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Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: xb9rumble ()
Date: November 11, 2010 08:28AM

I've been putting it off for a while but now it is about time to start a build thread. I purchased this 65' back in January of this year with the intention of a Crown conversion. I really hadn't looked into it too much and I soon realized that there was no way I could drive a Crown Corvair since I am on the better half of 6'4" tall, not to mention that Corvair transaxle just could not handle the power I was hoping for. I began searching the Internet for a solution that would keep the engine a little closer to the rear of the car. I looked into a TH425 but that is just a little heavy for my taste, only three speeds, and I really wanted to keep it as a manual. I looked into Mendola, Porsche 930, and Porsche G50 transaxle but they are way out of my price range. Then I found the Audi 5000 fwd transaxle that could support a conservative 450hp if it wasn't abused (from what I've read) and it could be built utilizing Porsche aftermarket parts if need be. Keeping in line with the Protouring theme, I purchased a whole C4 Corvette for the front and rear suspension, C6 Z06 front brake calipers and rotors, and C5 front brake calipers and rotors for the rear. The power train will consist of a 5.3 lsx motor with a simple LS6 cam and LS1 intake, gt76 turbo I picked up brand new from my brother for $500smileys with beer, and the Audi 5000 transaxle utilizing a kitcarchassis.com adaptor with custom flywheel, clutch and starter. Will have home made headers once it is forced induction but I will drive it around naturally aspirated with manifolds for a while.

Here are some pics so far.
When I brought it home.

The guy said that it didn't run when I bought it. Got it home, put some new gas in it, took a spare battery and it fire right up. Ran like complete garbage. We drove it around the block a few times and then.

I sold the engine a 4speed on craigslist to a guy who rebuilds them for experimental airplanes (good luck dude, I know I would never go in a plane with that engine).

I do plan on taking this to the track to run the quarter. I plan on running GTO aluminum spares with M&H tires as skinnies. My brother took the spare from his Goat and we slapped it on the front to see what it would look like. To get the suspension that low, there is a cooler full of water, a floor Jack and 3 cement blocks in the trunk. The carboard box has interior pieces, so no weight there.


Removed all other suspension parts and it's now a basic shell.

Bought this Corvette for $750 and so far have made $600 parting it out. Hoping to break even. Did I mention my neighbors hate me.




I'm only going to use some of the rear suspension since the transmission will be right there.


C6 Z06 front caliper. I will have to run 18's to fit around the calipers.

More pictures coming soon. Slow process but it will pick up soon. This is a join project between my twin brother and myself with me paying for it and him doing 60% of the work. He just bought the house across the street from me so it will make good progress soon!

65' Monza 6.0/TH425/C4 front suspension/solid 8.8 rear. Mid engine project.
91' Syclone 6.0/4l80E/pt88 still AWD
92' Typhoon 5.3/4L80E/tc76 still AWD

Livermore, CA

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: xb9rumble ()
Date: November 11, 2010 08:32AM

The only parts I need are the 5.3 and the transaxle. 5.3s are easy to get a hold of but this transaxle is a pain in the butt. I am on the verge of buy a whole car for the transmission alone. I need an Audi 5000 non quattro 5 speed manual and I have been to countless junkyards and they are either quattro or automatic. By the way, I'm shooting for 500 rwhp.

65' Monza 6.0/TH425/C4 front suspension/solid 8.8 rear. Mid engine project.
91' Syclone 6.0/4l80E/pt88 still AWD
92' Typhoon 5.3/4L80E/tc76 still AWD

Livermore, CA

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: danyarger ()
Date: November 11, 2010 08:37AM

What was wrong with the Vette where you could buy it for a mere $750?

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: xb9rumble ()
Date: November 11, 2010 08:40AM

danyarger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What was wrong with the Vette where you could buy
> it for a mere $750?


Last time it was registered was 2005 in Washington and the guy seemed desperate to get rid of it. Early year C4s go for cheap you just need to keep an eye out for them. It was a complete car just with the TPI taken apart by a guy who can unbolt something but can't piece the puzzle back together. It was just down the road in Dixon Ca. I rode the Motorcycle there and had AAA tow it back for free.

