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Corvair Center Forum :
Corvair Center Phorum - presented by CORSA
I would not have sat silent! But, then, I never have.... I always point out errors in statements, even when they are mine.....
Frank DuVal
Fredericksburg, VA
Corvair Center
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
whubbell
()
Date: May 12, 2023 08:14AM
I only brought up the Bylaws issue because Allen Lacki quoted from the Bylaws in his announcement. If you’re going to claim authority based on the Bylaws you can’t pick and choose which part of them you want to use.
There is presently no way this election cycle can possibly meet the Bylaws requirements, because in addition to the previously quoted statement that the election phase be a minimum of 2 months, the Bylaws also state:
“ The election ballot shall instruct voting members to mail their completed ballots to the CORSA business office.” (no mention of electronic voting)
AND:
“ Counting of Votes: The Executive Secretary, under the supervision of the Election Chair, shall tally the votes using the ballots that have been received. The Election Chair shall have the right to audit the counting of votes either directly or by way of a qualified appointee. The process of counting votes must be completed no less than three weeks prior to the next annual Board meeting.”
Even with closing the election on May 31, there do not exist the required 21 days (three weeks) before the start of the CORSA convention on June 19th, so that bylaws requirement will also be violated.
Bottom line - they should’ve started this whole process much sooner. But I suspect most of the board members have never even bothered to read the Bylaws.
Bill Hubbell,
President, Stock Corvair Group
There is presently no way this election cycle can possibly meet the Bylaws requirements, because in addition to the previously quoted statement that the election phase be a minimum of 2 months, the Bylaws also state:
“ The election ballot shall instruct voting members to mail their completed ballots to the CORSA business office.” (no mention of electronic voting)
AND:
“ Counting of Votes: The Executive Secretary, under the supervision of the Election Chair, shall tally the votes using the ballots that have been received. The Election Chair shall have the right to audit the counting of votes either directly or by way of a qualified appointee. The process of counting votes must be completed no less than three weeks prior to the next annual Board meeting.”
Even with closing the election on May 31, there do not exist the required 21 days (three weeks) before the start of the CORSA convention on June 19th, so that bylaws requirement will also be violated.
Bottom line - they should’ve started this whole process much sooner. But I suspect most of the board members have never even bothered to read the Bylaws.
Bill Hubbell,
President, Stock Corvair Group
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
Darrin
()
Date: May 12, 2023 08:23AM
Why bring this sort of extreme political paranoia into a car club?
Just seems like conspiracy theory mania to me.
Please just stop.
I would usually say the instigator of this needs to get a hobby, but...
Darrin Hartzler
Catlett, VA
Northern Virginia Corvairs & Group Corvair
Just seems like conspiracy theory mania to me.
Please just stop.
I would usually say the instigator of this needs to get a hobby, but...
Darrin Hartzler
Catlett, VA
Northern Virginia Corvairs & Group Corvair
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
Frank DuVal
()
Date: May 12, 2023 09:30AM
Quote
Jim
The guy giving the Tech Session said the Specification for torquing heads to 35 or 38 was okay and I just sat on my hands. I can only hope that no crankcase threads will suffer from my silence.
I would not have sat silent! But, then, I never have.... I always point out errors in statements, even when they are mine.....
Frank DuVal
Fredericksburg, VA
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
sh011956
()
Date: May 12, 2023 10:02AM
Since our original votes were rejected, at least a few of the Vulcan members have already voted online.
I hope that our votes are not discarded because we voted twice.
Also, the "envelope" votes were cast at the Helen, GA Springfest this year. Votes from other clubs could have been included in with the Vulcan members' votes.
Steve Harris
Decatur, AL
I hope that our votes are not discarded because we voted twice.
Also, the "envelope" votes were cast at the Helen, GA Springfest this year. Votes from other clubs could have been included in with the Vulcan members' votes.
Steve Harris
Decatur, AL
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
Paulsgt
()
Date: May 12, 2023 12:11PM
Thank you Steve.
None of the votes that were received in bulk were counted so your online vote will count.
Enjoy the Corvair!
