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How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 06, 2011 07:34PM

Russ Morehouse found this site with comparisons.

I ran across this site while wanting to compare Corvair acceleration (0-60 mph)
performance against Porsche. The early 1960 and 1961 Corvairs, couldn't compete
with what the low cost Porsche's could do. But in 1962 the Corvair Spyder came
out and it blew the Porsche's out of the water, even the non-supercharged
engines were now able to keep pace with the Porsche's. I compared the 1961
Porsche 1600, the 1964 356C, the 1965 912 Porsche and the 1966 Porsche 911,
which was out of the price range of a Corvair. All the Porsche's ran about
$2,000.00 more than a Corvair, but the 911 was more than double the price of a
Corvair. A '65 Corvair Corsa Sprint, a lightly modified,non supercharged engine
which out performed the supercharged engine, would do 0-60 in 9.9 seconds with a
3.55 axle. If it had the 3.89 axle, it would be even quicker. Even though the
911 was twice the price of the Corsa Sprint, it's 0-60 time was only .9 tenths
quicker. Not bad for a cheap American economy car that sold for less than $3K.

1961 Porsche 1600 14.4 Seconds Over $3K
1964 Porsche 356C 13.5 Seconds $4574.00
1965 Porsche 912 11.5-12 Seconds $4961.00
1966 Porsche 911 9.0 Seconds $6500.00

1960 Corvair bottom of the line 19.5 Seconds $2K
1962 Corvair Monza Spyder (turbocharged) 10.5 Seconds $2569.00
1964 Corvair Monza (convertible) 14 seconds $2481.00
1965 Corvair Corsa (turbocharged) 10.2 Seconds $2465,00
1965 Corvair Corsa Sprint 9.9 Seconds $2983.00

[members.rennlist.com]

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: lgoodwin ()
Date: January 06, 2011 09:24PM

Interesting info. Of course, the pricing comparison is rather misleading.
The production cost of the Corvair line was very high relative to the sticker price. GM was able to sell the Corvair for such a low price because it did not compete with their other products (unlike Ford, Chrysler, Studebaker). During the Corvair years, GM was making so much money they could afford to sell Corvairs under cost. I doubt Porsche could have done that.

1962 Corvair 900 sedan1967 Corvair Monza 140/4-speed1968 Corvair 500 coupe1983 Mexican Mustang 5.0
1962 900 sedan needs a home1967 Monza 140/4-spd1968 500 coupe (now my son's)1983 Mexican Mustang 5.0

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: Mark M ()
Date: January 06, 2011 09:50PM

Somewhere I have a one-page chart with a brief paragraph by Finch or Fitch, not sure which, that very favorable compares a 180 with 2 or 3 different Porches. Compares 0-60, 1/4 mile, etc. Porsche wins on top speed, I think. But, Corsa is right with the Porsches on 1/4 mile and 0-60.

Mark M
Project: 64 Spyder Vert
1st Vair: 65 Corsa
St. Louis, MO
Show Me Corvair Club &
CORSA member

"If it's not broken, you're not driving it hard enough"

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: upnorth1 ()
Date: January 06, 2011 11:38PM

Don't know about all that stuff Matt, but back in 1969 when I was young and foolish, my 65 coupe 140 PG w/ smashed up front end would do 103 on the drive to the family cabin.

Now I am no longer young.

Chaplain Bob
135 miles from Canada

AT THE TIP OF LAKE SUPERIOR
1961 Loadside 110 140 4 speed, 30 over. 4 speed
1966 Corsa clone
1966 4 door 110 pg

DON'T mess with Old Men, we didn't get old by being, STUPID!!!

\/ this is a mile from my house... \/

Click for Hermantown, Minnesota Forecast



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2011 11:39PM by upnorth1.

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: Mark M ()
Date: January 07, 2011 02:57PM

From How to Keep Your Corvair Alive, by Finch.

Mark M
Project: 64 Spyder Vert
1st Vair: 65 Corsa
St. Louis, MO
Show Me Corvair Club &
CORSA member

"If it's not broken, you're not driving it hard enough"

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: slow61 ()
Date: January 07, 2011 03:38PM

Something is Wonky with Fitch's 1/4 mi times.

911S .2 slower than Vair but 13mph higher trap speed?

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: Bob Helt ()
Date: January 07, 2011 03:54PM

lgoodwin said........

Interesting info. Of course, the pricing comparison is rather misleading.
The production cost of the Corvair line was very high relative to the sticker price. GM was able to sell the Corvair for such a low price because it did not compete with their other products (unlike Ford, Chrysler, Studebaker). During the Corvair years, GM was making so much money they could afford to sell Corvairs under cost. I doubt Porsche could have done that.

Bob replies.....

While the above statements could possibly be true,it is an assumption on his part. There is no record of such information ever being released by Chevrolet or GM. Where is it authoritarily documented that Chevrolet was selling Corvairs under cost? Prove it.

Regards,
Bob Helt

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: vairyhard ()
Date: January 07, 2011 08:05PM

"Something is Wonky with Fitch's 1/4 mi times"

Not necessarily; There's quick and there's fast.

Corvair was quicker (notice torque figures) to finish line. Though Porsche was going faster at finish line, it still could not overtake Corvair in time.

Granted, had both cars continued for over 1/4 mile, Porsche would likely have quickly overtaken Corvair.

