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Dual 34mm Weber ICT Carburetors
Posted by: gtochief ()
Date: March 25, 2011 09:55PM

I was just at a VW junkyard and was lucky enough to acquire a 110hp w/ PG drivetrain that was on a trike. The PO had installed a set of Weber 34 ICT carbs.
Anyone with experience, good or bad, with this setup?
(I plan to put the whole drivetrain in a shortened corvair frame for autocrossing.)

Billy Cannon
Cannon Automotive
Goodwater, AL

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Re: Dual 34mm Weber ICT Carburetors
Posted by: j3m ()
Date: March 26, 2011 01:50AM

The baby Webers are great carbs when new.
They are dirt cheap in terms of cost new.
They are fairly primitive and simple in VW application. There are NO CHOKES.
These 34mm ICT Webers WILL REQUIRE 3.5 PSI FUEL PRESSURE MAX. Like all WEBER carbs if you get away from this and do not USE A FUEL REGULATOR or an Electric Fuel Pump rated 3.5 PSI MAX, you'll likely get operational problems related to this that will make you think the problem is the carbs or something else.

Now, for the Ten Million Dollar Question,,, ???? hmmm ... They are a pair of old 34 ICT carbs that were sitting on a Vair powerplant in a VW junk yard. If the engine and its carbs had been there for longer than 3 weeks and no one bothered to PICK Clean the Weber 34 ICT carbs for use on their VW, should tell you that the 34 ICT carbs on that Vair engine may be too raggedy for VW folk to mess with. If that is the case, then those old 34 ICT carbs will be no better and could be in worse shape than the Rochester HV junk that is deemed acceptable to use on Corvairs.
Yes, the build quality of those 34 ICT carbs was superior to the HV Rochesters when new. Almost all Webers, Dellortos, Solexes, Hitachis, Kadrons,SU's etc have a production build quality and control tolerances that exceed the junk HV 's quality control. The thing is sure GM cut corners and saved money and produced barely acceptable garbage like the HV, but even though it was garbage, they got it a little better through trial & error and just because they had to since it was so bad... Well Engineering excellence, certainly NOT but from a lowest cost containment, they did the minimal to get by by early 1960's standards.
Unless those ICT 34 carbs are in great shape and you have an expertly designed linkeage system in place on that Vair engine, then you will be safer having a top HV Rochester ace like Steve Goodman work his magic on a set of HV's and unjunk them to better than GM '60's functionality.
Many carb set ups can be used on a Corvair. The main thing is YOU, then become the ENGINEER and CREW CHIEF.... If you know what you're doing it is not hard, but if you don't, it will be frustrating until you do know enough.
Typically ICT 34 for VW use don't have Chokes or much of anything else. Can you live without Chokes ?

The ICT 34 carbs are inexpensive and extremely basic and can be quite adjustable. ICT 34 rebuild kits are available nearly everywhere and cost almost nothing. There are hundreds of thousands of them in use. THERE IS A LOT OF INFORMATION ON SETTING THEM UP & RUNNING THEM ON PLENTY OF APPLICATIONS, but there as almost nil information for users of the NADER 6.
It doesn't mean that they can't be. JET THEM ADEQUATELY/EXPERT DESIGN LINKEAGE, etc. It is after all just a carburetor! As bad as the Rochester HV carbs are, they were designed and set-up specifically for the NADER 6.
Plenty of MacGyvers have shown their capabilities to far exceed the standard of the world , HV that came from the General fifty years ago.
The thing is many of these Carburetor MacGyvers are disappearing daily due to old age and because the personal computer and the world wide web came upon the scene far too late for them, much of these magical carburetor tinkering/wizardry talents are going to the grave with them.
There is just no way of getting carburetors to do what can be done today with EFI, even if you possessed all the experience/carb talent of the finest 96 yr old Carb Master.
Get with the program. The calendar says 2011. Gasoline isn't what it once was. It is 10% Ethanol and will soon be 15%. My opinion is that the Ted Brown approach is the perhaps only sane approach if you wish to have the most driveable and reliable Corvair. The cost to do so isn't great. More is known now than just two years ago, thanks to pioneering, Mr. Brown. Ted may be the Yuri Gargarin (first man in space) , as well as perhaps Chuck Yeager, John Glenn, Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin....etc of the Corvair world.
Really, today is the time to seriously consider EFI for your Corvair. By the time that you fart around with a carburetor set-up and the TIME & COSTS associated with getting it to run reasonably OK on todays fuel, one could go follow the BROWN route and run 87 octane fuel, with no worry about re-jetting for altitude or sea-level etc. Better Reliabilty. Drive Anywhere. Probably better MPG too, while using REGULAR 87 octane GASOLINE (the least expensive gas available). What is really amazing is that someone like Ted Brown did actually invent a system using 20+ year old common GM components and his own chip burning wizardry to tailor his system.


The Weber ICT 34 carbs should work well provided that they are set-up well for your application. The same could be said for factory Rochester HV carbs. At best, there are always some slight drawbacks/compromises with carbs. These deficiencies will be exponentially magnified based on the age/condition of whatever carb that is chosen. If one chooses a carb that is too big for the engine, usually the attempts to do so, are very poor overall driveability.
In a nutshell, it is hard to say, a very mixed bag....
One set of carbs built by a single Corvair carb expert may be outstanding and the ones built by other leading expert Corvair carb rebuilders may be anywhere from mediocre to just barely functional/problematic. It isn't entirely the fault of the expert builders, because after all these carbs are now 50 years old and when new they were closer to barely functional/problematic much more so than just mediocre.
You can get alternative carbs to function superior than factory carbs if the carb(s) chosen is new and expertly set-up for the application. This is much much harder than many seem to think as you have Linkeage issues, Jetting Issues, Fuel Flow Requirements, Intake Manifold design, ...etc, etc...