Paul Sergeant
CORSA Central Division Director / CORSA Treasurer
Lee's Summit, MO
CORSA since 1975
Member – HACOA, Corvair Minnesota, CORSA, Little Indians, POCI
None of the votes that were received in bulk were counted so your online vote will count.
Enjoy the Corvair!
Paul Sergeant
CORSA Central Division Director / CORSA Treasurer
Lee's Summit, MO
CORSA since 1975
Member – HACOA, Corvair Minnesota, CORSA, Little Indians, POCI
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
TexasAg77
()
Date: May 12, 2023 12:45PM
sh011956 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since our original votes were rejected, at least a few of the Vulcan members have already voted online.
>
> I hope that our votes are not discarded because we voted twice.
>
> Also, the "envelope" votes were cast at the Helen, GA Springfest this year. Votes from other clubs could have been included in with the Vulcan members' votes.
>
> Steve Harris
> Decatur, AL
Great, so other folks may or may not know if their vote will be counted...
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since our original votes were rejected, at least a few of the Vulcan members have already voted online.
>
> I hope that our votes are not discarded because we voted twice.
>
> Also, the "envelope" votes were cast at the Helen, GA Springfest this year. Votes from other clubs could have been included in with the Vulcan members' votes.
>
> Steve Harris
> Decatur, AL
Great, so other folks may or may not know if their vote will be counted...
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
junkman
()
Date: May 15, 2023 11:24AM
I am no longer a CORSA member, so I am not sure how my comments will be taken by the membership, however, I will go out on a limb and give you my thoughts.
If the bylaws of the organization call for a 60-day voting procedure and proper notice of the voting to be published in the club's magazine, then that is the standard of what has to happen. If it was late being published, then the bylaws have not been followed, It is up to the Board of Directors to propose a remedy that will be fair to all members.
Most not-for-profit organizations have in their bylaws that they follow Roberts Rules of Order, If CORSA has that in their bylaws, then I suggest that they check with a Professional Registered Parliamentarian, certified by the National Association of Parliamentarians. I am certain that CORSA officers and directors want to ensure that the vote is fair, efficient, and orderly.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woodstock CT... Located on the Connecticut / Massachusetts border, approximately 6 miles from the center of Southbridge MA. About 45 minutes from Hartford CT. 1 1/2 hours West of Boston MA. Woodstock CT to Los Angeles CA 2,937.1 miles. 1 Mile as the crow flies to Big Bird's nest.
If the bylaws of the organization call for a 60-day voting procedure and proper notice of the voting to be published in the club's magazine, then that is the standard of what has to happen. If it was late being published, then the bylaws have not been followed, It is up to the Board of Directors to propose a remedy that will be fair to all members.
Most not-for-profit organizations have in their bylaws that they follow Roberts Rules of Order, If CORSA has that in their bylaws, then I suggest that they check with a Professional Registered Parliamentarian, certified by the National Association of Parliamentarians. I am certain that CORSA officers and directors want to ensure that the vote is fair, efficient, and orderly.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woodstock CT... Located on the Connecticut / Massachusetts border, approximately 6 miles from the center of Southbridge MA. About 45 minutes from Hartford CT. 1 1/2 hours West of Boston MA. Woodstock CT to Los Angeles CA 2,937.1 miles. 1 Mile as the crow flies to Big Bird's nest.
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
whubbell
()
Date: May 18, 2023 11:04AM
Norm Witte has written an email to the CORSA BoD about this topic and has also cross-posted it to the CORSA Facebook Group. He also sent me a copy with the permission to “forward as you see fit”. Here it is:
From: Norm Witte
Date: May 18, 2023 at 10:34:41 AM EDT
To: corsabod@corvair.org
Subject: CORSA BoD Election Irregularities
?
Dear CORSA Board of Directors:
I have been a member of CORSA since approximately 1985, as best as I can recall. I am very concerned with the Society’s decision to reject “harvested” ballots in connection with the current BoD election. While I am an attorney licensed in the State of Michigan with over 35 years of experience in business law and litigation and have represented CORSA in the past, I am not writing as an attorney, but as a concerned member of our venerable organization. Nonetheless, my views are naturally informed by my understanding of the law of corporate governance.
