Thank you for reading this and please provide any ideas on potential causes and what to look for.

What’s going on: Issue is that I cannot shift into 2nd gear … with two different rebuilt transmissions. Very, very similar symptoms.
I can Shift into Reverse, 1, 2,3,4th easily while sitting still in workshop with engine running and using clutch. Cannot shift 1st to 2nd when car is rolling forward, just won't get there. It crunches sometimes. I can start off in 2nd gear and drive off. I have not gone out on a road test.

Background: Spyder started having difficulty shifting (4spd #1) One day, I could not get into 2nd gear so I parked the car and installed a spare transmission (4spd #2) that was rebuilt by P. Kehler in 2017.
Unfortunately, the Kehler rebuild had issues during the initial test drive – difficult shifting into 2nd!!! Ugh. Maybe I messed up something during swap.

Rebuild 4spd #1: inspected and we found a sheared off tooth on the counter gear, so the rebuild was started. Replaced new synchro blockers confirming proper fit, all typical rebuild parts along with new F/R bearings as well as replacement used counter gear & new counter shaft. After the rebuild 4spd #1 was reinstalled. Unfortunately, once again, 4spd #1 was having difficulty shifting into 2nd gear. Started checking everything i could think of.

What I tried with 4spd #1 installed:
Inspected clutch cable (no fraying), Adjusted clutch linkage (cross shaft outboard lever clearance, clutch pedal free play looks good). Checked gearbox oil for proper level. replaced clutch fork (that had weak springs) and also replaced shift coupler with Clark’s nylon shift coupler with new clamp. During this ordeal I have used a shop vac with small hose to suction out old gear oil before refilling. Started with filling using Brad Penn GL4. Switched that to Red Line MT-90 synthetic 75W90 GL-4 and finally changed that to AMSoil 75w-90 GL-4 (in both gearboxes now). Results with each oil were same.

The re-test with Kehler rebuild.
Today I finished swapping gearboxes again, re-installing Kehler gearbox to check if anything I worked on had solved the problem. No Way! drive off and try to get 2nd, no work... crunch.
I drove off in 2nd and shift to 3rd is OK. Did not go for road test. Static shifting (in shop at 2000-2500RPM) feels a little notchy and a couple of times it felt like it hung up a little going into reverse but I cant be sure as I was a bit frustrated already. Decided to walk away and ponder the next steps.

My next step. Grit my teeth and take it out on the road, moving off in 2nd gear and put a few miles of shifting 3-4, 4-3, etc. to see if that changes anything. We have no hills so taking off in 2nd gear should be easy enough.
Suggestions welcome. Thank you

Ken
'62 Spyder
Florida





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/21/2023 08:17PM by MattNall.

I had the exact same problem! My problem came up after changing transaxle lube on two perfectly fine transmissions.

I had installed Sta-Lube 85w90 GL4 only to learn its cold viscosity is roughly double the recommended viscosity, measured in centistokes and this knowledge came from Richard Widman, who helped me figure it out.

Drained both and put in Brad Penn 80W90 GL4 and all instantly became well. I understand the Amsoil 75w85 GL4 also works well. FWIW, the original spec was 80wt and that's the crux of the matter. Any higher cold viscosity can lead to a "no-shift" condition when the oil is cool or cold.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
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66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
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+17 Tons of parts

I've used that same Sta-lube for years and it has never been a problem even below freezing. Shifting is a little stiff until it gets some heat going but far from a no shift condition. A lube problem should show up in all gears but differently in reverse since it has no synchro.
Maybe try giving more detail on what you mean by "no shift" at first you just say no shift but toward the end you say "crunch".

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 145 Corvairs and counting...

"Maybe try giving more detail on what you mean by "no shift" at first you just say no shift but toward the end you say "crunch". "

Having tried it on the long driveway from workshop to street, mostly it feels like something is preventing it from getting into 2nd gear from the neutral spot. Getting out of 1st is no issue. On a few tries, when i pull a little harder it starts to move but kicks back and crunches so i let go and push on the clutch to prevent further gear grinding. When i took off in 2nd, getting out of 2nd into 3rd seemed to be OK, but i ran out driveway and didn't want to get on busy street.

Ken
'62 Spyder
Florida

Plan your route and go out and shift from 1st to 3rd to 4th. If you have to stop, again, 1st to 3rd to 4th. Drive 10 to 15 miles to get some decent heat in the trans. Now try 1st to 2nd to 3rd. If it begins to shift normally and gets better the further you drive, you've found your issue. Change the lube. Do it when it's warm.

