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Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
doug6423
()
Date: August 30, 2022 12:21PM
Thanks Eric & Eric!
I plan to install the whole setup on my Tom Keo engine I bought. I also have the air intake bellow that Kevin has 3D printed. So I'll have all three mounted.
Currently on the 110 engine installed, I never deflashed it and on hot humid days it will trigger the warning light. But it's all stock and I've never put the fan on it to see if it would cure that problem. I was going to, but after buying Tom's engine I don't plan on putting anything else to the 110 engine.
Doug
65 Monza
Cincy, OH
I plan to install the whole setup on my Tom Keo engine I bought. I also have the air intake bellow that Kevin has 3D printed. So I'll have all three mounted.
Currently on the 110 engine installed, I never deflashed it and on hot humid days it will trigger the warning light. But it's all stock and I've never put the fan on it to see if it would cure that problem. I was going to, but after buying Tom's engine I don't plan on putting anything else to the 110 engine.
Doug
65 Monza
Cincy, OH
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
playerpage
()
Date: August 30, 2022 12:31PM
Now I'm curious about that intake.
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
63turbo
()
Date: August 31, 2022 01:08AM
doug6423 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> playerpage Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> > I have had to dance on the throttle before, to stay away from 450, even with the Nash fan, but with the pulley added I couldn't get it past 400(ish), and I tried. Every time I stopped pushing it, and instead ran steady, the needle dropped pretty quickly. I hit the freeway for the return jaunt, and came home reading 370. The temps dropped a little more while idling in the driveway for a minute.
>
> Eric, you make it sound like the pulley makes all the difference. I was under the impression the fan made a majority of the difference. Sell my fan and just keep the pulley??
Eric's experiences are further demonstration as to what happens when a really high flowing and high pressure fan is installed in a inlet that is too damn small. It is much the same situtation as stuffing a big engine in a small car and then insisting on putting the small car carburetor on and then wondering why the engine isnt making the power it should. The Corvair fan shroud was originally sized to be "about right" for an 80 hp engine, and then never changed it. AND it is plugged up because of the rim of the pulley! I could go on and on about this but to make it real simple, consider an E flow turbo, an F flow turbo and a B flow turbo.... all of these compressor wheels have the same outside diameter. Its the inlet that "changes the size" the most on those! The inlet diameter to exducer diameter (o.d. of wheel) ratio for an E-flow is approximately .75, an F is approximately .65 and that little B flow is only .55. This same ratio applied to our stock fan intake factoring the pulley blockage is .55, and is actually quite a bit worse than that when applied to my fan because the fan has a considerably larger diameter than the mag fan. To really get most of what this fan has to offer cooling wise, the intake area needs to get bigger, a lot bigger. Eric was the first one to demonstrate conclusively that increasing the intake area in that manner, with no other changes improves cooling. For heat challenged applications, the guidevane bell and pulley is the way to do it, as the intake area is increased by 25% which is much more in line for a fan of that size. Adding the bell increases the pressure another 25%, which is approximately a 12% gain in flow at the same fan rpm!!
------------------------------------
Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car
Test Start#2 [www.youtube.com]
-------------------------------------------------------
> playerpage Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
>
> > I have had to dance on the throttle before, to stay away from 450, even with the Nash fan, but with the pulley added I couldn't get it past 400(ish), and I tried. Every time I stopped pushing it, and instead ran steady, the needle dropped pretty quickly. I hit the freeway for the return jaunt, and came home reading 370. The temps dropped a little more while idling in the driveway for a minute.
>
> Eric, you make it sound like the pulley makes all the difference. I was under the impression the fan made a majority of the difference. Sell my fan and just keep the pulley??
