Corvair DiagramCorvair Photo
Corvair Center
home forum corvairs calendar links Corvair Podcast
California Corvairs
Clarks Corvair



Chevy Corvair License Plate
Chevy Corvair Chrome Wheel
Corvair Center Forum :  Corvair Center Phorum The fastest message board... ever.
Corvair Center 
Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2
shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: dfasgold ()
Date: July 20, 2009 12:42AM

I gave one of my project cars to my 16-year-old nephew, and I'm helping him get it going. He's very excited about it, since he's been wanting a Corvair for awhile now (though he wanted a 65 or later at first). Once he realized the superiority of the earlies, he took my offer to give him the 63 convertible that I was saving to build a rat rod.

Anyway, he is on a super shoestring budget, and he mentioned just spraying black primer all over the car. I explained to him that it would rust without a topcoat, and he said "why not just clearcoat the primer?" After I finished laughing, I thought, "yeah...why not?" A lot of cars are painted with a single-stage color paint over primer...so what's wrong with just shooting black primer and using the clear instead of a color?

I suggested that he should just paint the car in "hot rod black" from Eastwood, but I'm curious about his suggestion. Is there a reason that it couldn't be done, other than it's not the "right" way?


Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: patpaldino ()
Date: July 20, 2009 12:45AM

If you shoot clear over the primer it will give a gloss black look not flat black if that is what he is going for...

I would probably be looking for a single stage flat black myself...PPG Omni or the like...

'65 vert ~ Worcester, MA

SOLD!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: AREA 51 ()
Date: July 20, 2009 12:46AM

single stage is clear with tint/pigment added in most cases.

mims, fl.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2009 12:47AM by AREA 51.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: sweet66monza ()
Date: July 20, 2009 12:46AM

spray it in epoxy primer.

Cody Hurley
North Idaho (Post Falls)
Mine-66 monza vert 140/PG, loaded with factory options
66 Corsa factory turbo coupe fully documented [corvaircenter.com]
66 Corsa 140 coupe 95% rust free car, build or sell
Corvair sand rail bought for motor. FOR SALE without motor
My dads's vairs-
66 Corsa crown V8 350/4spd coupe-100% home built by father and son
66 monza vert-weber'd 140 race motor/95hp driver motor/4 spd- YENKO clone project in the works
65 monza vert toronado 455 FOR SALE

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: Andrew ()
Date: July 20, 2009 12:58AM

Epoxy primer is not UV resistant. Eventually is will become chalky and spotty. It holds onto grease really well too so every fingerprint shows up. If you're on the supercheap budget use John Deer Blitz Black implement paint. Tough as nails and only about $28 a quart.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: AREA 51 ()
Date: July 20, 2009 12:59AM

Look at it this way, how much protection do you think you will get with primer and base coat only?

The protection IS the clear.

mims, fl.




Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: patpaldino ()
Date: July 20, 2009 01:00AM

Primers would be ok...but they don't have UV protection so they will fade over time...epoxy primer would be the best primer to use though. Lots of companies are doing the flat black now...SEM has a SS version there is also a line out there called hot rod flatz.

It really depends on how long he wants the paint job to last. If you run primer and it gets wet repeatedly, than technically that should be removed and then reprimed before painting...so if he has something to put down that will protect the car from the elements now...it will be much easier when/if 5-10 years down the road he wants to paint it...

'65 vert ~ Worcester, MA

SOLD!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: Thekingoflit ()
Date: July 20, 2009 01:27AM

Haha ok through extensive r&d I happened upon a flexed'n flat a ppg clear it's a flat "clear" sprays like a normal clear till it dries then the magic happen it dries flat....Any color just shoot the clear over and boom satin..if I remember the price is pertty close to there clear and the mix of hardner might be a lil diffrent...i've done my engine bay can't wait to do the whole car...

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: patpaldino ()
Date: July 20, 2009 01:30AM

I have the flex and flat but it is pricey! I think a qt of it + pint of activator was about $80-90 and you need reducer to at about $45 / gal. Very good clear though and you can add gloss clear to it to create different finishes like 'satins' too.

'65 vert ~ Worcester, MA

SOLD!

