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Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: jimc ()
Date: November 17, 2022 08:13AM

My remarks are all in good fun!

Just got our annual friendly letter from our county tax assessor regarding personal property tax assessment on our cars.

The rising value of Corvairs and counties inability to live within their budget has them “requesting” more money from its citizens.

I called county tax assessor and received very quickly a live person with answers, surprise. For comparison my 26 year old S10 was only half the assessed value as my 57 year old Corvair! Our Corvair went up 700% in Assessed Value from previous year. Our county used 2021 October NADA book trade-in value to determine fair market value x 33-1/3% x tax levy of your city = assessed value x a Magician’s Wand = your tax rate due.

Folks, be prepared to dig deeper for licensed cars or maybe you already have and my county/state is slow to the tax party.

Oh well it was and is still an affordable ride and now we pay the piper, freebies are not always free to all of us?

I can not imagine what my son’s friend pays in personal property tax on his nineteen year old 2003 911 Turbo! Yikes.

Jimc
1965 Corsa Coupe, two owner history


HACOA Member
CORSA 2017 Concours Senior Gold Award
AACA 2015 Award

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Date: November 17, 2022 08:24AM

Fortunately, we don't have that nonsense here.

Yet.......


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CCF admin ~
CORSA +Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 Corsa 140 Coupe ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Convertible Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza Spyder Convertible ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 CoupeEvening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: wittsend ()
Date: November 17, 2022 08:49AM

You gave percentage increases and not actually cost so it is hard to compare.

California doesn't used an assessed value like you are experiencing. Frankly what State agency has the time to go and do that with each vehicle??? Here the registration costs are higher when new and decline over a period of time. That said the lowest cost to register a car in California is at least $130 a year.

I haven't bought a new car in 12+ years but my neighbor bought a brand new Dodge truck going back about 5 years ago. Since he spent his summers in Minnesota and was going to retire there in a few years he registered it there. The California plate readers caught him and sent him a bill that was over $1,000! He put his brand new truck in his backyard and trailered it to Minnesota that summer. I believe the Minnesota cost on his new truck were somewhere between $100-$150.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

***'61 Lakewood, a "Freebie" in hibernation for 27 years - In the process of applying CPR.***

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: November 17, 2022 09:08AM

ADA has a program with the states that collect personal property tax on automobiles, such as CT. The good news is that the assessment of vehicles is limited to $500 if you have it registered as an antique or classic vehicle. The vehicle must be 25 years old to qualify.
MA has an excise tax on vehicles that are based on the original dealer cost of the vehicle and declines every year until it reaches a plateau of I believe $5 or $10 per vehicle.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woodstock CT... Located on the Connecticut / Massachusetts border, approximately 6 miles from the center of Southbridge MA. About 45 minutes from Hartford CT. 1 1/2 hours West of Boston MA. Woodstock CT to Los Angeles CA 2,937.1 miles. 1 Mile as the crow flies to Big Bird's nest.

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: November 17, 2022 09:27AM

My Uncle Vince (R I P) was a lifelong member of the John Birch Society. We used to think he was a "nutcase" (extremist). Now as I have gotten older I am not so sure he was wrong in his thinking.

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: November 17, 2022 10:43AM

I just registered my 65 a couple weeks ago here in Virginia, with antique plates, so I don’t know what if any property taxes I’ll have to pay. As for our other vehicles, it’s based on current value AND mileage. I was in the assessors office earlier in the year and was told I can go back 3 years to get a refund on any overpayment due to mileage. I just have to provide proof of mileage at the time, like an invoice for work or the yearly inspection report. So I’ll be visiting them before December!

Rocco

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: November 17, 2022 12:39PM

Property tax Assessment of vehicles ? ? ? eye popping smiley
I thought you were joking, when I read your post.
But then others chimed in with the same thing.
Are you guys CaRzY ? ? ?
Who tolerates that kind if IsAnItY ? ? ?
It is well past time you guys voted those Bums out of office and straightened out the regulations in your states!

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: cschneider53 ()
Date: November 17, 2022 01:20PM

While I never got to enjoy the no income tax benefits of living in WA (ca source income), I do miss the significantly lower vehicle registration costs. I don't miss the incessant rain or sales tax on services/labor.

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: aircooledairhead ()
Date: November 17, 2022 01:27PM

States with low or no income taxes tend to get their funds by taxing property, including motor vehicles. In SC, I pay $330 for one car(2019)and $85 for the 2013. State income tax rates are low with many exemptions and exclusions.

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: Paulsgt ()
Date: November 17, 2022 03:17PM

Jim, you need to get historic plates in MO. They only charge you like $99 and it's a permanent plate. I just ordered historic, personalized plates for my 62 Monza (in MO) and it was like $146.00 or some such. Again permanent plate.

Enjoy the Corvair!

Paul Sergeant
CORSA Central Division Director / CORSA Treasurer
Lee's Summit, MO
CORSA since 1975
Member – HACOA, Corvair Minnesota, CORSA, Little Indians, POCI


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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: November 17, 2022 04:54PM

American Mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Property tax Assessment of vehicles ? ? ? eye popping smiley
> I thought you were joking, when I read your post.
> But then others chimed in with the same thing.
> Are you guys CaRzY ? ? ?
> Who tolerates that kind if IsAnItY ? ? ?
> It is well past time you guys voted those Bums out of office and straightened out the regulations in your states!