Eric's experiences are further demonstration as to what happens when a really high flowing and high pressure fan is installed in a inlet that is too damn small. It is much the same situtation as stuffing a big engine in a small car and then insisting on putting the small car carburetor on and then wondering why the engine isnt making the power it should. The Corvair fan shroud was originally sized to be "about right" for an 80 hp engine, and then never changed it. AND it is plugged up because of the rim of the pulley! I could go on and on about this but to make it real simple, consider an E flow turbo, an F flow turbo and a B flow turbo.... all of these compressor wheels have the same outside diameter. Its the inlet that "changes the size" the most on those! The inlet diameter to exducer diameter (o.d. of wheel) ratio for an E-flow is approximately .75, an F is approximately .65 and that little B flow is only .55. This same ratio applied to our stock fan intake factoring the pulley blockage is .55, and is actually quite a bit worse than that when applied to my fan because the fan has a considerably larger diameter than the mag fan. To really get most of what this fan has to offer cooling wise, the intake area needs to get bigger, a lot bigger. Eric was the first one to demonstrate conclusively that increasing the intake area in that manner, with no other changes improves cooling. For heat challenged applications, the guidevane bell and pulley is the way to do it, as the intake area is increased by 25% which is much more in line for a fan of that size. Adding the bell increases the pressure another 25%, which is approximately a 12% gain in flow at the same fan rpm!!
------------------------------------
Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car
Test Start#2 [www.youtube.com]
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
scottymac
()
Date: September 03, 2022 10:06PM
playerpage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look what I found on my front porch.
Eric,
Can you confirm delivery was by FedEx? Thanks!
Scott
Danville, In.
'65 Corsa coupe basket case
'66 Monza coupe
-------------------------------------------------------
> Look what I found on my front porch.
Eric,
Can you confirm delivery was by FedEx? Thanks!
Scott
Danville, In.
'65 Corsa coupe basket case
'66 Monza coupe
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
AlecCarlson
()
Date: September 04, 2022 08:12AM
Got my pulley on friday (delivered by FedEx) and installed it yesterday.
Just waiting for the rain to stop so I can try out the complete package.
Alec
Dahlonega, GA
1965 Corsa Convertible Turbo 4-Speed
Restoration "In Progress"
Just waiting for the rain to stop so I can try out the complete package.
Alec
Dahlonega, GA
1965 Corsa Convertible Turbo 4-Speed
Restoration "In Progress"
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
isucorvair
()
Date: September 06, 2022 12:55PM
Got my Pulley sometime over the weekend. Took the week off to PM / Repair the fleet of Corvairs, so on it will go (today?)
Eric P.
DeWitt, IA
Eric P.
DeWitt, IA
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
playerpage
()
Date: September 06, 2022 04:39PM
Alec,
Since you're also running a turbo, I'd be interested in your cooling curves.
All,
I took my Bluvair on a Four-hour round trip on Saturday, a trip to nowhere just to get a photo for a "Dad joke."
The car stayed between 350 and 390, with occasional spikes brought on by a restored turbo, empty roads, and a lead foot. No lights or buzzers though; I had a lot of those on the old engine/fan setup.
That sounds hotter than other drivers of the Nash System, I know, but most of the heat issues I have, even now, can be traced to the lead foot defense. I am what might be called a timid driver in town, usually. Even my wife tells me to speed up. But on an open road where I am sure not to hit anything or anyone, the John Player Racing gene kicks in.
Turbos always heat up under load, and I always load the turbo.
Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'
Since you're also running a turbo, I'd be interested in your cooling curves.
All,
I took my Bluvair on a Four-hour round trip on Saturday, a trip to nowhere just to get a photo for a "Dad joke."
The car stayed between 350 and 390, with occasional spikes brought on by a restored turbo, empty roads, and a lead foot. No lights or buzzers though; I had a lot of those on the old engine/fan setup.
That sounds hotter than other drivers of the Nash System, I know, but most of the heat issues I have, even now, can be traced to the lead foot defense. I am what might be called a timid driver in town, usually. Even my wife tells me to speed up. But on an open road where I am sure not to hit anything or anyone, the John Player Racing gene kicks in.
Turbos always heat up under load, and I always load the turbo.
Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'
Attachments:
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
zarfnober
()
Date: September 06, 2022 06:09PM
Eric, are you using the stock head temp gauge, or an aftermarket gauge?
Rocco
Rocco
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
doug6423
()
Date: September 06, 2022 07:31PM
Finally getting it put on my TomKeo engine. I don't recall any pictures of it without the shroud around it. Next is finish the fitting of the airbellow and mounting it to the shroud.
Doug
65 Monza
Cincy, OH
Doug
65 Monza
Cincy, OH
Attachments:
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
Bali
()
Date: September 06, 2022 10:00PM
Did you seal all your engine tin like Kevin Nash did on his?
playerpage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alec,
>
> Since you're also running a turbo, I'd be interested in your cooling curves.