In a number of places I have seen Mr. Lacki making references to Illinois, federal or other state election law as a basis for taking the action of rejecting “harvested” ballots. None of these laws have any application to the BoD election. The Illinois Election Code, found at 10 ILCS 5/1.1 et seq., is voluminous. It applies to public election procedures, and I assure you that CORSA does not remotely conduct its elections in keeping with this statute. For one simple example, CORSA requires voters to identify themselves when voting, while public balloting is anonymous. This reference to public election law is simply an apples to oranges comparison and is not legally relevant.
The Illinois law that governs this election is found in the Illinois General Not for Profit Corporation Act of 1986, 805 ILCS 105/101.01 et seq. Article 7 of that statute governs the rights of the members to vote in elections, and specifically provides the following in 805 ILCS 105/107.40(a):
The right of the members, or any class or classes of members, to vote may be limited, enlarged or denied to the extent specified in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws. Unless so limited, enlarged or denied, each member, regardless of class, shall be entitled to one vote on each matter submitted to a vote of members.
So the rights of members to vote may only be “limited, enlarged or denied” to the extent provided in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws. Regardless of whether “ballot harvesting” is a desirable or undesirable practice, in order for CORSA to deny a member’s right to vote on that basis, that restriction would have to be stated in the articles or the bylaws. No one has mentioned any provision of the articles as yet, so let’s look at what the bylaws have to say. Voting for the Board of Directors is governed by Article VII, Section 3, which states in its entirety as follows:
It is the duty of the Election Chair to ensure the fair and diligent conduct of the following procedure.
Designation of Election Chair. The CORSA Secretary shall serve as the Election Chair each year; provided however, if the CORSA Secretary is eligible for candidacy in a given year, then the CORSA President shall appoint another Board member who is not eligible for candidacy that year.
Process Overview: Elections for the Office of Director shall be consist of four steps to be conducted in the following sequence: (1) opening of nominations, (2) opening of elections, (3) counting of votes, and (4) announcement of results. Any and all announcements required in the Society’s publication may also be posted on the Society’s website and other social media. Similarly, voting may be conducted by way of a suitable online ballot as well as hardcopy ballot.
Opening of Nominations: The Election Chair shall establish the start date and end date for the period when the Society shall accept nominations. The duration of the nomination period shall be no less than two months. At a minimum, the start and end dates shall be announced in the Society’s publication prior the to [sic] start date. Concurrently, nominees who accept their nominations for candidacy shall be instructed to provide an autobiographical article and personal photo for publication in the next issue of the Society’s publication. Any CORSA member in good standing has the right to nominate either himself, herself, or another person; providing that the nominated person is either a regular or lifetime member of CORSA.
Opening of Elections: The Election Chair shall establish the start and end date for the period when the Society will accept voter ballots. The duration of the election period shall be no less than two months. The start and end dates shall be announced in the Society’s publication no later than the start date that has been established. The same issue of the Society’s publication shall also contain the candidate’s biographies, photos and an election ballot. The election ballot shall instruct voting members to mail their completed ballots to the CORSA business office.
Counting of Votes: The Executive Secretary, under the supervision of the Election Chair, shall tally the votes using the ballots that have been received. The Election Chair shall have the right to audit the counting of votes either directly or by way of a qualified appointee. The process of counting votes must be completed no less than three weeks prior to the next annual Board meeting.
Announcement of Results: As soon as possible, the Election Chair shall (1) notify all the candidates of the results so (1) the elected candidates can make arrangements to attend the next annual Board meeting and (2) unelected candidates can make cancellation plans if necessary. Also, the Election Chair shall ensure that the results are publicized in the next available issue of the Society’s publication.
(Emphasis supplied). As you can see, there is no reference to any prohibition on ballot harvesting. The only requirement is that the ballots be mailed, which in fact each of the allegedly “harvested” ballots were.
A possible argument could be made that the election ballot could “instruct” members to place each ballot in a separate envelope, based upon the language in italics above. However, the ballot published in the May 2023 Communique contained no such instruction. The following is a screenshot of that ballot:
image001.png
As you can see, there is nothing in the ballot instructing electors to place only one ballot in an envelope. The bylaws require the Executive Secretary to “tally the votes using the ballots that have been received,” and it is not disputed that the aggregated ballots were, in fact, received. Thus, rejection of and refusal to count valid ballots that have been received by mail in that fashion is a violation of the bylaws.