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: Thekingoflit ()
Date: July 20, 2009 01:42AM

Ya I just asked the better half she said it was pricy I guess I just try really hard to put the $# to the back of my mind Dont we all LMAO

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: Geardo ()
Date: July 20, 2009 02:14AM

Eastwood has what you need

[www.eastwood.com]

64 Cessna 150
65 Corsa Vert 140hp 4sp
87 Corvette Z-52 coupe auto
92 SAAB 900S vert 5sp
01 SAAB 9-3 SE turbo vert auto

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: Thekingoflit ()
Date: July 20, 2009 02:22AM

That's good but that limits him to black...have him make sure he wants black...I was SOLD on black but then I thought about it for a lil bit nosomuch now...tell him paint isn't perminate but the Money you spend sure is

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: tkalp ()
Date: July 20, 2009 02:26AM

Go with the JD Blitz black . . . it is designed to be a finish coat,it is inexpensive. A buddy of mine put some on his '37 Ford Convertible 8 years ago and it still looks great. Search on the internet there is a lot of information on the paint. Plans are to put it on my bondo '65 Monza convert.

tkalp
wichita, ks

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: Geardo ()
Date: July 20, 2009 02:59AM

www.eastwood.com has more than just black in a flat, and it's inexpensive, Summit racing also has their brand of paint in a satin.

64 Cessna 150
65 Corsa Vert 140hp 4sp
87 Corvette Z-52 coupe auto
92 SAAB 900S vert 5sp
01 SAAB 9-3 SE turbo vert auto

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: Catch65 ()
Date: July 20, 2009 04:09AM

Just put a car cover on the car on those very sunny days and the primer or semi-gloss you go with, if you use a single stage, and it would last a bit longer.
Or you can spray the clear on and wet sand it with 800-1000 grind paper to give it the dull look of semi-gloss, just don't polish it. Just a Idea

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: dfasgold ()
Date: July 20, 2009 05:29AM

Thanks for the ideas--I'll let him know. I'm going to suggest that he go with the John Deere black paint if he's set on black--I'll just have to make sure he really, really takes his time with the body work. I guess that the nice thing about the cheap black paint he can redo a section and easily match it if any flaws show up after painting.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: July 20, 2009 06:14AM

Most clear coat paints require the clear coat to be applied over fresh base coat within a fixed time period - hours. If you can't get the clear coat on in time you have to respray the base coat again and then clear coat.
IF YOU DON'T the clear coat will not bond and it will peel in months. A lot of "used car" lots shoot clear coat over old paint to brighten up the car. Then in less than a year the clear coat peels like a bad sunburn.
Some character in S. Calif. did this to old Mercedes for a year or so. Paint looked brand new - for a while - then it was junk.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: ccvair ()
Date: July 20, 2009 07:05AM

Ive seen that duplicolor has the ready to shoot old style laquer(sp) in the cans at 20 some bucks and change 3 cans should do a corvair fairly easy and is easy to shoot not to mention you can clear it at any point.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: streblerm ()
Date: July 21, 2009 12:24AM

The problem with black primer is that it really isn't black. Usually it is more of a brownish or charcoal color. Spraying clear over it will likely only make it more dramatic.

I will respectfully disagree with 66vairman that clear won't stick to old paint, or primer. It absolutely will, as long as you scuff the old paint/primer with something in the neighborhood of 600 grit sandpaper first. If you don't, then it will peel. You can spray clear over basecoat without sanding, for a limited time, because of a chemical bond. In the industry this is known as wet-on-wet application. this doesn't literally mean you don't let it dry. It just means you don't have to sand between coats.

1966 Corsa W/327
1961 Lakewood
An acre of parts

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: shooting clear over black primer
Posted by: Andrew ()
Date: July 21, 2009 12:46AM

It's not the ideal situation to spray clear over old paint but I agree with streblerm. When a body shop repairs only one panel they have to blend the paint onto the adjacent panels. If you don't then the color rarely matches at the edge. This means the color basecoat is "faded" from the edge nearest the repair out to nothing. The the whole panel is scuffed beforehand with a scotchbrite or fine wet sandpaper and then clear is sprayed over the whole panel to bring the shine back. This is pretty much the standard operating procedure for the whole industry. If the clear woudln't adhere to old scuffed paint then all repairs would fail over time....and they don't all fail. Some of them do however and that's usually from using cheap materials or a lack of prep. Mechanical adhesion from scuffing properly is the key.

Here's a very helpful link about the John Deere paint.

[www.crankshaftcoalition.com]

Options: ReplyQuote
Pages: 12Next
Current Page: 1 of 2


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.