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New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: anthonyforensics ()
Date: February 10, 2010 03:59PM

After considering multiple engines from mid-engine to a 4.3L Vortec I have decided to go with a Subaru EJ20 Twin Turbo with a Porsche 915 trans. I am ordering the engine Friday. A buddy of mine in Indianapolis will be doing most of the work on the Subaru. The VW guys have been doing this setup for years. We are going to do a write up and document the whole process. Has anyone seen a Subaru setup in a Vair before? Should be able to pump out 240-300Hp.

1964 Spyder, 1967 Monza
Cincinnati, Ohio
Monza Motion
Monza Auto Parts

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: 4carbcorvair ()
Date: February 10, 2010 04:00PM

That is the EXACT set-up I wanted to do about a year ago. Seems very doable. Stock twin turbo Suby engines are in the 270 or 280hp range.

I have a little bit of info saved......

--------------------------------
Ronnie
Southern Maine.
www.dirigocorvairs.net
66 Corsa Convertible, 140, 4sp.
65 Monza Convertible, 110, PG.




It doesn't leak, it's marking it's territory.

A mirror is a reflection of the miles travelled.

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 10, 2010 04:01PM

There's a few out there... We've seen pics.. but haven't heard of one showing up at a meet...

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Date: February 10, 2010 04:09PM

The biggest problem will be devising a way to use the porsche tranny with the corvair IRS> The P-trans has no provisions for suspension pickup points

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: anthonyforensics ()
Date: February 10, 2010 04:11PM

4carbcorvair... if you are willing to send me the information that would be great. My buddy is an import expert and has done a lot of swaps, but none with a Corvair. We found a place that will sell us a EJ20 twin turbo on the cheap.

1964 Spyder, 1967 Monza
Cincinnati, Ohio
Monza Motion
Monza Auto Parts

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: anthonyforensics ()
Date: February 10, 2010 04:28PM

Does anyone know the measurement of the engine bay width and the distance from the bottom of the oil pan to the bottom of the engine lid? I might just go out and measure it, but I have the car on jacks, might not get a true measurement.

1964 Spyder, 1967 Monza
Cincinnati, Ohio
Monza Motion
Monza Auto Parts

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: brocklanders ()
Date: February 10, 2010 04:29PM

[forums.vwvortex.com]

Bug which was for sale up here in Toronto area...I loved the idea and he has lots of info on what he did to make it fit. I know it's a VW, but I thought it's a starting point!




1968 Corvair 500 coupe 140 4 spd
Bowmanville, Ontario, Canada


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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: anthonyforensics ()
Date: February 10, 2010 04:32PM

Oh yea, nice picture of the lady winking smiley

1964 Spyder, 1967 Monza
Cincinnati, Ohio
Monza Motion
Monza Auto Parts

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: anthonyforensics ()
Date: February 10, 2010 04:42PM

Or even the measurements of the Vair engine so we can compare the Subi engine.

1964 Spyder, 1967 Monza
Cincinnati, Ohio
Monza Motion
Monza Auto Parts

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: lgoodwin ()
Date: February 10, 2010 04:54PM

Great minds really DO think alike! ;-}

A few years ago, a friend of mine wanted to put that same motor in his Vanagon, but a new motor was around $10k. I've been thinking a LOT lately about what a used low-mileage "crate" motor would cost, probably just the standard Legacy motor, no turbo, maybe even an older motor that's still in good shape.

Have you thought about keeping the stock Corvair trans? Seems like that motor with a 4-speed (or dare I say PG?) would still be killer and cost WAAAAYY less.

Please post prices along with details and photos as you proceed!

<table align='center' width='0'>
<tr>
<td><img src='[www.automation-scs.com]; alt='1962 Corvair 900 sedan' width='190' /></td>
<td><img src='[corvaircenter.com]; alt='1967 Corvair Monza 140/4-speed' width='190' /></td>
<td><img src='[corvaircenter.com]; alt='1968 Corvair 500 coupe' width='190' /></td>
<td><img src='[www.automation-scs.com]; alt='1983 Mexican Mustang 5.0' width='190' /></td>
<td><a href='[www.automation-scs.com&]; target='_blank'></a></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td align='center'><font size='1'>1962 900 sedan needs a home</font></td>
<td align='center'><font size='1'>1967 Monza 140/4-spd</font></td>
<td align='center'><font size='1'>1968 500 coupe (now my son's)</font></td>
<td align='center'><font size='1'>1983 Mexican Mustang 5.0</font></td>
</tr>
</table>

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: February 10, 2010 05:02PM

My plan for 200 MPH from the beginning was engineer a 915 into the racecar.

