lowandslow Wrote:
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> Automotive Writer Ed Wallace was writing in one of
> his recent columns about the high price of good
> late model used cars and said that, becuse of the
> factory discounts and rebates, you can often buy a
> new car of the same model for virtually the same
> price. Personally, the last few new cars I've
> bought, I've kept for 8 to 10 years. Except for
> Corvairs I just don't buy used cars.


That's the only way to come out ahead on a new car: But it new, and drive it until it falls apart. Most people don't do that though.

Chris

1965 Monza 95 Convertible 4 speed

Olathe, KS (Kansas City)

On the other hand USED cars are expensive as well. I wonder what the trade in value was that they give them.. for the new car!!

"Been there and done that! Well Not everything.
Member of Baystate Corvairs
61 Monza 2dr Coupe
65 500 2dr Coupe
63 Greenbrier

I love the $300 they charge for the paperwork to make out a bill of sale and a title. It takes all of 5 minutes at the courthouse in this state.

Layton Curtis Wrote:
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> I love the $300 they charge for the paperwork to
> make out a bill of sale and a title. It takes all
> of 5 minutes at the courthouse in this state.

You guys are killing me! As one who has processed over 700 titles, I GUARANTEE it does not take "5-minutes" to process a title. Yeah, that's the face time at the DMV dealer window but what about finding the payoff, cutting and mailing the check, chasing down the title, mileage, ROL and POA forms and signatures and navigating the laws and practices of the 10 or so local states where vehicles come from and go to? Don't forget the required on-going state training, forms maintenance, and audits. Having said that, it probably comes down to an hour per car, which is more like $150 (burdened labor cost + fees & profit). The extra $150 is pure profit (and sometimes the only profit).

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4-dr, 4.2L V8 49k
66 Monza 140/4 EFI 60k
65 4-dr 110/AC/PG (project)
61 Rampside
62 Rampside (almost done!)
64 GB -CrUnChEd (donor)

20 Tons of parts in boxes

Layton Curtis Wrote:
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> I love the $300 they charge for the paperwork to
> make out a bill of sale and a title. It takes all
> of 5 minutes at the courthouse in this state.

That's why you negotiate an "out the door" price. I know two of the car dealers in town and they're not the bad guys they're made out to be -- they're actually fair and honest. Of course Rochester, MN is a relatively small town and word quickly gets around.

On the other hand, I know of some real crooks. Google Denny Hecker for an example. Denny owned a Rochester dealership for awhile, but word got around (and the dealership manager went to jail -- they didn't get Denny until later).

Dave Keillor
Rochester, MN

Craig has this right here. I grew up in the car business and yes, car dealers make money, some make a lot of money. That said, name one other business that lists what dealers pay for a car all over the internet, yet they fail to include the cost of the dealers floor plan, which is the interest the dealer pays for that lot full of cars that he's ripping everyone off on. The average profit margin on a new car is far lower than what just about anyone on this forum would be willing to accept if they were the one selling it. Yes there are dealers(read employees) that can be less than scrupulous, but they are far outweighed by good, honest dealers.

All dealers want to make a deal and buyers want to be happy. If you feel you got ripped off, odds are you let it happen. No one is forced to sign anything, if it doesn't seem right, don't buy it. Take your time and work out a deal that you can be happy with, whether you're buying from a dealer or private seller. I recently bought a 2010 F-150 with 2,100 miles on it, for all intents and purposes a brand bew truck. It stickered at around $24,500 back in march. I got it 3 weeks ago at a Ford dealer for $16,362.00 out the door. Excellent vehicle that I will put at least as many miles(210K) as I did on my 1996 Ranger that I bought new. I had no burning desire to buy a new car, but this deal couldn't be beat and I need it for work. There are some grat deals out there, take your time and say no when you need to say no.

I also would not buy new unless I knew I'd drive till it dies, and that can take a long time with pretty much any new vehicle. They really are built well, even with the plastic.

Rocco

Buying a car, new or used, is all about preparation. There is a wealth of information on the internet as to values, dealer cost, availability, etc. If an individual goes to a dealership prepared to negotiate a fair deal it will happen. We have bought a number of Honda's over the years from the same salesman at the same dealership. We drive them a minimum of 6 years and usually pass them along to another family member. We do not finance through the dealer and we come prepared to pay cash for the vehicle.(Cash being a check drawn on our Home equity line or a bank loan, credit union or whatever) Our salesman knows we don't buy extended warranties, scotchgard or whatever profit add on they are selling. Both parties are satisfied with the deal and we remain friends. If we have any issues after the purchase they are dealt with in a reasonable manner because neither parties feels that they got taken.
We know people who have bought a car on their lunch hour because it was pretty, or a color they liked, or whatever and then two weeks later hate it and say the dealer took them??

