 Amante GT 110/4
Golden, Colo. CORSA/RMC/PPCC
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
WhenIm64
()
Date: June 07, 2011 03:48AM
steve c goodman Wrote:
> Hello Bob: You probably know the answer and save
> me from trying to look up the info: what is the
> difference in area between LM rear brakes and FC
> rear brakes?
Alas, Steve, I do not know. I elected to go with LM rear brakes only because I thought that they would better pair up with the LM fronts, and because I wanted to be able to fit 13-inch wheels.
--Bob
> Hello Bob: You probably know the answer and save
> me from trying to look up the info: what is the
> difference in area between LM rear brakes and FC
> rear brakes?
Alas, Steve, I do not know. I elected to go with LM rear brakes only because I thought that they would better pair up with the LM fronts, and because I wanted to be able to fit 13-inch wheels.
--Bob
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
ccpinc
()
Date: June 07, 2011 02:49PM
We offer redrilled rear axles, front hub assemblies and front & rear drums. Easy bolt-on parts with no modifications required. We can furnish the axles with rebuilt bearings too.
Jeff Williams
California Corvair Parts, Inc.
15090 La Palma Drive
Chino, California 91710
(951) 284-3555
Fax (909) 287-0744
CACorvairs@aol.com
www.CaliforniaCorvairParts.com
Jeff Williams
California Corvair Parts, Inc.
15090 La Palma Drive
Chino, California 91710
(951) 284-3555
Fax (909) 287-0744
CACorvairs@aol.com
www.CaliforniaCorvairParts.com
Attachments:
Re: Would Wheel Adapters Be A Good Way To Convert From 4 To 5 Lug Wheels?
Posted by:
steve c goodman
()
Date: June 08, 2011 03:44AM
steve c goodman Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Bob: You probably know the answer and save
> me from trying to look up the info: what is the
> difference in area between LM rear brakes and FC
> rear brakes?
Steve finds the answer:
EM: 120.8 sq inches
FC: 167.10 sq inches
LM: 169.0 sq inches
Trivia that apparently no one cares about except Bob and I. BTW: your track car looks GREAT!!!!!!
Sincere regards, Steve
1962 spyder 3.0L turbo 1966 corsa 140/4
1968 monza 110/4 1971 Amante GT 110/4
Golden, Colo. CORSA/RMC/PPCC
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hello Bob: You probably know the answer and save
> me from trying to look up the info: what is the
> difference in area between LM rear brakes and FC
> rear brakes?
Steve finds the answer:
EM: 120.8 sq inches
FC: 167.10 sq inches
LM: 169.0 sq inches
Trivia that apparently no one cares about except Bob and I.
Sincere regards, Steve
1962 spyder 3.0L turbo 1966 corsa 140/4
1968 monza 110/4 1971 Amante GT 110/4
Golden, Colo. CORSA/RMC/PPCC
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