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Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: flamingchariots ()
Date: April 03, 2010 12:39PM

This is a '65 110 PG. The summer/winter plate is missing.

Can this cause overheating? After a two mile run, it was way hotter than a Corvair engine should be, but no red lights.

Background: After sitting all winter, the starter just went "click", so I figured it was solenoid. When I moved the wires at the starter, it made enough contact to start. So I replaced the tire and moved the car to a dryer spot to work on. Again no start. Touched the wires again, and the yellow one came off.

Well my lift has been tied up for weeks with my experimenting with engine replacement on my '99 Escort. Always thought my first engine removal would be Corvair, but I guess not... and I am totally unfamiliar with CV joints, but that's next.

So I remove the tire and reach through to repair that yellow wire. I hook it up by stretching. I also found that the main starter feed wire is loose, so I tighten it up. Replace the tire... go to start and now it just cranks and wants to catch, but won't.

I look inside the carbs and find the right one doesn't have the two squirts inside the bowl, just a pitiful weak squirt (some of us know what that's like). I end up swapping carbs with one I had rebuilt last fall and never tried. Looked good newly installed and DID work just fine. The only problem was that the engine still won't start and stay running.

I did some research from Bob Helt's carb book and then the chassis shop manual. Finally it dawned on me that there are two circuits: start (S) and run (R). I go back through the tire well again with a better flashlight and find that I hooked the yellow wire to the solenoid support screw instead of the R terminal. Duh. No wonder it didn't start!

Fixed it and it started right up, idling too fast, but that's OK for now. That's when I took it out for a 2 mile 55mph run and came back smelling oil or rubber burning. The next day I checked while cool, and everything seems proper as far as belt tension, and idler pulley and alternator turning freely. The cooling fan bearing may be starting to chirp occasionally, but still turns freely. That's when I noticed the rush of hot air coming from where the summer/winter plate should be.

So, can a missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?


Kevin
Medina, OH

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 03, 2010 12:44PM

Yes, it can cause overheating IF IF IF


How warm was it yesterday? over 70F and YES!


Just take an aluminum can and cut and flatten... hold down with the original hole and make sure the other end tucks under... you'll be fine until you can find the correct piece at the next meet!

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: Spyderman64 ()
Date: April 03, 2010 02:33PM

If the car is on the verge of overheating due to other reasons, the extra heat from the winter/summer slots may be enough to push it over the edge. If the car is otherwise in good shape the missing covers may cause it to be warmer than usual, but unless it's a 100+ degree day I doubt it would be the sole cause of overheating. Check the usual suspects: missing or damaged engine/body seal, over-advanced timing, mouse nests on fins,lean mixture,internally-collapsed muffler, blocked oil cooler, etc. If the car is truly overheating I'd say one (or more) of these factors is more likely the cause.

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: 1961chandler ()
Date: April 03, 2010 03:49PM

My car was missing those plates when I bought it ,and when the temp got in the 100's. The engine sounded like death. Leaving a stop light a diesel knock was the way it ran. Glad I asked that question here and solved it in a day. Cut metal to cover and never an issue again. And 110 or more is the summer here. Its cold at 80 today

M.R. Diaz
1961 Monza 900
Chandler Arizona

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: LeeS ()
Date: April 03, 2010 04:12PM

If the car has been sitting over the winter and is now overheating I would pull the turkey baster and look for nests.

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: flamingchariots ()
Date: April 03, 2010 04:54PM

Thanks for the replies.
Matt and M.R.: I will be making a temporary plate and install it next week.

Sam: The body seals and oil cooler seem to look OK. I will be checking on the other possibilities you mentioned.

Lee: I wouldn't be surprised if the mice have been at work. I guess the turkey baster will be removed next week!

Thanks again for your ideas.

Kevin
Medina, OH

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 03, 2010 08:07PM

Kerwin, pull the cover off the oil cooler... you see how much debris there is there.... it's representative of the rest..

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: rnch ()
Date: April 04, 2010 06:33AM

MattNall Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kerwin, pull the cover off the oil cooler... you
> see how much debris there is there.... it's
> representative of the rest..

the Folded Fin oil coolers seem to collect a LOT of debris and stop up easily, which would aggrivate any boderline overheating issues.

i can recall my father, way back in the dim late '60's, spraying most/all of a can of carb cleaner thru the folded fin oil cooler on his LM monza coupe, allowing it to air dry overnight, as part of his routine maintiance program.