"I'm running 3:55 gears and when it's all working I'm hitting 7K+ RPM at the trap. There are still 3:27 & 3:08 gears to go so that's not an issue. I do have an idea for an OD gear. The 70's style Porsche 911 transaxle (called the 915 gearbox) has the same bellhousing as VW. The standard VW to Corvair adaptor works and wouldn't take a lot to engineer that drivetrain into the car. The t-xle is good for at least 350 HP and I don't bang the clutch so its plenty strong. But until I hit oh say 175 MPH it wont be needed. That is my plan for the first ever 200 MPH Corvair. There is only 3 of us that believe in 200...are you in? I've got all the parts for a 500HP 183 cube tri-port T-4 turbo alcohol motor...but I've got unfinished business with my stock configuration set-up for now."


Just hang the 915 in the car and build axles out to the vair suspension.

Porsche CV joint inboard and Corvair u-joint outboard.

If you build two extra lateral links it becomes a parallelogram IRS.

Then the new axles could be slip splined and you could really make it handle.

But I digress...solid axle IRS will work fine. cool smiley


Paso Robles CA-Sidewinders (SCTA Charter Member 1934)-CORSA Member-Central Coast Corsa-Ventura County Corvair-Corvanatics-California Angels Fan Since 1978...World Series Champions 2002 & 9 AL West Division Titles-So Cal Gas Since 1974 (Now Retired Again) Rehired as Contractor Seasonally-RACECAR 148.253 MPH Unsafe at Any Landspeed F/BGALT Late Model Coupe-ZONKER 1965 Monza Weber Turbo 95/PG Coupe-GEM 1966 500 140/PG Sport Sedan Factory A/C 36K Original Miles-SANDRAIL B&M Blown Methanol 3.1L Mid Engine Funco-DUCK 1965 110/PG Monza Coupe Parts Car-CRUSTY 1966 110/PG Factory A/C Coupe Parts Car-2013 Ford F250 Super Duty XLT Four Door Crew Cab Short Bed 6.7 Powerstroke-Grand Design Momuntum 350M Luxury Toy Hauler-When I Grow Up I'm Selling Everything and Buying a Vintage Triple Weber 911S Because I'll Never be Able to Afford the Miura!!!

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: anthonyforensics ()
Date: February 10, 2010 05:04PM

Well the issue is can a 4-speed PG handle the power? The engine will come stock with atleast 240Hp and that Subi engine can get over 400Hp... So we are forced to go with a dif transmission. Trust me, I would love a different transmission... a 915 tranny runs $1,500... We found a few Subi engines for $1,000 that includes the Turbos... actually, we called a few places and there is a place that will have a shipment in on Friday... the guy on the phone promised me a dirt cheap price... once I get the engine ordered and we start the project I will post as we go along with pictures and list product vendors... As for the "corvair IRS> The P-trans has no provisions for suspension pickup points" Scott in Indiana already has spoke with a few people and has all that worked out already... This project will be heavily documented/photographed to help anyone in the future.

1964 Spyder, 1967 Monza
Cincinnati, Ohio
Monza Motion
Monza Auto Parts

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: anthonyforensics ()
Date: February 10, 2010 05:19PM

Hey Phil, do you have a website with information on your car like stats/specs? I am very interested.

1964 Spyder, 1967 Monza
Cincinnati, Ohio
Monza Motion
Monza Auto Parts

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 10, 2010 05:32PM

Anthony!! We went over this in your last thread!! The Subie turns the wrong way!


Use the VW / Porsche unit.... not that much work.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
..............................110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Date: February 10, 2010 05:39PM

All of the problems you have brought light to aren't the issue. Take it from the one person on this forum who has a 911 transmission in a corvair.

The issue is the mounting points.

The Subaru motor will fit fine, you will need a mount that goes from the engine to the corvairs firewall. Look at any subaru , they all have it.

