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64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: arctic_man ()
Date: August 12, 2022 04:48PM

Greetings,

I recently purchased a 64 Spyder and the engine is seized. I am wondering if any Corvair owners have clever ideas to free it up. I have both heads off and one side soaking in trans fluid. With the pistons being aluminum I don't want to try beating on the pistons with anything but a block of wood.

The problem I see is I am not sure if a piston or several are stuck or the crank may be frozen? I am no stranger to turning wrenches but this is the first stuck engine I have encountered.

The trans is separated and I have the engine on a stand. I have the harmonic balancer off and have been working the bolt. Careful not to break it.

Honestly the engine itself looks pretty good considering its age. Cylinder walls looked real good. The heads looks alright. A few intake valves will probably be replaced. So I am not sure if I am just not giving it all the beans I got or if it is truly stuck or stuck somewhere I am not thinking of.

Other fun facts: I was told it ran when it was parked 10 years ago. Oil smelled like gas and real thin when I drained the pan. Has a non electric fuel pump.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2022 04:49PM by arctic_man.

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Re: 64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: DOUG WARD ()
Date: August 12, 2022 04:57PM

Artisman, I acquired a seized engine too. It had sat in a coastal salty environment for several years. I had to actually cut a couple of the head studs off so the head could be removed. Lots of beating on that too until it gave up & let go. It takes a lot of patience with a wood block & large rubber hammer. The damage amounted to a broken cylinder & 2 cut studs. I was surprised at how nice the engine was internally though. It did get a complete overhaul & ran strong.

Doug Ward
Orange, Calif.
65 Corsa 180, 64 Monza convertible, 61 Lakewood, 61 Monza


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Re: 64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: arctic_man ()
Date: August 12, 2022 05:10PM

The stories of an engine freeing up at least make me feel better, lol. I am trying not to get impatient and have only had it soaking for a tad. In fact, I just got the 2nd set of heads off today.

The studs themselves look good. One side had three pull up. The other had only one. I am debating on replacing them all but they look good. This rebuild is a slow burn so I am telling myself that it is okay that it is not free. But I don't want to toss money into additional parts until I know the engine itself is good.

I guess that money could go to more PB Blaster, trans fluid, and the good ole WD40.

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Re: 64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: August 12, 2022 06:10PM

Have you removed the top crankcase cover to inspect the rods?

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Re: 64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: roger65180 ()
Date: August 12, 2022 06:33PM

I would use a block of wood and a good hammer place the block on the horizontal sides of the pistons give each piston a good rapp on both sides of the piston and all 6 pistons . do not put much torqk on the balancer bolt . from your discription it should come loose

Roger R
Madison Wi
62 ct pg turbo
65intercooled 180 4sp,autocrosser
62 Rampy

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Re: 64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: Darrin ()
Date: August 12, 2022 06:37PM

I have freed up a few and had them run great with some work, one only had 10k miles on it from new and it took weeks. Runs perfectly. Soaking and rocking on the wrench a bit every time you pass by rather than force.

Darrin Hartzler
Bethesda, MD/Catlett, VA

Northern Virginia Corvairs & Group Corvair

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Re: 64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: arctic_man ()
Date: August 12, 2022 06:52PM

Yes, rods look good. Again, minor surface rust on a few areas. But overall it looks pretty good.

I figure as I do just that, Darrin; and every so often I give it a nudge I will buy the parts I will probably need either way. Also work on restoring and painting the parts I have already taken off.

The problem I have which I assume there is no solution to other than a giant dunk tank is that I can only soak one side at a time, as it is a boxer engine. Right now I have the passenger side facing upward which is the head I just removed. I will probably let this side soak and massage it while I am out in the shed and eventually soak the other side some more, and then eventually turn it correctly and work both sides when I start to get real serious about it.

Here are some pictures in no particular order. I can get better shots this weekend. But this is where it stands so to speak. lol

[imgur.com]

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Re: 64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: DOUG WARD ()
Date: August 12, 2022 08:05PM

As you soak the cyl's that are facing up, try putting some penetrant down the bottom ones from the inside, now that you have the top of the case opened up. I wouldn't but any parts until you can clean & inspect all the components of the engine. ( bearings ( usually marked on the backside as to what size they are), rings ( depends on what the bore size is ), cylinders, pistons ( check the ring lands & the pistons are usually marked as to what bore size they are),journals, cam wear, condition of the 2 piece damper pulley at the rear of the engine, valves, guides. Especially get the crankshaft checked & ground / polished before you get bearings.It's sometimes less expensive to let the crankshaft people supply the bearings with the job. Also holds true if the cylinders need boring. Let him get the correct rings. Do NOT accept Grant rings ! They have a bad expander under the oil control rings & they will never seat.
Now, get busy & get to it. LOL

