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Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: mrmel ()
Date: August 13, 2022 04:33PM

I read under a different post comments from Rex Johnson regarding how to obtain the wide ratio of the early 61/3 using the 64/5 mainshaft.
I have considered doing this for some time.
I am listing in more detail how I would go about doing it and would appreciate any comments. I'm using 61/3 1st and 2nd gears not late FC gears Here goes:

MAINSHAFT ASSEMBLY

A) Rear of 64/5 mainshaft
1) slide 28T gear on rear of mainshaft
2) Install early 1-2 brass ring
3) Press any assembled 1-2 synchronizer assly and sleeve on mainshaft
4) Put early 1-2 brass ring into rear of 1-2 synchronizer
5) Slide on 31T 1st gear
6) Install late thick thrust washer
7) Press on assembled rear bearing retainer
8) Install selective fit snap ring. NOTE no other spacers

cool smiley Front of mainshaft

1) Install late 3rd gear (earlier is thicker)
2) Install late 3-4 brass ring
3) Press on assembled late 3-4 synchronizer assly
4) Install late 3-4 brass ring
5) Install snap ring
6) Install assembled clutch gear (Does this have to be early 64 clutch gear?)
This is why in a separate posting I have asked about how to identify an
early 64 clutch gear.Please see cluster gear comment below.


Cluster gear

Any 61/3 one hole cluster gear 15T on small end OR an early 64 FC one hole 15T
cluster gear. I'm assuming this will be compatible with an early 64 clutch gear. It all seems to go back to my original question how do you recognize an early 64 clutch gear. Please respond. I really want to get this done.

Mel H

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Re: Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: August 13, 2022 08:42PM

Yes you would need the 1st design '64 clutch gear and as was answered in your other post it has to do with the angle of the nose of the clutch gear. Remember that a '61-'3 clutch gear could be used but you would have the small input shaft. The reason this hybrid will work is because the early '61-'3 counter gear is the same as the 1st design '64 FC trans thus you can run early and later gears on the same counter gear.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

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Re: Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: mrmel ()
Date: August 15, 2022 05:06PM

Thanks for the reply Rex. I am now comfortable to proceed with assembly. I ordered 2 early brass rings today and will proceed when I receive them. I will post my results.

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Re: Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: nirvairna ()
Date: August 15, 2022 05:47PM

this is an interesting combination, so you will end up with:

3.65 first
2.34 second
1.44 third
1.00 fourth

is that correct? same ratios as 61-63 but stronger?

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Re: Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: August 15, 2022 06:00PM

Yes

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

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Re: Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: mrmel ()
Date: August 15, 2022 06:10PM

I 2nd Rex's yes. It's because of him that I started thinking about doing this.
I live in the mountains and am putting together a 64 corvan. I think the wide ratio transmission with the stronger parts will be good for what I want.

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Re: Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: August 15, 2022 07:55PM

It would be interesting to put a 61-3 cluster gear next to a 64-5 (64 2nd FC) cluster gear and see if the gears are all in the same place.

In your original post you wrote: "I read under a different post comments from Rex Johnson regarding how to obtain the wide ratio of the early 61/3 using the 64/5 mainshaft."

The layout of the 61-3 and 64-5 mainshaft is quite different with a change to the central hub location and different shim locations. I would expect there were adjustments to the gear locations on the cluster gear buy maybe not. If the mainshaft changes cause changes to the cluster gear locations, that could throw a wrench into your plans. A comparison of EM & LM cluster gears will tell that tale.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
65 Canadian Monza 4dr 110/PG 40k
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

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Re: Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: mrmel ()
Date: August 15, 2022 08:13PM

Isn't the early 1 hole 15T 61/3 cluster gear the same as the early one hole 15T 64 FC cluster gear?
Assuming they are then the same cluster gear was used on both the early and late mainshafts.
Am I missing something here?
I was not considering using a 64 2nd FC cluster gear as that's a 2 hole cluster gear and not compatible with the early 64 clutch gear as I recently found out.

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Re: Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: August 15, 2022 08:49PM

The '61-'3 countergear is the same part number as the first design '64 FC counter gear. That means the counter gear will mesh with the early and late gears in either transmission case. The early and late 1st and 2nd gears are the same dimensions when it comes to the mainshaft. I have assembled the early gears onto the '64-'5 mainshaft. The only issue I had was figuring out that the '64-'5 washer between 1st gear and the rear bearing is thicker.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

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Re: Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: August 16, 2022 10:35AM

I realize GM made the changes for a reason but has anyone experienced failures due to the weaker parts? I wonder how much synthetic lube would mitigate any issues?

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 138 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: mrmel ()
Date: August 27, 2022 06:22PM

Like Rex I assembled a late mainshaft following the procedure I posted using an early first gear and second gear and an early 64 clutch gear.
I've also assembled an early 15T cluster gear.
When I have time I will assemble everything in a late case.
I want to post pictures and share my experience.
I took a picture of the mainshaft on my Iphone and transferred the picture to my desktop. The lowest resolution I could get was slightly over 500kb. How do I overcome this?

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Re: Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: August 27, 2022 06:55PM

Use a grapics program.

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Re: Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: mrmel ()
Date: August 28, 2022 05:27PM

Matt--What exactly graphics program are you referring too?

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Re: Hybrid early 4spd transmission
Posted by: cnicol ()
Date: August 28, 2022 06:10PM

mrmel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Matt--What exactly graphics program are you referring too?


In the PC world, every Windows machine has "Paint" which resizes easily. I use 20 percent to yield images in the 100-150kb range.

Another option is Microsoft's free Image Resizer, one of their downloadable "Power Toys". Image Resizer is even simpler: You just hover over the image's file name and "right click". One of the dropdown options is "Resize Image" where you choose "Custom" and 1024x640 as the image size. Very simple.

Craig N. Coeur d'Alene ID.
66 Black Monza 4dr, 4.2L V8 49k
61 Seamist Jade Rampside 140 PG
65 Canadian Monza 4dr 110/PG 40k
66 Sprint Corsa convt - First car! Re-purchased 43 years later
2+2 gnatsuM 5691

+17 Tons of parts

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