Give it a shot, if you like, but if you intend to spend a considerable amount of money & time to do so, on either alternative carburetion or rebuilding OEM factory Rochester HV carbs, you ought to give serious consideration to modern improvement through EFI and leave the carbs in the past with other things like points, bias ply tires, and ancient mono AM or mono AM/FM pushbutton radios...

[www.thesamba.com]

[www.chirco.com]

[www.piercemanifolds.com]

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Re: Dual 34mm Weber ICT Carburetors
Posted by: gtochief ()
Date: April 04, 2011 03:23PM

Finally got around to attempt a bench test of the engine this weekend. Even with plugs out rotating by hand seems extremely 'tight'. We decided to put the block on the shelf for a later time. We pulled all the chrome cowling, acessories, etc. and of course the carbs. Installed the whole weber setup on my '65 Monza daily driver. (4spd, slight cam w/ ultimate headers, elec. fuel pump) WOW! What a performance improvement. VERY noticeable difference in throttle response all through the gears. Cruising at 70MPH, 3K RPM, Mash the 'go' pedal and she pullls strong all the way to 85 and 4.5K. Started right up 1st time at 40degrees outside temp this morning, I drove to work (65 miles) and used 1/8th of a tank. I'm going to fill up on my way home and do an economy run through the week.
So far I am duly impressed and pleased with my "Baby Webers"!

Billy Cannon
Cannon Automotive
Goodwater, AL

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Re: Dual 34mm Weber ICT Carburetors
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: April 04, 2011 03:33PM

If you don't post pictures of this set-up, it's not really on there. Love to see it!

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Re: Dual 34mm Weber ICT Carburetors
Posted by: gtochief ()
Date: April 04, 2011 04:34PM

PICs will be posted this evening after I get home.

Billy Cannon
Cannon Automotive
Goodwater, AL

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Re: Dual 34mm Weber ICT Carburetors
Posted by: j3m ()
Date: April 04, 2011 08:21PM

Here is a link to SEP 82 Popular Mechanics article on Weber 34 ICT
[books.google.com]#


ICT 34mm SET UP & ADJUSTMENT:
[www.chirco.com]
[www.aircooledaddiction.com]
see the chart showing Weber factory settings for 34ICT at this shoptalk link scroll slightly down page
[www.shoptalkforums.com]

more somewhat related ICT 34mm discussions
[www.aircooled.net]
In the discussion above , re: ICT 34mm baby webers, there is mention of the Baby Dells (Dellorto FRD's aka Baby Dells or sometimes known as "Freds") The Baby Dells have not been produced since at least the late 1980's, but are very much like the Baby Webers. The Baby Dells were known to be somewhat superior to the Baby Webers in providing larger power boost in VW applications and were more popular at one point in time, 30+ yrs ago.

[www.thesamba.com]
[www.cbperformance.com]
[weber-usa.com]

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Pair of Weber 40 IDF 19 Carburetors For Sale
Posted by: vairchet ()
Date: April 04, 2011 08:23PM

I have pair of Weber 40 IDF carburetors that I stripped from a junk Corvair 140hp dune buggy. If anyone has desire to acquire, please PM me. Priced cheap.

Attachments:


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Pair of Weber 40 IDF 19 Carburetors For Sale
Posted by: vairchet ()
Date: April 04, 2011 08:26PM

Couple more photos of Weber carburetors:

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Re: Dual 34mm Weber ICT Carburetors
Posted by: gtochief ()
Date: April 04, 2011 08:32PM

On the way home this afternoon, my temporary 'testing only' fuel line system developed a (thankfully) small leak. But here are the promised pictures:
The weber to corvair intake adaptors are attached by allen heads thru the shouldered aluminum plate. The webers fit well with no obstructions across the accelerator linkage. original accelerator rod was shortened by PO and bolted right up.

Billy Cannon
Cannon Automotive
Goodwater, AL

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Re: Dual 34mm Weber ICT Carburetors
Posted by: gtochief ()
Date: April 04, 2011 08:36PM

MORE:
And now to run correct fuel lines, complete shroud installation and 'pretty up'!

Billy Cannon
Cannon Automotive
Goodwater, AL

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Re: Dual 34mm Weber ICT Carburetors
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 04, 2011 08:46PM

Marv runs those on his 140 Spyder.... 25-30 years.. he loves them!





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Re: Dual 34mm Weber ICT Carburetors
Posted by: gtochief ()
Date: April 04, 2011 09:51PM

I'm kinda proud of myself with my 'VW junkyard' find:
Set of weber carbs, adaptor plates, chrome filter covers, and all linkage.
Chrome top shroud.
Chrome valve covers.
OTTO deep finned oil pan.
Chrome "Buggy" Headers.
Complete EM rear suspension.
Set of 2 EM 4 bolt chrome wheels.
RH code engine that turns by hand (albeit "TIGHT").
Working EM PG and 3:55 diff.

And to answer j3m's "Ten Million Dollar" question:
Because it had been well covered on a pallet for two years, and who wants just a bunch of old corvair parts anyway.winking smiley

Billy Cannon
Cannon Automotive
Goodwater, AL

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