"Run She May, Shine She Must"
Been Aircooled Since 1973
Northwest Ohio 45840

Is the clutch releasing completely? I like to check for this with foot on the floor clutch pedal, shift into reverse, now shift into neutral and then back into reverse. The whole time holding the clutch pedal to the floor. If it grinds or won't go into reverse the second time the clutch is dragging.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

Thanks for the suggestions, I will check clutch release and then drive it to get some heat in there.

Ken
'62 Spyder
Florida

"but kicks back and crunches so i let go and push on the clutch" you should already have the clutch pushed in while shifting.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 145 Corvairs and counting...

Could be a second gear blocker ring is sticking. Did the blocker ring have good retention and release on second gear when you fitted the Clark’s blocker rings? If these don’t release, it won’t shift.

C.A. Rose
Metairie, LA
1962 Spyders

joelsplace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "but kicks back and crunches so i let go and push on the clutch" you should already have the clutch pushed in while shifting.
Ken reply - yessir, I am pushing in the clutch to shift. My frustration had me frazzled, this should have stated "crunches so i let go and then push into neutral".

caroseiii Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Could be a second gear blocker ring is sticking. Did the blocker ring have good retention and release on second gear when you fitted the Clark’s blocker rings? If these don’t release, it won’t shift.
Ken reply - When the Clark's blocker rings were installed in recent rebuild, precautions were taken by (experienced) rebuilder to check for proper retention/release. This recent rebuild is sitting on the bench at the moment.
The transmission currently installed and having these symptoms was rebuilt in Jan 2017 by P.Kehler - my hunch is that he used OEM blocker rings back in 2017 but no way to confirm as it sat in a crate for 5 years without being installed.

The situation is - two transmissions, one rebuilt in 2017 and one rebuilt in 2023 are both having the same issue. I'm re-checking everything that is external to the transmission(s) this next week.
Again, thank you guys for the ideas, keep them coming.

The clutch release mentioned by Rex is the only other variable since you wrote that you could start the car in second gear.

C.A. Rose
Metairie, LA
1962 Spyders

RexJohnson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is the clutch releasing completely? I like to check for this with foot on the floor clutch pedal, shift into reverse, now shift into neutral and then back into reverse. The whole time holding the clutch pedal to the floor. If it grinds or won't go into reverse the second time the clutch is dragging.

I will be using this technique to test/confirm clutch release.

It could be a tight pilot bushing, but since it started with the old trans that probably isn't the problem. I had some similar thing happen and it was the clutch cable beginning to go bad. Lost a few strands and stretched, then it broke totally and the problem was solved.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2023 KIA K5 GT/GT1 turbo-AKA ZIPPY II (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
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2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa

You’ve got a bad 2 gear syncro, one or more of the 3 dogs could have fractured. Blocker ring bad, not installing the thick washer on the reverse light switch will jam things up. But your going to have to tear it down

1964 Bill Thomas Monza Replica Racer
1964 Spyder Street Car
1998 Honda Prelude Dirt track car
1967 Crown V8 under construction
Mike Levine
Cumming Georgia
North of Atlanta

Perhaps I'm missing it in your first post but what about the shift linkage adjustment? We're working on one this week where that was off but it was obvious at the shift lever base.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com

I tend to think the clutch adjustment is still off. For some strange reason, if
the clutch isnt fully released, balky bad shifting is displayed most in second, especially if the oil is too cold or wrong viscosity or both.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
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engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car
Test Start#2 [www.youtube.com]

New Clutch disc? Over 0/320? thick?

Try putting front wheels against curb, 4th gear and "burn" the clutch in!

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Got a chance to test for “clutch dragging” using the technique as Rex recommended. It seemed ok first time but then during a repeat test it crunched for sure going into reverse. Seems that clutch release is a little off.

This coming weekend I will put it up on the lift and check clutch cable from end to end, clutch cable/linkage adjustment, shift linkage adjustment as well as check the backup light switch for proper washer.
Thanks guys.

Too thick disc is more prevalent than it used to be. Sometimes I need to over adjust the clutch for a while to get it in gear and drive it around ans slip the clutch. My problem has been not getting it into gear at all, not trouble with 2nd.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com