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Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: bertfam ()
Date: July 02, 2006 09:35PM

Hello all. My name is Ed Bertrand and I've just jumped into the relm of the Corvair by purchasing a very nice 1969 Monza Convertible! (Purchased from Lee Cummings of Escondido, and before that, originally owned (?) by Clarence "Ranger" Albertson.)

The car's in great shape overall, but I seem to be having an overheating problem??? I'm not really sure if it's overheating because, even though the Cylinder Head Temperature gauge shows 550 degrees (it has a Corsa dash), I put my IR temperature gun on the heads and am only reading 285 degrees. If I point the gun directly to the exhaust manifolds, then yes, I get 500 degrees. Lee, Jim Stansbury and I replaced the Thermister yesterday thinking it may have been defective, but driving it home afterwards, the gauge continued to creep up to 600 degrees on the 30 mile trip to Murrieta.

So is it or isn't it? My IR gun is new, but seems to be very accurate, whereas the Gauge could be faulty. We've eliminated the Thermister and the wiring, so it's either the Gauge or it really is getting that hot! But like I said, I really don't think it's getting that hot because if it were, I'm sure it would start pinging and running bad, and the car doesn't exhibit any of the typical overheating symptoms.

Lee's going to bring me another gauge on Tuesday to see if we have a defective one, but in the meantime, anyone have any ideas?

Thanks in advance
Ed




Ed Bertrand
1969 Corvair Monza Convertible
My Home Page

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: GJ1963 ()
Date: July 02, 2006 10:13PM

If it starts smoking or pinging then maybe there is a problem. The gauges can be very inaccurate. Thermisters in the 12+ (including NOS) I have tested are always pretty accurate, within 5% of each other. Try the different gauge. But unless it is running bad and seems hot it is probably ok.

Geoff Johnson

----El Jefe

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: steve goodman ()
Date: July 02, 2006 10:13PM

Hello Ed: I doubt that the engine is really running at 550 degrees, it should be so easy to detonate and with a distinct lack of power you would know you really had a problem. Unfortunately the Corsa gauges are fairly inaccurate. Witness the other thread here today about the tach that doesn't return to zero.

I really don't have advice on what you should look for, the only time I have ever seen 550 degrees was on a turbo engine with no belt and the warning buzzer was deafening too. (customers' car, not mine) Like I said, the engine should just barely run at that temp.

You could check the plugs for color, maybe try to look around the fan to see into the top of the cylinders and heads for debris etc, make sure the thermostat doors are opening (or remove the bottom shrouds for the summer) and check to top of oil cooler for cleanliness, all the normal maintainance things we all should be doing anyway.

QUESTIONS that I might ask is 'how long does it take to get to the high temp?' Do you have to drive for a few miles or does it register the high temps right out of the driveway? Do you notice a change in engine power from the first few minutes of driving until the time the temp is so high?

I will watch for you answers..........hopefully others will too.

Best, Steve

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: bertfam ()
Date: July 02, 2006 10:30PM

Thanks guys for the quick replies.

Steve, the temperature takes about 20 minutes to get that high, with around 20 miles of driving. (It's been very HOT the last several days here in Murrieta. In the 110 range!) And no, there's no noticable change in the performance of the engine when cold or "600" degrees. That's why I think it's probably the gauge. And I agree... If it really were getting that hot, it would drive with absolutely NO power and ping like crazy!

You talked aboout the "warning buzzer". Do I have one of those??? The only buzzer I can find is the one for the key when it's left in the switch. Is this the same buzzer? There is a Idiot light on the left that shows "gen/Fan", and a light on the right, but it doesn't seem to work. Or at least it doesn't light up when the ignition is on but the engine's not running. Not sure what that one is...

We'll see what happens when Lee brings the other gauge on Tuesday.

Ed


Ed Bertrand
1969 Corvair Monza Convertible
My Home Page

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: WalterElias ()
Date: July 02, 2006 11:03PM

As a side note, the previous owner may have been Clarence Halverson, known to some as "Ranger Hal". He lived in the San Diego area but has since passed away.
Back when I first got into Corvairs, I purchased an engine from him for my Greenbrier. He was a good fellow, wish he was still around.