I understand that this election also violated the timing requirements in set forth in the bylaws, above and I also understand that this was through inadvertence. However, the decision midway through the election to reject ballots and deny votes based upon a new limitation not contained in the bylaws is a clear violation not only of the bylaws but of Illinois law.
Harvesting of ballots is a problem in public elections involving millions of electors where there is a significant possibility of election malfeasance. It is not at all clear that the same harms or issues translate to a relatively small number of members of a non-profit corporation. In fact, some members have stated that not only was this practice used by CORSA chapters in the past, but that it was encouraged as promoting participation in the organization. I take no position as to whether this practice should be allowed or not; my only point is that any restriction on harvesting, to be valid, must be expressly stated either in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws. No matter what anyone’s personal feelings on this issue may be, the officers and board members’ authority is limited by Illinois law, the articles and the bylaws, and this current action exceeds those limitations.
I strongly recommend that the Board of Directors retain independent legal counsel to advise on this issue. I have tried to give you a roadmap to make that process easier, but failure to either get appropriate legal advice and act consistently with that advice or reverse the current position could be catastrophic to our organization.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Norman C. Witte
THIS FIRM IS A DEBT COLLECTOR ATTEMPTING TO COLLECT A DEBT. ANY INFORMATION WE OBTAIN WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE.
Circular 230 Disclosure: The following disclosure is required pursuant to U.S. Department of Treasury Circular 230 which sets forth best practices for tax advisors.
To the extent this writing contains advice on a federal tax issue, the advice was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein. If you would like a written tax opinion upon which you can rely for the purpose of avoiding penalties or for the use in support of the promotion, marketing, or recommending of the transaction described herein, please contact us.
DISCLAIMER/CONFIDENTIALITY: This communication, along with any documents, files or attachments, is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain legally privileged and confidential information. Any document attached is a legal document and should not be changed or altered without the knowledge and approval of legal counsel. The sender takes no responsibility for any alterations, additions, revisions or deletions to any such document. Due to software and printer variations, documents printed at the recipient's location may vary from the original printed document.
Bill Hubbell,
President, Stock Corvair Group
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2023 11:06AM by whubbell.
From: Norm Witte
Date: May 18, 2023 at 10:34:41 AM EDT
To: corsabod@corvair.org
Subject: CORSA BoD Election Irregularities
?
Dear CORSA Board of Directors:
I have been a member of CORSA since approximately 1985, as best as I can recall. I am very concerned with the Society’s decision to reject “harvested” ballots in connection with the current BoD election. While I am an attorney licensed in the State of Michigan with over 35 years of experience in business law and litigation and have represented CORSA in the past, I am not writing as an attorney, but as a concerned member of our venerable organization. Nonetheless, my views are naturally informed by my understanding of the law of corporate governance.
In a number of places I have seen Mr. Lacki making references to Illinois, federal or other state election law as a basis for taking the action of rejecting “harvested” ballots. None of these laws have any application to the BoD election. The Illinois Election Code, found at 10 ILCS 5/1.1 et seq., is voluminous. It applies to public election procedures, and I assure you that CORSA does not remotely conduct its elections in keeping with this statute. For one simple example, CORSA requires voters to identify themselves when voting, while public balloting is anonymous. This reference to public election law is simply an apples to oranges comparison and is not legally relevant.
The Illinois law that governs this election is found in the Illinois General Not for Profit Corporation Act of 1986, 805 ILCS 105/101.01 et seq. Article 7 of that statute governs the rights of the members to vote in elections, and specifically provides the following in 805 ILCS 105/107.40(a):
The right of the members, or any class or classes of members, to vote may be limited, enlarged or denied to the extent specified in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws. Unless so limited, enlarged or denied, each member, regardless of class, shall be entitled to one vote on each matter submitted to a vote of members.