I had to get a replacement title from Illinois for my Corsa, it got lost in the move 11 years ago. They’re $50, and take 8-10 weeks, OR, get it expedited for $80 total and it was here in a week. New title, registration and antique plates came out to $65 here in Virginia. I was a little stunned when I first got here and had to pay property tax on my car, never had that in Illinois. But property tax my 1749 sq ft home on your typical suburban lot in Illinois? When I sold it in 2015 I paid just under $8k, it’s now around $8,600.00.

My same size home here in Virginia on 5 beautiful acres, with a little creek running along and across the property? $1850, so that car tax isn’t quite so taxing. And our roads are superior.

Rocco

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: November 17, 2022 05:11PM

Washington state (as cshneider53 points out), has no income tax, and does NOT raise revenue off of ridiculous taxes on vehicles.
Yes, we have an annual registration fee, but it is fairly reasonable compared to some places.
(It is based on the purchase price of the vehicle. Buy USED, and SAVE! Buy a restored car, and pay a lot. Buy a beater and it will be much cheaper. When you restore it, the value is not reassessed. That happens when someone buys it for the higher price.)
Our Sales Tax Rate is 6.5%, though regional County or City Sales Taxes, can push that up to 7.5% to 10.6% depending on where you go.

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: November 17, 2022 07:00PM

Quote
Mel
Property tax Assessment of vehicles ? ? ? eye popping smiley
I thought you were joking, when I read your post.
But then others chimed in with the same thing.
Are you guys CaRzY ? ? ?

Mel, it takes $X to run your town/county/state. Divide by number of people, that's the average everyone pays. Lucky some areas get business to pay also, but, business gets it's money to pay taxes from the people, so it is still people that pay. No way around it.

I LIKED the personal property tax on vehicles, as I could choose what vehicle(s) I wanted to own, therefore determine MY tax burden. Then Gov. Gilmore comes along and gets voted in on "No Car Tax!". Of course, the localities collected that tax, and kept it, the state had nothing to do with it. So, local revenue went down, but bills still need to be paid. EVERYTHING else went up! Things I had no control over! Real estate rate about doubled overnight. Everything now had a line item tax if it was a local thing, like parks, recording items at courthouse, meals tax, local sales tax..... And, the "Car Tax" did not go away, it was just reduced 50%. It sucks, I would like to be more in control of my tax burden, but I'm not giving up my garage and move into a 1000 sq ft house.angry smiley

Property tax on my 25+ year old vehicles is still negligible. Not as negligible as when I lived in Henrico County and most everything I owned was $1.52 every year, before Gov. Gilmore ruined it!eye popping smiley

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: jimc ()
Date: November 17, 2022 07:31PM

I purposefully didn’t give values but the increase was 700% so you can draw your own conclusions, but it more than tripled in out of pocket $$$

I am not going to appeal as the market value per Oct 2021 was within tolerable limits.

Jimc
1965 Corsa Coupe, two owner history


HACOA Member
CORSA 2017 Concours Senior Gold Award
AACA 2015 Award

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: jimc ()
Date: November 17, 2022 08:52PM

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your input, however I am aware of Missouri historic permanent plate, but it has limits as to when you can use the car (weekends and parades), mileage and for what purpose. In past I was told by Missouri Highway Patrol and Motor vehicle staff that the Missouri Historic permanent tags restricted use of historic vehicle to “parades and weekends” driving and mileage per year, and keeping a log as to use.

Why all this record keeping drama? Revenue! The state would loose income with a $99 one time license payment and loss of income for vehicle inspections and potential increase in mechanical defects by fewer vehicle inspections.
Also I was told by Motor Vehicle Department that you are subject to a fine if caught driving a historic tagged vehicle to work during week except to a repair shop.

The Missouri Vehicle website:
According to Missouri Department of Revenue:
- “ Historic vehicle may be driven up to 1,000 miles per year and I was told that was a limit.”
- “The owner must keep a log in the car of its use at all times”
- “The plate is not transferable.” minor inconvenience to me.

If this info is not correct than I don’t have a problem other than keeping a log and other such silliness for a non commercial vehicle use.

As far as tax assessment:
An interesting post on this forum a few years ago by a member, in another state, told his story of his Corvair property tax having increased from several hundred dollars to $1000 or more as I remember, again this was a few years ago even before Corvair values increased. This forum member mentioned he bought permanent plates after years of standard tags and when he got his personal property tax statement his Corvair tax (actual out of pocket) had dramatically increased from previous years with standard tags and this was before classic car increases. The gent inquired with his county/state tax department and was told the assessor was using antique auto auctions as another source of determining values for old cars rather than considering it was just an old depreciating car.

Maybe our state policies have changed but not according to people I spoke to at Revenue Department. They did offer that if I disagreed with assessment I could appeal by sending in photos of exterior and interior and engine compartment. Since I just renewed tags I will stick with current plan for next two years.