Dan Kling
1961 Greenbrier Deluxe, 110 HP, 4spd, 3.89 stump puller
1963 Spyder Coupe, restored, converted to 4spd Saginaw
1967 UltraVan #299, The migration has begun, we're on the road again......Save the Whales!

Photos of our Greenbrier, UltraVan and work-in-progress @

[www.flickr.com]

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: bertfam ()
Date: July 02, 2006 11:22PM

That's it! I knew it was something like Halverson. I thought I heard Lee say "Albertson". My mistake. Thanks Dan.

Lee and Jim said it took several weekends to gather all of "Ranger Hal's" parts together after he passed away. Apparently he had a lot of cars that he had stripped for parts. That's how Lee came to own the car. He and Jim have told me a few stories. He does sound like he was an interesting guy!

Ed


Ed Bertrand
1969 Corvair Monza Convertible
My Home Page

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: steve goodman ()
Date: July 03, 2006 02:27AM

Hello Ed: My reference to the 'warning buzzer' was that in the Spyder and Corsa cars, there was a buzzer that added to the overheat warning. It would not be in the 69 even with the Corsa dash unless someone installed it on purpose.

From your description it sounds like gauges and not engine problems. Good luck with the car, 69 converts are pretty nice.

Is it a 140/4 speed and if so what color in and out? Just curious of course.

Best, Steve

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: bertfam ()
Date: July 03, 2006 03:12AM

Steve,

Okay, thanks. It's a 110 4 speed, blue on blue. You can see a few pictures on my home page at [home.pcmagic.net]

I'm still working on the page, so there's not much on it yet.

Ed


Ed Bertrand
1969 Corvair Monza Convertible
My Home Page

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: bertfam ()
Date: July 04, 2006 04:08PM

On a related note... I've been reading past threads on the cooling of these engines and a lot of you recommend removing the lower shrouds for the summer. Since I live in a hot area of the country, I guess I should go ahead and do this, but my question is should I also remove the Exhaust Ducts, Dampers and Thermostats?

Ed


Ed Bertrand
1969 Corvair Monza Convertible
My Home Page

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: freeulster ()
Date: July 05, 2006 05:52AM

bertfam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> On a related note... I've been reading past
> threads on the cooling of these engines and a lot
> of you recommend removing the lower shrouds for
> the summer. Since I live in a hot area of the
> country, I guess I should go ahead and do this,
> but my question is should I also remove the
> Exhaust Ducts, Dampers and Thermostats?
>
> Ed
>
>
> Ed Bertrand
> 1969 Corvair Monza Convertible
> My Home Page


The Thermostats come off with the lower shroud.

Kent Donnelly
Living in sunny Brigantine Beach NJ
64 Vert
Philadelphia Corvair Assoc and CORSA
"EM's are faster than LM's because we don't have all those extra lug nuts weighting us down"

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: bertfam ()
Date: July 05, 2006 03:32PM

Thanks Kent.

To further update everyone on my "overheating" problem, it was the gauge after all. Lee came over yesterday afternoon and we spent a few hours checking the oil pressure, changing out the gauge (which took the most time) and replacing a fan belt that broke just as he drove up! I still have a slight wiring problem because the gauge fluctuates from 0-600 periodically (probably an intermittant connection in the wiring), but other than that the new gauge didn't get above 350 yesterday. This put us both at ease!!

I hate to toss the old gauge if it can be fixed. Anyone know if these things can be recalibrated?

Ed


Ed Bertrand
1969 Corvair Monza Convertible
My Home Page

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: WalterElias ()
Date: July 05, 2006 03:54PM

Hi Ed,

I'd leave the lower shrouds on if I were you. You have a 110hp engine. I have the same engine in my Greenbrier but being a shoebox on wheels and being heavier, my engine should run hotter than yours. I run the lower shrouds year round and I live in the California Bay Area. It is not uncommon even hear to see temps approaching 100 degrees inland which is where I live. I also take trips where the ambient temperature exceeds 100 degrees and am usually hauling a load. I used to live in San Diego's east county where temps over 100 degrees are common during the summer months too. My Greenbrier rarely gets up to 400 degrees. I have both a thermister gauge and aftermarket thermocouple gauge. For the summer months, I made a couple of block-off "summer/winter" plates for the lower shroud heat return holes similar to the ones on the Spyders and Corsas. Around May is when I usually cover them up and then around October I remove them to aid warm-up in the winter.