So the rights of members to vote may only be “limited, enlarged or denied” to the extent provided in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws. Regardless of whether “ballot harvesting” is a desirable or undesirable practice, in order for CORSA to deny a member’s right to vote on that basis, that restriction would have to be stated in the articles or the bylaws. No one has mentioned any provision of the articles as yet, so let’s look at what the bylaws have to say. Voting for the Board of Directors is governed by Article VII, Section 3, which states in its entirety as follows:
It is the duty of the Election Chair to ensure the fair and diligent conduct of the following procedure.
Designation of Election Chair. The CORSA Secretary shall serve as the Election Chair each year; provided however, if the CORSA Secretary is eligible for candidacy in a given year, then the CORSA President shall appoint another Board member who is not eligible for candidacy that year.
Process Overview: Elections for the Office of Director shall be consist of four steps to be conducted in the following sequence: (1) opening of nominations, (2) opening of elections, (3) counting of votes, and (4) announcement of results. Any and all announcements required in the Society’s publication may also be posted on the Society’s website and other social media. Similarly, voting may be conducted by way of a suitable online ballot as well as hardcopy ballot.
Opening of Nominations: The Election Chair shall establish the start date and end date for the period when the Society shall accept nominations. The duration of the nomination period shall be no less than two months. At a minimum, the start and end dates shall be announced in the Society’s publication prior the to [sic] start date. Concurrently, nominees who accept their nominations for candidacy shall be instructed to provide an autobiographical article and personal photo for publication in the next issue of the Society’s publication. Any CORSA member in good standing has the right to nominate either himself, herself, or another person; providing that the nominated person is either a regular or lifetime member of CORSA.
Opening of Elections: The Election Chair shall establish the start and end date for the period when the Society will accept voter ballots. The duration of the election period shall be no less than two months. The start and end dates shall be announced in the Society’s publication no later than the start date that has been established. The same issue of the Society’s publication shall also contain the candidate’s biographies, photos and an election ballot. The election ballot shall instruct voting members to mail their completed ballots to the CORSA business office.
Counting of Votes: The Executive Secretary, under the supervision of the Election Chair, shall tally the votes using the ballots that have been received. The Election Chair shall have the right to audit the counting of votes either directly or by way of a qualified appointee. The process of counting votes must be completed no less than three weeks prior to the next annual Board meeting.
Announcement of Results: As soon as possible, the Election Chair shall (1) notify all the candidates of the results so (1) the elected candidates can make arrangements to attend the next annual Board meeting and (2) unelected candidates can make cancellation plans if necessary. Also, the Election Chair shall ensure that the results are publicized in the next available issue of the Society’s publication.
(Emphasis supplied). As you can see, there is no reference to any prohibition on ballot harvesting. The only requirement is that the ballots be mailed, which in fact each of the allegedly “harvested” ballots were.
A possible argument could be made that the election ballot could “instruct” members to place each ballot in a separate envelope, based upon the language in italics above. However, the ballot published in the May 2023 Communique contained no such instruction. The following is a screenshot of that ballot:
image001.png
As you can see, there is nothing in the ballot instructing electors to place only one ballot in an envelope. The bylaws require the Executive Secretary to “tally the votes using the ballots that have been received,” and it is not disputed that the aggregated ballots were, in fact, received. Thus, rejection of and refusal to count valid ballots that have been received by mail in that fashion is a violation of the bylaws.
I understand that this election also violated the timing requirements in set forth in the bylaws, above and I also understand that this was through inadvertence. However, the decision midway through the election to reject ballots and deny votes based upon a new limitation not contained in the bylaws is a clear violation not only of the bylaws but of Illinois law.
Harvesting of ballots is a problem in public elections involving millions of electors where there is a significant possibility of election malfeasance. It is not at all clear that the same harms or issues translate to a relatively small number of members of a non-profit corporation. In fact, some members have stated that not only was this practice used by CORSA chapters in the past, but that it was encouraged as promoting participation in the organization. I take no position as to whether this practice should be allowed or not; my only point is that any restriction on harvesting, to be valid, must be expressly stated either in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws. No matter what anyone’s personal feelings on this issue may be, the officers and board members’ authority is limited by Illinois law, the articles and the bylaws, and this current action exceeds those limitations.