Diane & Jerry Thomas
Greenwich, NY (Albany/Saratoga area)
64 Monza convertible
66 Corsa Turbo convert

I will go out on a limb here as to extended warranties. Cars today are very well built and properly maintained will last a long time. However, they are mechanical devices and any problem that may come up after warranties expire can get very expensive, even for relatively small problems. Negotiate your price intelligently and an extended warranty turns out to be cheap insurance over the long haul. As for financing through the dealer, when any bank offers me anywhere from 0% to 2.9%APR on new and 2.9 % on certified, which can include a 100,000 mile warranty, I'll avoid the dealer like the plague. But never buy anything based on what your monthly payment is, buy it based on actual APR and total cost over the life of the loan. As for paying cash for a new car, if you can afford it , go ahead. But it is not exactly the best way to spend your hard earned money. And, dealers don't really care if you pay cash, they get paid very quickly when you finance. And they don't have to chase you down if you write them a bad check. My neighbor is a repo man and recovers cars all the time where the dealer took a check. If you're goin to pay cash, bring a cashiers check or cash. But at todays low rates, it's kind of silly to pay cash. I got my used truck financed through a local bank, by the dealer, for 3.99%.

"Profit add ons" are not evil, car dealers like any business need to make money. Think before you sign.

Rocco

In my experience, the internet has realy made it alot easier to buy a car. There are lots of sites out there than can help you prepare for a trip to the dealership. The last car I purchased was a used '08 Avalon I found online at a dealership in West Covina. I had a trade in, and I took it to a near by carmax and got them to give me a buy quote. I then took that to the dealer, and asked them to match the carmax price. They did, and I paid for the rest of the car with a bank draft from my local credit union. Overall, it was the most painless car buying experinece I have ever had.

I once walked out of a Honda dealership after being lied to twice, both by the sales man and the sales manager. We (my wife and I) went across the street and purchased a toyota. My wife still drives that minivan.
--C. Alan

Tehachapi, California
Currently living life without a Corvair
"There are two things the public should never see being made: Laws and Sausage."
Otto Von Bismark

hmmmmm......toyota is offering a $199 a month 36 month lease, $1999 due at signing, on 2011 camry LE models...what do you leasing experts think of this one?

I guess you're not worried about Toyota's electronics problems...

Would you designate me as the beneficiary of your 4 door?

Kevin
Medina, OH

flamingchariots Wrote:
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> I guess you're not worried about Toyota's
> electronics problems...
>
> Would you designate me as the beneficiary of your
> 4 door?


no more than i am worried about "flipping over" in my LM 4 door monza!

I never lease because my daily drivers get over 20k miles per year. 84 miles a day add up fast.
--C. Alan

Tehachapi, California
Currently living life without a Corvair
"There are two things the public should never see being made: Laws and Sausage."
Otto Von Bismark

C. Alan Wrote:
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> I never lease because my daily drivers get over
> 20k miles per year. 84 miles a day add up fast.
> --C. Alan

not an issue for me...my daily driver is over 5 years old and has 54K on it...

i could drive my other cars more also, if needed.

I saw a used Campbell Hausfield impact gun at a pawn shop for $60. The exact same gun brand new at Walmart was $29. What does that tell you? Don't trust anyone and never pay retail unless you have to.

danyarger Wrote:
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> I saw a used Campbell Hausfield impact gun at a
> pawn shop for $60. The exact same gun brand new at
> Walmart was $29. What does that tell you? Don't
> trust anyone and never pay retail unless you have
> to.

Should we trust you?

Rocco

2 years ago, when I bought my Prius.
Demand was high, and I was shopping around.
Actually found a 2 year old used one with 19,000 miles on a Toyota dealer lot.
They wanted 2 grand more for the used one than I could order a new one for!
I pointed that out to them, and the salesman replied:
"You can have this one today, if you order one you have to wait 6 weeks or longer". Do you want it?
I said I would order one, but not from him.............

But things like this are nothing new.
Back in 1978, when my grandfather ordered a new Corvette, he tried trading in his 73 T-bird, with real low miles. The offer they gave him was insulting.
On the spot he gave me the car. The salesman was mad. and got madder, and tried raising the price of the Corvette because he wasn't getting his trade in. But only upped the offer on the Bird by $100.
While this was going on, I pointed out they had a T-bird on the used car lot with a lot more miles than my grandfathers, and no where near as nice, for almost 3 times the price they offered him in trade.
Salesman got madder yet.

Basically said, the value of a car on his lot is a lot different than what the value of a car we own, and that's the way it is.

I tried getting my grandfather to walk out. I was ready to.
There were other dealers out there, we didn't need to be treated that way.

Turns out, the Corvette delivered was junk from day one.
Had to be re-painted completely under warranty, and before leaving the dealers lot, the driver's side power window fell off the track, and he had to make an appointment to get it fixed.

VairDeb writes:
For what you pay for a new car you can buy three Corvairs- One to use, one in reserve, and one to keep you happily occupied in the garage. What you would put out for monthly car payments can be put into Corvair parts to decorate the garaage until they're needed. What you save in insurance and registration fees you can use to take the wife to dinner in a classic car. Win, win, win situation.