Kevin

Quartz Hill, CA
'65 Crown

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: January 07, 2011 08:20PM

vairyhard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Something is Wonky with Fitch's 1/4 mi times"
>
> Not necessarily; There's quick and there's fast.
>
> Corvair was quicker (notice torque figures) to
> finish line. Though Porsche was going faster at
> finish line, it still could not overtake Corvair
> in time.
>
> Granted, had both cars continued for over 1/4
> mile, Porsche would likely have quickly overtaken
> Corvair.
>
> Kevin
>
> Quartz Hill, CA
> '65 Crown

MPH at the finish line is indicative of horsepower. The more horsepower you have, the higher the mph will be. At times, mph can also be a little bit higher depending on wheel spin at the starting line. I doubt that was the case here. But the Porsche clearly was making more power if the mph is higher.

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: Ray Chappell ()
Date: January 07, 2011 11:17PM

Hince the term "Poor Mans Porsche."

Ray Chappell
Olympia, WA.

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: January 08, 2011 12:40AM

Good discussion and points out the old adage "you advertise horsepower, but you drive torque".

Developing more torque at the tire is simply a matter of changing the axle ratio. That's why drag racers run 4.00 gears, but of course that limits your top speed.

Around 3.00 is great at for high speed cruising (typical of German cars).

Notice the Vair rear axle is 3:55 and the 911S was 3:18.

As Kevin said the Porsche would have won the race to top speed, but the Vair probably lead the Porsche out of the traps.

In drag racing the object is to just hit red line at the end of the 1/4 mile, that and to get as much power to the pavement as possible.

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: slow61 ()
Date: January 08, 2011 12:59AM

vairyhard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Corvair was quicker (notice torque figures) to
> finish line. Though Porsche was going faster at
> finish line, it still could not overtake Corvair
> in time.


Then whats with the vair getting thrashed in the zero to 60 times?

911 7.5
Vair 9.7

Then the porsche falls on its face? Seems unlikely.

So the 911 gets from zero to 60 more than 2 seconds earlier, and then accelerates 30 more mph over the rest of the 1/4. The vair is 2 seconds behind at 60, but manages to make up that 2.4 seconds some while only adding 18mph over the rest of the 1/4? That doesn't jive.

I'm not expert, but I've been to the track a few times. That isht ain't right.

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: gnvair ()
Date: January 08, 2011 01:20AM

slow61 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> vairyhard Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> >
> > Corvair was quicker (notice torque figures) to
> > finish line. Though Porsche was going faster at
> > finish line, it still could not overtake
> Corvair
> > in time.
>
>
> Then whats with the vair getting thrashed in the
> zero to 60 times?
>
> 911 7.5
> Vair 9.7
>
> Then the porsche falls on its face? Seems
> unlikely.
>
> So the 911 gets from zero to 60 more than 2
> seconds earlier, and then accelerates 30 more mph
> over the rest of the 1/4. The vair is 2 seconds
> behind at 60, but manages to make up that 2.4
> seconds some while only adding 18mph over the rest
> of the 1/4? That doesn't jive.
>
> I'm not expert, but I've been to the track a few
> times. That isht ain't right.


I agree with you. I have that same page and I always have felt that it was an error because the Corvair 1/4 mile ET is about 2 seconds too fast for that mph.
A 17.6@ 78 would be more likely IMHO.
If you look at all of the road tests on 65-66 turbo models you will find most of them have the Vair running 17 and 18 second ET's.

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 08, 2011 01:20AM

Slow....


Beetles and early Porsches had very low 1st & 2nd gears... big jump to 3rd... and 4th was OD!!!

Racing mods always included a Close 3rd... and direct 4th... for buggies and racers...

Why I switched a to a VW trans in my 3rd sandcar... gearing!





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 08, 2011 01:29AM

Next year in Denver.... we all need to ride in Steve G.'s

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo

1968 manx clone 2.7L turbo


You'll see the difference in the gearing.





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: rnch ()
Date: January 08, 2011 02:44AM

i recall my father saying that his EM monza was peppier than his 912 porsche...and with the addition of the addco "camber compensator" bar it didn't oversteer as much as the 912 did.

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: KaptKaos ()
Date: January 08, 2011 04:21AM

Notice that it is a 1965 vair compared to 1976 Porsches. While I won't get into the performance specifications, as they seem to be in-line on the Porsches, I want to touch on the prices.

By 1976, there was a tremendous weakening of the dollar, and European import prices skyrocketed. In less than six years, the cost of a 914 nearly doubled. Part of this was because of increasing emissions controls, but the largest portion was because of inflation. Knowing this, Porsche made lots of cuts to the quality pieces of their cars, particularly the 914. Where there was once metal, or aluminum, there was now plastic. All of this done to try and keep the cars cost competitive.

Why the original author felt the need to do this is beyond me. The Corvair was and still is a performance bargain compared to the Porsches.

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: January 08, 2011 04:52AM

I thought we were discussing the 1st listings... those are same year comparisons...





MODERATOR
Somewhere between Sea Mountain and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
.............................PG...................................Turbo

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: Bryan M ()
Date: January 09, 2011 04:30AM

Quote
i recall my father saying that his EM monza was peppier than his 912 porsche...and with the addition of the addco "camber compensator" bar it didn't oversteer as much as the 912 did.

the pep part may not surprise me, considering the 912 has a 4cyl. (although there does seem to be a bit of a power to weight advantage in the 912)
but the oversteer thing; no way. the 912 has 45/55 balance. i can't get the rear end to break loose. believe me i've tried very hard. the opposing front wheel will come off the ground before the rear end comes out.

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Re: How Fast were our Corvairs in the 60's???
Posted by: YenkoYS-100 ()
Date: January 09, 2011 05:26AM

Go figure.....the red-headed stepchild Stinger left out again. GGGG As per the Yenko 1967 Tech manual........Yenko Stinger 0-60 mph. "The best is about 6.0 seconds".

Rick
YS100

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