I strongly recommend that the Board of Directors retain independent legal counsel to advise on this issue. I have tried to give you a roadmap to make that process easier, but failure to either get appropriate legal advice and act consistently with that advice or reverse the current position could be catastrophic to our organization.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Norman C. Witte
THIS FIRM IS A DEBT COLLECTOR ATTEMPTING TO COLLECT A DEBT. ANY INFORMATION WE OBTAIN WILL BE USED FOR THAT PURPOSE.
Circular 230 Disclosure: The following disclosure is required pursuant to U.S. Department of Treasury Circular 230 which sets forth best practices for tax advisors.
To the extent this writing contains advice on a federal tax issue, the advice was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the purpose of (1) avoiding penalties under the Internal Revenue Code or (2) promoting, marketing or recommending to another party any transaction or matter addressed herein. If you would like a written tax opinion upon which you can rely for the purpose of avoiding penalties or for the use in support of the promotion, marketing, or recommending of the transaction described herein, please contact us.
DISCLAIMER/CONFIDENTIALITY: This communication, along with any documents, files or attachments, is intended only for the use of the addressee and may contain legally privileged and confidential information. Any document attached is a legal document and should not be changed or altered without the knowledge and approval of legal counsel. The sender takes no responsibility for any alterations, additions, revisions or deletions to any such document. Due to software and printer variations, documents printed at the recipient's location may vary from the original printed document.
Bill Hubbell,
President, Stock Corvair Group
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/18/2023 11:06AM by whubbell.
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
ihscomputers
()
Date: May 18, 2023 11:26AM
Thank you Norm and Bill.
Now we wait to see what action, if any, the Board of Directors pursues based upon this well-researched and thoughtfully composed letter.
I pray that they choose to do the right thing as quickly as possible.
Dean F. Gemberling
Columbus, Georgia
Heart of Georgia Corvair Club Webmaster
Springfest Webmaster
1963 Rampside w/305 V8 - Built by Ken Arnold in 1998
1965 Monza Coupe - Converting from Drag Race Car to Nice Street Car - 63 Buick 215 V8
Now we wait to see what action, if any, the Board of Directors pursues based upon this well-researched and thoughtfully composed letter.
I pray that they choose to do the right thing as quickly as possible.
Dean F. Gemberling
Columbus, Georgia
Heart of Georgia Corvair Club Webmaster
Springfest Webmaster
1963 Rampside w/305 V8 - Built by Ken Arnold in 1998
1965 Monza Coupe - Converting from Drag Race Car to Nice Street Car - 63 Buick 215 V8
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
Timothy Shortle
()
Date: May 18, 2023 04:39PM
Forgive me, I have not been interested in reading this topic until today and so I ask "What the hell is this all about"? I always felt we were Corvair people and that we were better than that.
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
Lane66m
()
Date: May 18, 2023 05:05PM
Wow. I just renewed for 2 years. Just I could say I was a member. I don't get no benefits from the membership. Except taking to a few other members at functions and online.
Leadership: follow the bylaws. You are not immune from being wrong. Just do better. This all should have started in the March Communique. Where was the election coordinator. That person should know the bylaws about el3ctions process inside and out. Also update bylaws to include electronic voting and sealed signed ballots in a single mailer from club secretaries.
Other than that, good luck. I am definitely not voting in this mess.
Al
Georgia
Leadership: follow the bylaws. You are not immune from being wrong. Just do better. This all should have started in the March Communique. Where was the election coordinator. That person should know the bylaws about el3ctions process inside and out. Also update bylaws to include electronic voting and sealed signed ballots in a single mailer from club secretaries.
Other than that, good luck. I am definitely not voting in this mess.
Al
Georgia
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
1966-Corsa-GT-180
()
Date: May 18, 2023 05:34PM
Timothy Shortle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forgive me, I have not been interested in reading this topic until today and so I ask "What the hell is this all about"? I always felt we were Corvair people and that we were better than that.
IMHO, It is about being overly "casual" with the process of conducting matters before the BoD.