The CVs can be Porsche inner and outer with 18" empi drag pack axles . You will need flat plate axle adapters made with the proper pattern , they shouldn't cost more then $100 for a set out of 3/8ths

The Porsche transmission has no provisions for suspension. No lower arm provision , no upper arm provision.

A 915 tranny is going to turn into a pile of parts if you run 400hp through it.
The synchros can't stand up to abuse with a 3.0L 190hp motor (check the pca forums) let alone 400hp


you guys make me LOL sometimes.. It's seemingly so easy to build a car when sitting behind a computer. That's not meant to be negative , but you need to keep in mind this isn't a common or easy conversion and if you haven't done it you don't really realize the scope of the project or the hurdles you will encounter.


before I get the usual flack from this place that I o so enjoy. Before working at GM I did spend 5 years at Subaru Corporate.

I will say it again.. the suspension is the problem.. not the motor or axles



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2010 05:44PM by Jonathan McCreery.

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: Phil Dally ()
Date: February 10, 2010 06:01PM

Making brackets to hang the 915 box in a Corvairs while not easy are in fact vairy doable.

It separates into three pieces much like a Corvair separating into two pieces.

Giving you a total of (including the bellhousing) three circular paterns to build hanger brackets for.

The brackets would likely have fingers reaching into the studs holding the sections together.

Those studs might have to be changed to longer studs to get the bracket and nuts/locks on them.

The Corvair integrated box frame could then be used to weld hanging points for struts down to the new brackets.

Lateral link brackets to the outboard suspension would be designed in the same fashion.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/10/2010 06:05PM by Phil Dally.

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: anthonyforensics ()
Date: February 10, 2010 06:31PM

"Anthony!! We went over this in your last thread!! The Subie turns the wrong way!
Use the VW / Porsche unit.... not that much work."

Matt... I know you went over this in the last thread which is why I stated that I am using the P 915 Transmission. Someone posted that I should use a PG and I stated that I will be putting too much power for a PG. If you read at the top of the page you will see the setup I am using.

1964 Spyder, 1967 Monza
Cincinnati, Ohio
Monza Motion
Monza Auto Parts

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: anthonyforensics ()
Date: February 10, 2010 06:37PM

"you guys make me LOL sometimes.. It's seemingly so easy to build a car when sitting behind a computer." I have hired an expert who does swaps like this all day long. He put a Subaru engine w/ a 915 tranny in a VW at his shop. He definitely has the know how. He been doing swaps for years. I will pretty much just be a wrench monkey. I have a degree in Computer Forensics and Network Security and can rebuild data all day long. I could never do this swap on my own, so I would never attempt such a project without pulling in an expert. This guy works on boxer motors all day long.

1964 Spyder, 1967 Monza
Cincinnati, Ohio
Monza Motion
Monza Auto Parts

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: Vanman ()
Date: February 10, 2010 06:49PM

Dont know if its doable price wise, but you could get a VW trans built to take that engine, and if you must have 5 gears get a Berg 5 speed kit to put on the trans.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Kevin
Plainfield, IL
'63 2dr Biscayne
'63 VW Custom bug project
Former Corvan owner

Just hangin round to shoot the schtik

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Re: New boxer motor in a 'Vair
Posted by: ManxManiac ()
Date: February 10, 2010 06:52PM

The actual PG handling the HP isn't really the problem, because drag race & circle track PGs handle a lot more than 400hp & the shock loading is thru the roof. The Corvair different can't handle all the torque & horsepower.
As Matt said, the Subaru rotates the wrong direction to be mated to the Corvair's PG transaxle.
A stock 915 transaxle with a couple thousand dollars in mods will handle more torque & hp, but it won't take long to blow it up, with a high hp/torque engine.
Instead of the turbo'd 4 cylinder Subaru, maybe go with a 6 cylinder Subaru that is just fuel injected! Real decent hp & torque & it's 6 cylinder. Mike Mendeola that is building the Meyers Manxter, uses them quite a bit & they run great & are very reliable.
Mated to a Porsche 915 transaxle, both should last quite awhile even with a little abuse ever now & then.
As others have posted... there are not any suspension mounting points on the 915, but with a little engineering imagination, that problem could be solved fairly easy.
A LM with the Subaru 6 & a 915 would be a real kick to drive!!!

Have Fun, Fun, Fun... ManxManiac

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