>
> All,
>
> I took my Bluvair on a Four-hour round trip on Saturday, a trip to nowhere just to get a photo for a "Dad joke."
>
> The car stayed between 350 and 390, with occasional spikes brought on by a restored turbo, empty roads, and a lead foot. No lights or buzzers though; I had a lot of those on the old engine/fan setup.
>
> That sounds hotter than other drivers of the Nash System, I know, but most of the heat issues I have, even now, can be traced to the lead foot defense. I am what might be called a timid driver in town, usually. Even my wife tells me to speed up. But on an open road where I am sure not to hit anything or anyone, the John Player Racing gene kicks in.
>
> Turbos always heat up under load, and I always load the turbo.
playerpage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Alec,
>
> Since you're also running a turbo, I'd be interested in your cooling curves.
>
> All,
>
> I took my Bluvair on a Four-hour round trip on Saturday, a trip to nowhere just to get a photo for a "Dad joke."
>
> The car stayed between 350 and 390, with occasional spikes brought on by a restored turbo, empty roads, and a lead foot. No lights or buzzers though; I had a lot of those on the old engine/fan setup.
>
> That sounds hotter than other drivers of the Nash System, I know, but most of the heat issues I have, even now, can be traced to the lead foot defense. I am what might be called a timid driver in town, usually. Even my wife tells me to speed up. But on an open road where I am sure not to hit anything or anyone, the John Player Racing gene kicks in.
>
> Turbos always heat up under load, and I always load the turbo.
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
playerpage
()
Date: September 06, 2022 10:27PM
All,
Yes I am using a stock gauge, but it turns out that I'm an idiot. When going back through my memory about temperatures, I realize I was reading the "300" mark as 350.
So I am telling everyone higher cruise temperatures than am actually experiencing.
The spikes are real, though. I don't think anyone has their shrouds sealed as well as Kevin.
The important thing is that when not under load I'm running a lot cooler than I previously reported.
Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'
Yes I am using a stock gauge, but it turns out that I'm an idiot. When going back through my memory about temperatures, I realize I was reading the "300" mark as 350.
So I am telling everyone higher cruise temperatures than am actually experiencing.
The spikes are real, though. I don't think anyone has their shrouds sealed as well as Kevin.
The important thing is that when not under load I'm running a lot cooler than I previously reported.Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
doug6423
()
Date: September 07, 2022 03:33PM
Bali Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you seal all your engine tin like Kevin Nash did on his?
>
I don't plan to.
Doug
65 Monza
Cincy, OH
-------------------------------------------------------
> Did you seal all your engine tin like Kevin Nash did on his?
>
I don't plan to.
Doug
65 Monza
Cincy, OH
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
63turbo
()
Date: September 08, 2022 10:58PM
doug6423 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bali Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Did you seal all your engine tin like Kevin Nash did on his?
> >
>
> I don't plan to.
With your trick intake system, on an NA engine, its probably better you have some extra leaks, it will help it warm up a little better
Your fan and pulley colors look WILD!
------------------------------------
Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car
Test Start#2 [www.youtube.com]
-------------------------------------------------------
> Bali Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> > Did you seal all your engine tin like Kevin Nash did on his?
> >
>
> I don't plan to.
With your trick intake system, on an NA engine, its probably better you have some extra leaks, it will help it warm up a little better
Your fan and pulley colors look WILD!
------------------------------------
Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car
Test Start#2 [www.youtube.com]
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
cooterr
()
Date: March 18, 2023 09:23PM
Kinda jumping on a thread here, but it's close...
Any info on the next production run for the fan
Tom Miller
Circle City Corvairs
Corsa
Any info on the next production run for the fan
Tom Miller
Circle City Corvairs
Corsa
Re: Nash Fan Matching Pulley
Posted by:
63turbo
()
Date: March 18, 2023 11:37PM
cooterr Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kinda jumping on a thread here, but it's close...
> Any info on the next production run for the fan
The run is supposed to start very soon. We have WAY more than the
minimum necessary to do it but are still taking orders. More the
merrier you know!
------------------------------------
Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car
Test Start#2 [www.youtube.com]
-------------------------------------------------------
> Kinda jumping on a thread here, but it's close...
> Any info on the next production run for the fan
The run is supposed to start very soon. We have WAY more than the
minimum necessary to do it but are still taking orders. More the
merrier you know!
------------------------------------
Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car
Test Start#2 [www.youtube.com]
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