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: rnch ()
Date: April 04, 2010 07:07AM

oops...posted the above before my morning coffee kicked in....didn't realize it was a LM. DOH! drinking smiley

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: Horndoc ()
Date: April 04, 2010 07:42AM

Kevin, If this is your (my former) 65 sedan, The car sat in a dairy barn for 4yrs before I got it. I never removed the "turkey roaster" to clean it out. You may want to do that smiling smiley

Paul Abel
Rochester, NY

66 Monza 110 4sp.
67 Monza convertible 95 4sp.
2010 Chevy HHR

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: Brad54 ()
Date: April 05, 2010 08:17PM

Okay... I'm risking looking like a TOTAL doof here, but I'll do it anyway:
In the summer, is that cover supposed to be in place, blocking the hole below it, or removed?


I was sitting in traffic on the highway and around the ball field today, for a couple hours... it was the first really hot day we've had, and getting stuck in traffic for that long wasn't real fun. It did rattle a bit from detonation a few times when I'd get rolling.

-Brad

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 05, 2010 08:54PM

Brad.. you are dangerous!! ggg

An Air cooled engine depend on outside air passing thru the engine ONE time...

As you move down the road it's less important to be sealed tight..

But when setting still...going slow, going up grades...then everything needs to be Air tight!

Owners manual says to open / remove when outside temps STAY below 50f?? to help engine warmup faster/ better heater operation and to eliminate the chance of the carbs icing.
========================================

Your wagon has early Shrouding.... the Vent /vents are just metal tabs that can be bent....so many times only..

If yours are broken off... make plates to cover the hole/s

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: Brad54 ()
Date: April 05, 2010 08:56PM

So I should probably fab a cover to fill the hole in the back of the engine bay as well, huh?

-Brad

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 05, 2010 09:03PM

Absolutely!

You do NOT want to see any holes anywhere! Why the rubber plugs and bellows on linkages, etc..

Can you take a picture f your engine from directly above?

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: 4MiloEli ()
Date: April 25, 2010 04:45PM

I love this site ... I search a topic and learn tons of useful info on taking care of my car.

Please take a look at the attached pic. The winter/summer plate is properly installed. My question is the plate covering the oil cooler ... is this properly installed as well for warm weather? Does it also come off in temps consistently under 50F, or should it stay on?

Thanks!

Jay Pitchford
65 Corsa convertible
Columbus OH


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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: flamingchariots ()
Date: April 26, 2010 12:02PM

I've been hoping someone would comment on Jay's (4MiloEli) question, concerning the oil cooler cover plate.

I've looked at 7 of my LM Corvairs, and only one (a '65 PG sedan from AZ) has this plate. The other 65's, 66's, and 67's don't. Why?

Kevin
Medina, OH

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: April 26, 2010 12:14PM

Jay, NO..you always leave the oil cooler access plate on! Unless in Antartica!! gg


Kevin, people take them off and lose them!

You normall bolt them using thes ame bolt... only rotated to lay up near the head...

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: Spectre ()
Date: April 26, 2010 12:18PM

If you're refering to the plate on the side of the oil cooler, it was installed on Ac equipped cars. You leave it on at all times - helps force more air through the oil cooler and keeps head temps down.

David Clamp


1965 Corsa convertible - 140 4spd/3.55/AM-FM

2013 Mustang GT convertible - 5.0, 6spd auto, Procharger i-1

2003 Miata SE - 6spd manual (wife's toy)

"Victory is mine!" - SG

Norman, OK

<a href="[www.wunderground.com] src="[weathersticker.wunderground.com]; alt="Click for Norman, Oklahoma Forecast" height="90" width="160"></a>

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: Gregory_Miller ()
Date: April 26, 2010 12:19PM

You are also missing an extra chunk of metal where the winter/summer plate goes...that metal gap that disappears under the oil cooler ain't supposed to be there. And, always leave the oil cooler plate on, that's what forces the air through the cooler. Only remove it to clean the oil cooler passages out and immediately replace!!!

Greg Miller
Eugene, Oregon

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Re: Can missing summer/winter plate cause overheating?
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: April 26, 2010 12:21PM

The oil cooler side plate in 4Miloeli's picture was originally installed on LM cars with factory AC. They lower engine temperature by reducing the flow of recirculated air. Many owners have installed these on non-AC cars.

In summary...
Oil cooler top covers: stay in place in all conditions, winter and summer.
Oil cooler side plates: stay in place in all conditions, winter and summer.
Recirculation plates: Cover over hole Spring-summer-fall. Cover flipped over and off to the left in colder climates to promote warm-up and reduce carburetor icing.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
60 Monza coupe (sold, sniff sniff)
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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