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Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: gatorfrey ()
Date: January 16, 2011 06:56PM

I just split the block on my barn-find that has been sitting for 30 years, that came from my corsa I had back then.
My questions.
(1) I have an OTTO oil pan with the horizontal baffle. If I tap the block for the oil tempature sender,per Finch's book,on the passenger rear lower part of the block, will it actually still sit in oil well enough to rely on if I keep it at the full mark on the dipstick? I do not want to pan mount it.This will be kinda important as I have replaced the head temp gauge with an oil tempature gauge on my modified dash.
(2) I asked this on before, and no one answered.
Oil pressure. I know you can streach the spring,or put washers on it. But, it seems I read somewhere you could use the Z28 black strip 65lb spring from a small block V8, to kick it up to 65 pounds. But I cannot confirm this. I would not mind at all doing it, as there would be no guesswork as to what it would come to installed. Assume I have a good reason for kicking it up a little. It, and the car, wll be modified.
So, has anyone else heard of using the black stripe Z28 oil spring, or no?
Just checking with da pros.
Thanks!
Wayne

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: acardon ()
Date: January 16, 2011 07:49PM

The oil level will be the same, no matter which pan you use, so the sensor will be in the oil. You have to put more oil in, with the OTTO pan.
I don't know about the V-8 spring, but too much pressure can blow oil past the seals.

Don
Southlake, Texas
The Trunk Belongs in Front, Ask Any Elephant
Caution: Images in This Mirror May be Waterpumpers

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 16, 2011 07:50PM

no reason not to try it.


Oil temp in the pan is useless..except as a reference... that's the hottest oil

Bottom of the oil cooler is oil going directly to the bearings...

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: gatorfrey ()
Date: January 17, 2011 03:29AM

So, the best place for a temp sender on a remote oil cooled engine is just past a remote mounted cooler somewhere? Perhaps tapping in just before it returns to the block then.
And the return line goes into the block, and feeds straight to the bearings?

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: gatorfrey ()
Date: January 17, 2011 06:31AM

If the return oil passes the factory oil pressure sender location,perhaps mounting something clever there where it will not interfer with the belt would be the best place?

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: LeeS ()
Date: January 17, 2011 02:31PM

Anyone mount a temp sender here in the plug by the oil pump?

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: seanvair ()
Date: January 18, 2011 08:46PM

There is a part that replaces the stock oil filter bolt that is called Adapt-A-Bolt from Clark's and allows the use of oil pressure, oil temperature sender unit. The part no. is C7521 pg.27D in Clark's Corvair Parts catalog. As for the oil pressure spring I'm not too sure about- You probably need a oil pressure gauge to know how much pressure the engine is putting out. I hope this helps. -Seanvair

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: aircooled ()
Date: January 19, 2011 08:53AM

I really don't see that as a problem. The lower block tap should give you the hot oil coming off the bearings. This seems like a much more useful temp then the temp of the oil going into the bearings.

If you measure the temp going in, you have no idea how hot the oil is actually getting, or how hot your bearings are getting.

If you take an extreme (and totally unrealistic) example: A super oil cooler that cools the oil to 100 deg, but the engine is super heating the oil for some reason to 450 degrees. A cooler setup will show 100 degrees, and pan setup will show 450 degrees. Which is more useful information?

If you have two gauges, a cooler output would be nice (to show the efficiency of you cooler), but with one guage, I would go with the pan. That is how mine is setup.

Regarding the spring: That will ONLY effect the cold oil pressure!!! It will have NO effect on the (critical) hot oil pressure (unless it is super super high). It only effects what high pressure the oil is bypassed at. The bypass is there to prevent too much pressure, not control general pressure.



MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Oil temp in the pan is useless..except as a
> reference... that's the hottest oil
>
> Bottom of the oil cooler is oil going directly
> to the bearings...

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: vairchet ()
Date: January 19, 2011 10:27AM

An oil pressure relief spring that has too much tension, especially when cold, is guaranteed to blow the oil filter gaskets. 35psi at operating temperature is enough to do an excellent job at lubricating all moving components within any Corvair engine.

Another thing to consider: The amount of stress placed upon brass drive gear mounted on crankshaft and driven gear roll pin on distributor shaft. I'll guarantee those parts will wear out prematurely when using oversized pumps and excessive oil relief pressure.