Doug Ward
Orange, Calif.
65 Corsa 180, 64 Monza convertible, 61 Lakewood, 61 Monza


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Re: 64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: arctic_man ()
Date: August 12, 2022 08:10PM

Oh yea. I ain't buying anything related to the engine itself. But whatever happens I do intend to keep the body and suspension. It also looks good. But brake lines, fuel lines, clutch cable. So on and so fourth. Tires... I am sure we all have had that battle.

And yes, don't worry. I will get cracking. Watching penetrating oil work is just as exciting as watching paint try. Ha.

Oh and the lower cylinders are also filled. So I am working both ends. It just takes time.. Sigh.

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Re: 64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: caroseiii ()
Date: August 12, 2022 08:52PM

Cut the rods and remove the assemblies.
Sometimes you have cut off the cylinders.
Crawford

C.A. Rose
Metairie, LA
1962 Spyders

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Re: 64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: August 13, 2022 06:29AM

Ditto on putting it sideways on the stand to get oil in there from above on one side and below on the other side, rotating every day or two. I use 50/50 ATF and a
Acetone.

I've never heard Grant rings have a bad expander, is that common knowledge or an isolated experience? I use moly most of the time but Grant cast iron sometimes.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



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Re: 64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: DOUG WARD ()
Date: August 13, 2022 10:55AM

Jim, it happened to me on 2 different engines. Massive blow by & U S Navy smoke screen amounts of exhaust smoke. The engines went thru a quart of oil in less than 100 miles The ring expanders are too small in the vertical dimension as it sits in the land, behind the rings. The rings just slide by the expander & rest against the bottom of the land depth.They will never seat if the expander isn't pushing them out to press against the wall of the cylinder.
Jeff at California Corvairs also said he has had bad experiences with these rings. I am referring to the cast ones, not the chrome ones.

Articman, you have probably done it but since the heads are off, try heating the cylinders with a propane torch. It might help loosen things up.

Doug Ward
Orange, Calif.
65 Corsa 180, 64 Monza convertible, 61 Lakewood, 61 Monza


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Re: 64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: arctic_man ()
Date: August 13, 2022 11:40AM

Ha. I don't want to go start cutting things off yet. But I will certainly keep that in mind. Obviously the issue with boxer engines is I cannot get the cylinder rod bolts out as one side is blocked.

I have tried heating it up a tad. I haven't gone full throttle yet. Originally I was heating it up to get the first head off. But that was before I had it on a stand. So I did not have the leverage that a stand provides. Way easier when you can beat on both sides of the head instead of just one.

Once I clean an oil catch pan up I will probably start rotating it. I would like to collect the fluid to both recycle and also re-use. As I am using it to just soak I figure there is no harm in collecting it and using it on the other side. I could try filling up one side to the top with fluid, putting a bag or something over it, and then rotating it around. But that seems like a lot of work.

I have an aluminum piston from a caliper that I was trying to use to tap the cylinder. But I left a few witness marks. So I will have to find some wood that will fit. A 2x4 is just a tad too long, so I will have to find some stock 2x2.

If it continues to not budge, I will take some detailed pictures. Not that I guess it matters. She stuck. Ha. But like I said, cylinder walls look good. The intake valves that were open are rusty. So I am thinking it must have been moisture over the years. It was stored inside but on a dirt floor, which isn't the best.

I have a family member that is hooking me up with a professional valve grinder from the 80s. So my goal is to re-grind the valves and then lap them to seat them. Replace the ones that are bad, and go from there.

Once this thing rotates I will probably start a build thread. Plenty of work to be done, and I am not going to lie... I did not take the best of notes when I took all the sheet metal off. But I doubt I am the only one.

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Re: 64 Spyder stuck engine
Posted by: DOUG WARD ()
Date: August 13, 2022 08:06PM

artic, the rod cap nuts are a bit hard to reach. You are going to have to be able to rotate the engine so you can get the nuts up to where you can get a good wrench on it to get it loose & then finish removing each one with a small 1/4" ratchet with a short 7/16" socket. Just bring each one up to where you can reach it . It's probably the hardest to reach parts to work with on these engines.

Doug Ward
Orange, Calif.
65 Corsa 180, 64 Monza convertible, 61 Lakewood, 61 Monza


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