However, I will be curious if your Vair with permanent historic tag sees a big jump in property tax compared to previous years on standard tags.

Please Keep us posted.

Jimc
1965 Corsa Coupe, two owner history


HACOA Member
CORSA 2017 Concours Senior Gold Award
AACA 2015 Award

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: tboltkc ()
Date: November 18, 2022 10:02AM

When I changed my plates to historic (MO) the assessor's office actually called to make sure I wanted to do that because instead of valuing it as some old car, they actually looked at the value.

At the time this did not have a big impact on taxes on my Corvairs ????

As for the log and the usage, you'd have to run into a pretty bored cop to bother pulling you over and checking that. I have 4 cars with year of manufacture plates and have yet to be questioned. And the log isn't mileage A to mileage B, it's "I drove X miles to work and back."

-Travis


'65 Corsa; '63 Convertible; '62 Wagon; '65 4 Door
Heart of America Corvair Owners Assocation (Kansas City, MO)
[www.hacoa.org]

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: November 18, 2022 04:37PM

Quote
jimc
I was told by Missouri Highway Patrol and Motor vehicle staff that the Missouri Historic permanent tags restricted use of historic vehicle to “parades and weekends” driving and mileage per year, and keeping a log as to use.
.
The Missouri Vehicle website:
According to Missouri Department of Revenue:
- “ Historic vehicle may be driven up to 1,000 miles per year and I was told that was a limit.”
- “The owner must keep a log in the car of its use at all times”
- “The plate is not transferable.” minor inconvenience to me.


Wow!
Those are some tight restrictions.
Only 1000 miles per year!?!?!?
I thought most states allowed 3000 miles per year.
Parades and weekends only?
What about Club events? Seems to me that Oregon allows Club Events in there, and a week-night CORSA meeting IS a Club Event!
I guess that mileage Log-Book, is to prevent somebody from carrying the unused miles from one year, over into the next?
It is ALL CrAzYness to me.
I'll gladly keep my cars registered from regular use and have unlimited access to them. (Yes, that includes regular insurance too.)

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: tboltkc ()
Date: November 18, 2022 04:40PM

American Mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
Quote
jimc
> I was told by Missouri Highway Patrol and Motor vehicle staff that the Missouri Historic permanent tags restricted use of historic vehicle to “parades and weekends” driving and mileage per year, and keeping a log as to use.
> .
> The Missouri Vehicle website:
> According to Missouri Department of Revenue:
> - “ Historic vehicle may be driven up to 1,000 miles per year and I was told that was a limit.”
> - “The owner must keep a log in the car of its use at all times”
> - “The plate is not transferable.” minor inconvenience to me.
>
>
>
> Wow!
> Those are some tight restrictions.
> Only 1000 miles per year!?!?!?
> I thought most states allowed 3000 miles per year.
> Parades and weekends only?
> What about Club events? Seems to me that Oregon allows Club Events in there, and a week-night CORSA meeting IS a Club Event!
> I guess that mileage Log-Book, is to prevent somebody from carrying the unused miles from one year, over into the next?
> It is ALL CrAzYness to me.
> I'll gladly keep my cars registered from regular use and have unlimited access to them. (Yes, that includes regular insurance too.)


MO does also allow club or "educational" events.

-Travis


'65 Corsa; '63 Convertible; '62 Wagon; '65 4 Door
Heart of America Corvair Owners Assocation (Kansas City, MO)
[www.hacoa.org]

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: TexasAg77 ()
Date: November 18, 2022 04:49PM

YOM plates on both vairs. Yep, restrictions to weekends and events, etc, but drove the '63 5800+ miles doing the RT 66 deal and not a single issue in any of the states we went thru. After all, you are always headed to the parts store or a test drive.

And those YOM plates cost about a 1 time $30.

No income tax in TN and while the sales tax is a little high it easily offsets any vehicle valuation BS that the OP is seeing, etc...

And property taxes in TN are WAY less than TX where we used to live. God bless the Volunteeer state.

Ed McClintock
Cleveland TN
Choo Choo Corvairs
'61 Lakewood,,63 Vert, '83 Jeep CJ-8 Scrambler- [www.cj-8.com]

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Re: Taxes and Corvairs
Posted by: PequotMonza64 ()
Date: November 18, 2022 07:58PM

Paulsgt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jim, you need to get historic plates in MO. They only charge you like $99 and it's a permanent plate. I just ordered historic, personalized plates for my 62 Monza (in MO) and it was like $146.00 or some such. Again permanent plate.
>

In Ohio, I think a personalized historic plate may also cost $99.

However, you then have to pay $25 per year forever, whereas a state issued generic plate has no annual renewal.

I have a 1964 Ohio plate I was going to put on my car, but I'm too cheap to pay the initial fee (maybe $59) and the $25 annual fee to have the 64 plate on my car.

Glen in Ohio
1964 Monza Sedan Powerglide 110 hp
Low mileage survivor, stock as delivered
Records back to 1967 in Pequot Lakes, Minnesota
Original dealer Mike Turk's in East Liverpool, Ohio
Located in Cleveland, Ohio area


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