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: gatorfrey ()
Date: January 19, 2011 02:00PM

With a front mount cooler? I knew about the high volumes reportedly breaking distributer shafts.So I decided to step back from that. So, keep the stock spring?
Racers.... Advise please.

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: wagbear ()
Date: May 16, 2011 10:47AM

So...am wondering.... If the relief spring was shortened, would that lower the pressure also ? My idle and operating pressure is 40 lbs....but, I'm running straight 30W, which Richard1 said not to use...so I'll put in some 10W 30W and see if there's an immediate change.

WAGBEAR
1961 Lakewood
Chehalis, Washington
( South of Canada...North of Mexico....Near Olympia ; Planet Earth . smiling smiley

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: Richard ()
Date: May 16, 2011 12:24PM

As aircooled pointed out, a temp sender after the cooler will tell you how well the cooler is working.
You should not give up the Cylinder Head Temp gauge for the oil temp gauge. If you loose a fan belt or a forgotten rag gets sucked into the shroud, the CHT will rise well ahead of the oil temp, especially with an external oil cooler.
Oil temp lags behind engine temp. It is slower to warm up and slower to cool down.

>>OTTO oil pan with the horizontal baffle<<

Are you talking about the baffle spacer that drops the pan down about 3/4"? Are you using the stock pickup tube? If you are, you need an extra qt of oil to prevent starvation when cornering. That allows you to use the stock dipstick full mark and the block mounted temp sender.
This will require noticably longer warm-up times, especially in the winter.

If you use a longer pick-up tube and 5 qt of oil, you must remark the dipstick and mount the temp sender lower.

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: mechanicalman ()
Date: October 06, 2011 01:16PM

LeeS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyone mount a temp sender here in the plug by the
> oil pump?

Yeah, I'd like to know that too. That plug is connected to the main oil galley I believe. That'd be the perfect place to take the oil temp.

What exactly is that plug called? It's kind of ignored in the service manual and I had trouble finding anything about it in the forum.

I can't even find it in the Clark's catalog.

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 06, 2011 01:21PM

Just read a few replies back...ggg


The the Oil Pump Pressure relief valve .. oil is un cooled there...

you want to know what temperature the oil is as it enters the oil galleries to the bearings..

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: mechanicalman ()
Date: October 06, 2011 02:35PM

Isn't the oil pressure relief the bolt above the pump? I'm talking about that tiny freeze plug looking guy right below the oil pump cover in the picture.

I've got a rear engine cover on my table right now and it looks like it connects directly to the main galley.

I outlined what i thought was the main oil galley in red and stuck a 1/8" NPT oil temp sender where the plug I was talking about was (knocked it out with a brass punch). The hole is too big to accept the threads, but I suppose it could be made to work. But I would think that the little steel pipe (yellow arrow) would provide the oil from the main galley to that sender. That also seems to be what's illustrated in the shop manual lubrication diagram.

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just read a few replies back...ggg
>
>
> The the Oil Pump Pressure relief valve .. oil is
> un cooled there...
>
> you want to know what temperature the oil is as
> it enters the oil galleries to the bearings..

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: LeeS ()
Date: October 06, 2011 02:39PM

The red "P" is the location of the plug, which seals the hole necessary to install the sleeve (red "S") which provides the cooled oil (yellow) to the other side of the crankshaft and on to the channels in the case for the bearings.

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: October 06, 2011 02:41PM

AHH.. "I SEE" said the blind man, as he winked his wooden eyes!!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: LeeS ()
Date: October 06, 2011 02:43PM

Whoa, you beat me to it. That is exactly what I had in mind...

I guess it works.

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: mechanicalman ()
Date: October 06, 2011 02:49PM

sooooooo, has somebody put a temp sender there?

maybe weld up the hole and drill it for an 1/8" npt fitting?

i like bench racing and all, but i don't really like being a guinea pig. ggg



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/06/2011 02:51PM by mechanicalman.

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Re: Oil level,sender, and pressure question
Posted by: LeeS ()
Date: October 06, 2011 02:53PM

They drilled the hole to install the sleeve. Then they plugged the hole.

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