Any non-profit club with a "Board of Directors (BoD) needs to follow the ByLaws and procedures of the club to make sure that all members "Corvair People" are represented and that the purpose of the club (advancement of the Corvair "image" and the "Society" aspect is properly conducted.
It's not a "full time job". It is an important duty.
I'm sure it will be reviewed, and corrected and more importantly, observed with better diligence in the future.
CORSA has done an immense amount of work to put together educational and entertaining information and conventions.
Long time Corsa Member and former Western Director.....
Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CCF admin ~
CORSA +Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 Corsa 140 Coupe ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Convertible Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza Spyder Convertible ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 CoupeEvening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468
-------------------------------------------------------
> Forgive me, I have not been interested in reading this topic until today and so I ask "What the hell is this all about"? I always felt we were Corvair people and that we were better than that.
IMHO, It is about being overly "casual" with the process of conducting matters before the BoD.
Any non-profit club with a "Board of Directors (BoD) needs to follow the ByLaws and procedures of the club to make sure that all members "Corvair People" are represented and that the purpose of the club (advancement of the Corvair "image" and the "Society" aspect is properly conducted.
It's not a "full time job". It is an important duty.
I'm sure it will be reviewed, and corrected and more importantly, observed with better diligence in the future.
CORSA has done an immense amount of work to put together educational and entertaining information and conventions.
Long time Corsa Member and former Western Director.....
Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CCF admin ~
CORSA +Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 Corsa 140 Coupe ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Convertible Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza Spyder Convertible ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 CoupeEvening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
Spectre
()
Date: May 18, 2023 05:44PM
I’ve been a member of CORSA for at least 25 years and I need to renew this month. It is this kind of stuff within the organization that drives people away. If the Board doesn’t like the idea of a club gathering members votes and sending them in, the bylaws need to be amended. For this election cycle, they need to be counted, My $0.02
David Clamp
1965 Corsa convertible - 140 4spd/3.55/AM-FM
2009 Porsche 911 Carrera
"Victory is mine!" - SG
Yukon, OK
David Clamp
1965 Corsa convertible - 140 4spd/3.55/AM-FM
2009 Porsche 911 Carrera
"Victory is mine!" - SG
Yukon, OK
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
ihscomputers
()
Date: May 18, 2023 06:38PM
CORSA Directors need to hear from you.
In addition to posting here and Facebook, I strongly recommend that you contact one of your Division Directors to share your thoughts and opinions so that they can make a well-informed decision regarding this election.
Click below to access the Directory of CORSA Officials:
(Please note that this information is publicly listed on the CORSA website with no requirement for an online account. Therefore, posting the link here is not violating anyone's privacy or security.)
Directory of CORSA Officials
Dean F. Gemberling
Columbus, Georgia
Heart of Georgia Corvair Club Webmaster
Springfest Webmaster
1963 Rampside w/305 V8 - Built by Ken Arnold in 1998
1965 Monza Coupe - Converting from Drag Race Car to Nice Street Car - 63 Buick 215 V8
. Last edit at 05/18/2023 06:39PM by ihscomputers.)
In addition to posting here and Facebook, I strongly recommend that you contact one of your Division Directors to share your thoughts and opinions so that they can make a well-informed decision regarding this election.
Click below to access the Directory of CORSA Officials:
(Please note that this information is publicly listed on the CORSA website with no requirement for an online account. Therefore, posting the link here is not violating anyone's privacy or security.)
Directory of CORSA Officials
Dean F. Gemberling
Columbus, Georgia
Heart of Georgia Corvair Club Webmaster
Springfest Webmaster
1963 Rampside w/305 V8 - Built by Ken Arnold in 1998
1965 Monza Coupe - Converting from Drag Race Car to Nice Street Car - 63 Buick 215 V8
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
Allan Lacki
()
Date: May 30, 2023 07:41PM
An Apology from Your Secretary & Election Chair
On My 24, 2023, the Board of Directors of the Corvair Society of America of America, voted unanimously to hire independent attorney, licensed in the State of Illinois where the Society incorporated, to provide an opinion as to whether or not the Secretary to the Board of Directors, in his capacity as Election Chair, had the authority to cast out harvested ballots for the election of Directors.