If everything is setup right you shouldn't have an overheating problem.

Dan Kling
1961 Greenbrier Deluxe, 110 HP, 4spd, 3.89 stump puller
1963 Spyder Coupe, restored, converted to 4spd Saginaw
1967 UltraVan #299, The migration has begun, we're on the road again......Save the Whales!

Photos of our Greenbrier, UltraVan and work-in-progress @

[www.flickr.com]

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: Eric ()
Date: July 06, 2006 06:51PM

Ed,
you lucky dog, I was the guy coming up on Sunday to buy that Corvair. Grrr....

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: bertfam ()
Date: July 06, 2006 07:02PM

Dan,

Yes, I've decided to leave everything as is for now. The car isn't actually overheating (bad gauge), so there's no need to pull any shrouds.

Eric,

Sorry about that. I know how you feel though. There have been a few times in my life where I just missed out on some good deals. I.E. There was a 69 Corvette Roadster (350/350 4 speed) in the paper a few years ago for $2000.00! Original owner just wanting to get rid of it. It was in "good" condition and all original. The "new owner" was driving it out of his driveway as I was calling!! These kind of deals don't come around often and most of the time you have to be lucky.

Ed


Ed Bertrand
1969 Corvair Monza Convertible
My Home Page

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Re: Testing Thermister GAUGES!
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: July 06, 2006 07:48PM

It was just pointed out that the gauge can be tested with a #1445 bulb in place of the thermister...Gauge should read just a needle width higher than 500 deg.


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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: bertfam ()
Date: July 06, 2006 09:05PM

Matt,

Can you elaborate on that a bit? I'm not sure how you could test a gauge with a light bulb. Do you hook up the two gauge sending wires to the + and - of the bulb? If so, where does the power come from? Or do you power it at all??? I'm confused...

Ed


Ed Bertrand
1969 Corvair Monza Convertible
My Home Page

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: Eric ()
Date: July 06, 2006 09:08PM

Ed,
No hard feelings, you just beat me to the punch! I hope you like it, I'm still hunting one down right now, that one in Escondido was just so close! I'll get one eventually but it would have been nice to have had a '69!
Eric

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: Anonymous User ()
Date: July 06, 2006 09:15PM

bertfam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Can you elaborate on that a bit? I'm not sure how
> you could test a gauge with a light bulb.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

What is a light bulb? a resistor!!

Just connect the wire that plugs to the Thermister to the bulbs center post and ground it...

if the gauge doesn't read 500...then go up under the dash and clip onto the post that the T-M wire is on and eliminate the wiring from the test....gauge should read this time!

Remember...A thermister varies resistance vs temp.......unfortunately REVERSE of 99% of other temp probes.....why they are rare and expensive.

Repair of a gauge... see Lew Rischel! lewrish@tns.net

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Re: Newbie with an overheating problem???
Posted by: bertfam ()
Date: July 06, 2006 11:38PM

Thanks Matt. I'll give that a shot.

Eric, one thing I've always noticed is that you always find one when you're not looking!

Ed


Ed Bertrand
1969 Corvair Monza Convertible
My Home Page

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Well... I guess I spoke too soon.
Posted by: bertfam ()
Date: July 07, 2006 11:03PM

I took the car out for a long drive this afternoon and again, the temperature crept up to over 600 degrees. When I got the car home I took readings with my new Harbor Freight IR THERMOMETER, and (with the car still running and the gauge showing 600 degrees), the hottest I could find on the heads was 338. Only the exhaust manifolds read 624.

So I'm at a loss, but I KNOW this car's not running that hot! If it were, I would have a meltdown on my hands and it runs GREAT. No pinging, no loss of power, no problems at all. So for now, I guess I'll just ignore the gauge and have fun driving it.

I'll dig into this later when it's not so hot outside!! And Matt, I'll give your light bulb test a shot when the car cools down. Does it have to be a 1445 bulb? If so, I'll have to go out and get one...

Ed


Ed Bertrand
1969 Corvair Monza Convertible
My Home Page

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