65' Monza 6.0/TH425/C4 front suspension/solid 8.8 rear. Mid engine project.
91' Syclone 6.0/4l80E/pt88 still AWD
92' Typhoon 5.3/4L80E/tc76 still AWD

Livermore, CA

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: lostbooger ()
Date: November 11, 2010 12:26PM

Wonder if those vette wheels will fit a vair... hmm...

Damian


61 Monza 4.3L V6


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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: November 11, 2010 01:05PM

Great project. I spent countless hours looking for the Audi 5000 transaxle you speak of when I was wanting more gear for my V8 car. Could not find one, and was almost ready to import a 6 speed from Germany (If going through all that trouble might as well get the 6 speed its almost the same money) At the time Ebay Germany seemed to have a few here and there, and for about $500 extra it could be shipped to the states. I finally lost interest in that part of the project, but I bet I still have a lot of files with spreadsheets of gear ratios, etc. It will work, the kit car guys use them up all the time. Scrap is high right now in my neck of the woods, you should be able to find an old Audi 5000 for cheap take the transaxle out and scrap it...Good luck feel free to email me. VairKing@hotmail.com

_________________________________________
Ryan Counterman (Moderator)
1965 Corsa Kelmark V8 400 HP ///1965 Monza Sedan 110/PG /// Ultimate Corvair Hauler/// Don Eichstaedt's 1965 Corsa Racecar
West Michigan Corvair Club /// New Build! 1966 Corsa GTP Convertible Mid Engine 3.8L Supercharged!

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: chanceparker ()
Date: November 11, 2010 03:28PM

Hey,

Sounds like an interesting project, but I'm not sure the Audi transaxle is going to save you that much room in the end. Here's a link to a kit car site that has a lot good information about various transaxle ideas.

[www.lambolounge.com]

Not sure how much HP it can support, but you should also consider mounting the engine transversely with a new Pontiac G6 manual transaxle. This would save you a ton of room... you might even be able to keep a token back seat. Here's a link to some information about using this transaxle in Fieros.

[www.v8archie.com]

Lastly, what about simply using a transverse 5.3 and 6-speed automatic set-up from a newer Monte Carlo, Impala, or Grand Prix. Here's a link with some information about that option as well.

[www.fieroaddiction.com]

Good luck no matter which way you go.

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: streblerm ()
Date: November 11, 2010 06:32PM

To the OP. I know you want a manual, but have you considered a TH325-4L? They would've come in the early-mid 80's toronado, eldorado, and rivieras. It would put the engine in the same position of the TH-425 and would give you overdrive and an aluminum case.

As I understand they share internals with the TH200-4R which are known for holding up fairly well in the Grand Nationals.

I have been contemplating converting my crown car to one of these.

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: xb9rumble ()
Date: November 12, 2010 03:17AM

I considered using the F40 from a G6 but I didnt really want a transverse setup. I have not completely ruled it out but it will be more of last resort. The Th325-4L is not strong enough and the 200-r4 parts are not as interchangeable as people think so that is out. The 4L65E??? from the Impala SS and other similar platforms is only a 4 speed and it is expensive to build up. I'm going to look into this 6 speed audio case from germany that Vairking wad talking about.

65' Monza 6.0/TH425/C4 front suspension/solid 8.8 rear. Mid engine project.
91' Syclone 6.0/4l80E/pt88 still AWD
92' Typhoon 5.3/4L80E/tc76 still AWD

Livermore, CA

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: Dave Decker ()
Date: November 12, 2010 05:02AM

There is a GT40 site with an excellent forum and lots of transaxle info. For Audis they seem to lean towards the OE1 6 speed transaxle. By all accounts it is stronger the the 016 5 speed used in the 5000s. Cheers, Dave. Kennedy engineeered products make an adapter for the Audi transaxle

Dave, Kamloops, B.C. '65 Crown V8, 63 Spyder

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: xb9rumble ()
Date: November 12, 2010 08:33AM

Unfortunately Kennedy Engineering does not make a flywheel that will work with an LSx only a gen 1 SBC. I emailed them a few months ago and got that as a reply. I do like that fact that the F40 6 speed from the G6 is only 124 lb. dry weight. Considering the TH425 is 400 lb. And the TH325-4L is 300 lb. Not to mention the torque converter and added fluid of a large transmission.