Today, I received a letter stating his opinion. According to his letter, received today, May 30 2023, the Election Chair has no such authority. And so, the harvested ballots will be counted in the election because the bylaws of the corporation do not provide such authority to the Election Chair.
Therefore, I have recommended to the Executive Secretary should count such harvested ballots to be counted. Photocopies of all the ballots have been made, so the correction can and will be made.
I apologize for overstepping my bounds and I wish all of you well for expressing your opinions here on Facebook about this situation.
My offer stands to resign as Secretary, subject to a vote of non-confidence at the CORSA membership meeting at the Wisconsin Dells convention.
Allan Lacki,
Secretary to the Board of Director & Election Chair
Corvair Society of America
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2023 07:43PM by Allan Lacki.
On My 24, 2023, the Board of Directors of the Corvair Society of America of America, voted unanimously to hire independent attorney, licensed in the State of Illinois where the Society incorporated, to provide an opinion as to whether or not the Secretary to the Board of Directors, in his capacity as Election Chair, had the authority to cast out harvested ballots for the election of Directors.
Today, I received a letter stating his opinion. According to his letter, received today, May 30 2023, the Election Chair has no such authority. And so, the harvested ballots will be counted in the election because the bylaws of the corporation do not provide such authority to the Election Chair.
Therefore, I have recommended to the Executive Secretary should count such harvested ballots to be counted. Photocopies of all the ballots have been made, so the correction can and will be made.
I apologize for overstepping my bounds and I wish all of you well for expressing your opinions here on Facebook about this situation.
My offer stands to resign as Secretary, subject to a vote of non-confidence at the CORSA membership meeting at the Wisconsin Dells convention.
Allan Lacki,
Secretary to the Board of Director & Election Chair
Corvair Society of America
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/30/2023 07:43PM by Allan Lacki.
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
JimBrandberg
()
Date: May 30, 2023 08:33PM
I don't know much about what's going on but I'd hate to see a willing participant and worker resign or anything.
I don't do Facebook or anything so all I know about it is this one thread here on Corvair Center
I can't see people getting all wound up about this stuff but then I've got a lot to do.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com
I don't do Facebook or anything so all I know about it is this one thread here on Corvair Center
I can't see people getting all wound up about this stuff but then I've got a lot to do.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
jasvair
()
Date: May 30, 2023 09:25PM
Since this has now been settled and the votes will be counted I believe there should be an extra month put on to make sure all the ballets that were returned to clubs can be resubmitted.I have been a member of Corsa since 1971 and I have never seen a mess like this.
John Sweet
Ex Corsa Director
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2023 03:34PM by American Mel.
John Sweet
Ex Corsa Director
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2023 03:34PM by American Mel.
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
Ratt643
()
Date: May 30, 2023 09:37PM
Well, kinda late now to say that the harvested ballots will be counted, after word went out to almost every club that the harvested ballots would not be counted. I hope that all the ballots that were rejected get counted.
1964 Monza Coupe
1965 Corsa 140
1967 Monza Coupe
Maryville, TN
U.S. 129 The"Tail Of The Dragon"
1964 Monza Coupe
1965 Corsa 140
1967 Monza Coupe
Maryville, TN
U.S. 129 The"Tail Of The Dragon"
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
davemotohead
()
Date: May 30, 2023 10:01PM
Well maybe a lot of the original voters don't want their original ballots to be counted at this time, seems to me after all this a lot of them might want to change their votes? I mean this apology come a day before the voting ends? 
1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)
-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca
1960 4dr sedan caveman car
1961 Rampside (Chetside)
1962 Rampside (Barnside)
1962 Short Rampside (Shortside)
1962 Monza 700 Wagon
1963 Monza 900 coup (General Nader)
-----------------------------------
Rust Free Lancaster Ca
Re: CORSA Board of Directors Election & Ballot Harvesting.
Posted by:
Darrin
()
Date: May 30, 2023 10:23PM
Can someone on the board pleasetell us how much this foolishness cost the club in legal fees?
Darrin Hartzler
Catlett, VA
Northern Virginia Corvairs & Group Corvair
Darrin Hartzler
Catlett, VA
Northern Virginia Corvairs & Group Corvair
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