65' Monza 6.0/TH425/C4 front suspension/solid 8.8 rear. Mid engine project.
91' Syclone 6.0/4l80E/pt88 still AWD
92' Typhoon 5.3/4L80E/tc76 still AWD

Livermore, CA

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Date: November 12, 2010 06:58PM

The F40 can be bolted to the LS1 with an archie adapter - but is not rated for the TQ output of even a stock 5.3. Would make a nice show car - but not a great go car. I would stick with the Audi trans or something similar.

I know a few who will argue that point - but I had the good fortune to talk to the engineers directly when I worked at GM. Just because something will go together - doesn't mean it will work + the Ratio's are all wrong.

I just picked up a Non LSD 930 tranny for $2300 with shift shaft and CV's. the one in our car is LSD and a little over twice that.


J.Mccreery
LS1/930 - father son(s) project
Northstar Fiero
Blow through turbo
and more cars then I care to remember...
Z06's, 997's, 964's Oh my....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2010 06:59PM by Jonathan McCreery.

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: xb9rumble ()
Date: November 12, 2010 11:59PM

I've nearly gotten to the point that I might do the unholy thing of making this Corvair a front mid ship configuration with a t-56. I have the corvette complete rear end granted it is only a D36 not a D44. For the poster about retaining the back seat, I am using Typhoon front bucket seats and with my hieght and the plan to have a full cage, the back seat is definitely gone. It may just make everything easier and cheaper for sure. Mmmmm would I be kicked out of the Corvair community for such a heinous crime? I've seen at leat one front engine LS1 Corvair (white w/ orange stripes).

65' Monza 6.0/TH425/C4 front suspension/solid 8.8 rear. Mid engine project.
91' Syclone 6.0/4l80E/pt88 still AWD
92' Typhoon 5.3/4L80E/tc76 still AWD

Livermore, CA

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: carango ()
Date: November 13, 2010 02:55AM

the audi 5000 tranny is the same as a porsche 944, if you can find a 944 turbo tranny it has bigger ring and pinion.

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: xb9rumble ()
Date: November 13, 2010 02:23PM

For those talking about the OE1 6 speed Audi box, which cars did those come out of? Are the the same bolt pattern as the 016 from the 5000? Will the same clutch work?

65' Monza 6.0/TH425/C4 front suspension/solid 8.8 rear. Mid engine project.
91' Syclone 6.0/4l80E/pt88 still AWD
92' Typhoon 5.3/4L80E/tc76 still AWD

Livermore, CA

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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: Tom Z ()
Date: November 13, 2010 03:14PM

..Derek Bell (in the UK) was modifying the Renault UN-1 for SBC-power,his site isn't up anymore..strolling thru the 'favorite' yard a few yrs ago I stumbled on this 5sp,in an '88 Renault Encore 4dr 4cyl car,'smaller' T/A tho..someday...

Tom Z,,Rochester NY


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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: November 13, 2010 03:21PM


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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: November 13, 2010 03:23PM


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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: VairKing ()
Date: November 13, 2010 03:24PM


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Re: Project Protouring Corvair mid-engine V8 with legroom for a fullsized adult.
Posted by: Dave Decker ()
Date: November 13, 2010 07:10PM

Porsche 944 NOT the same. No provision for either a clutch or input shaft. Can be made to work with machine work and mods. Renault transaxle shown is I believe an NG series. I had one and was told to avoid like the plague as they are a very weak version of the UN1. Info at GT40.COM will answer alot of questions about the 0E1 as well as many other types of transaxles. I have a manual for that NG transaxle if you'd like. Not trying to be a smartass, but I've done a ton of reading on the subject and I can't stress enough how good and technical the GT40 site is. Cheers, Dave

Dave, Kamloops, B.C. '65 Crown V8, 63 Spyder

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