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Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: Alberto ()
Date: August 04, 2022 11:06AM

WAGONMASTER,
The drums still come off fairly easily.

This could be the problem:
"...one or both wheel cyl. pistons sporadically hanging up in their bores..."
The hoses & wheel cyl. are all new.

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: KenHenry ()
Date: August 04, 2022 01:30PM

I have also experienced tight rear brakes due the rubber hose collapsing and failing to release pressure from the wheel cylinders with my foot off the brake. Ken

Ken Henry, Rochester, NY USA
1965 Corvair Corsa
140 hp, 4 speed

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: Wagon Master ()
Date: August 04, 2022 07:06PM

Alberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The right rear brake keeps overtightening 'self adjusting'.
> Any guidance would be apreciated.
> Thanks,
> Al

Please explain to us the symptoms of your right rear brake over adjusting, when the drum can be removed normally. confused smiley

Been aircooled since 1973
Northwest Ohio 45840

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: Alberto ()
Date: August 05, 2022 07:57AM

Thank you all for your help.
I am still not sure what the probem is, however when I disassembledeverything, I found that the spring in the picture was there, but broken & crushed. Could this be the culprit?

Attachments:
Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: August 05, 2022 07:59AM

To the best of my knowledge thats just an anti rattle spring for when the park brake is not actuated.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: August 05, 2022 07:24PM

Quote
Ken
I have also experienced tight rear brakes due the rubber hose collapsing and failing to release pressure from the wheel cylinders with my foot off the brake. Ken

YES! This is the number one reason I replace aged rubber brake hoses. Number two is cracks.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: Alberto ()
Date: August 06, 2022 09:36AM

KEN & FRANK>
I did replace all hoses when I re-did the brakes. Is there a wayy to determine if the hose is failing?
Or should I just go ahead & replace the hose & wheel cylinder?

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: Richard ()
Date: August 06, 2022 10:25AM

I thought the problem was with the RIGHT rear.

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: Alberto ()
Date: August 06, 2022 09:12PM

I am having the problem with the right side (passenger) rear brake.
You may be confused by the photo which is of the other (drivers) side.
I took that photo because the spring on the side in question was destroyed.

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: RobertC ()
Date: August 06, 2022 11:06PM

Alberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am having the problem with the right side (passenger) rear brake.
> You may be confused by the photo which is of the other (drivers) side.
> I took that photo because the spring on the side in question was destroyed.

It might be easier for people to diagnose your problem if you post pictures of the problem side - including showing both shoes...

rather than people guessing based on your written description...

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: irfgt ()
Date: August 07, 2022 05:41AM

With the aid of a helper, remove the offending brake drum and have the helper slowly apply the brakes. The shoes should expand then retract when brakes are released. If they do not retract, loosen the brake bleeder and see if they retract. If they do the problem is in the hydraulic system holding pressure. If they don't retract you have a problem with the cylinder, backing plate, springs or shoes or park brake.

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: August 07, 2022 05:46AM

I have had bad hoses, it usually pulls to one side or another. It only takes a few minutes to switch hoses from side to side, rather than throwing money at the problem. Also, if you bleed the brakes by using your hand on the brake pedal rather than you foot, you can feel the resistance of a collapsed one.

I'll go back to what I said the first time, file open either the adjuster or the shoe.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: AZ Troy ()
Date: August 07, 2022 02:22PM

Alberto,
Your "good side" is filthy & wet. Most likely the wheel cylinder is leaking.

In my opinion you need a complete brake system diagnosis because you have more than one issue.

You stated" I have redone my whole (stock) brake system.
The right rear brake keeps over tightening 'self adjusting'.
I cannot figure out why this is happening.
Any guidance would be appreciated.


I don't understand a over tightening self adjuster but the drum can be easily removed. should be the opposite.

A redone brake system should be clean, dry, & mostly dust free.Yours are none of those.

Brakes are not easy for everyone, but seems like everyone tries to do them at home. I would not trust driving a car with brakes lke yours. What are you going to do when a 10 year old girl in a wheel chair rolls out in front of you 7 your brakes are not set up correctly?

I'm not bad mouthing you or your ability. I'm just saying that not everyone can do (or should attempt) every repair.

find a Corvair mechanic or a good brake shop in your area.

If you mixed fluid types, the wheel cylinders can leak, the fluid can coagulate & cause the wheel cylinder pistons to stick or return slowly.

I wish you luck with your choice.






.




.

Troy G. / Scottsdale Arizona

'65 140 Corsa Coupe, White with light blue guts
'66 140 Corsa Coupe - Crown Converted in the '60's, Black with 3 Yellow stripes

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: Alberto ()
Date: August 07, 2022 06:35PM

Thank you, AZTROY for your feedback & concern. Let me respond:

1. "Your "good side" is filthy & wet."
"A redone brake system should be clean, dry, & mostly dust free. Yours are none of those"

The "good side" picture was an old photo, just to highlight the particular spring that 'self-destructed'. Rest assured that the 3 assemblies other than the right rear are, in fact, clean, 'newish' looking & operating fine and, as I stated, all 4 were completely redone less than 500 miles ago.

2."I don't understand a over tightening self adjuster but the drum can be easily removed. should be the opposite."....

You are absolutely correct. I am confused, also, which is why I approached this forum.

I believe "KEN", "FRANK" & "WAGONMASTER" have given me some good advice as to a possibly 'sticky' wheel cylinder or a collapsing rubber hose. I will definitely check those out.

3. "Brakes are not easy for everyone but seems like everyone tries to do them at home."

I disagree! Brakes especially these on the Corvair, are quite simple. Anyone who has any experience with doing their own brakes should find this as a "beginner" level project.

4. "I'm not bad mouthing you or your ability."

Understood! However, please understand that I have done literally dozens of brake jobs. So, as they say, this is not my first rodeo.

5. "If you mixed fluid types, ...the fluid can coagulate & cause the wheel cylinder pistons to stick or return slowly."

Thank you for that insight. I did my best to 'flush out' the old fluid but may need a second go around!

6. " What are you going to do when a 10-year-old girl in a wheelchair rolls out in front of you...find a Corvair mechanic or a good brake shop in your area. "

Seriously?!? I believe these responses are inappropriate for a forum where people, like me, are looking for solutions to unusual issues not ed-ops like that.

Thank you & I will share with all when I do figure out what the problem is!

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: Richard ()
Date: August 07, 2022 06:49PM

>>2."I don't understand a over tightening self adjuster but the drum can be easily removed. should be the opposite."...
You are absolutely correct. I am confused, also, which is why I approached this forum.<<

"over tightening self adjuster". This doesn't sound like you are describing the actual problem. Try describing what the over tightening is doing.

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: Alberto ()
Date: August 07, 2022 07:09PM

By overtightening I mean:

I adjusted the new brakes to be quite loose.
I went to an empty parking lot and, while rolling in reverse, applied the brakes, several times.
I kept doing this until they were all responding nicely.
Then a week or so later I took a 60+/- mile drive. Upon arrival I could feel that the brakes were dragging, and I could smell that they were hot.
I went around the car and felt each brake drum...3 were 'warm' and the right rear blistered my finger. It was ridiculously hot.
Once the brakes cooled off (after several hours) I adjusted the right rear again to be very loose, but, by the time I got home, it was too hot to touch, again.

Now that it was brought to my attention (thank you all on this forum) and finding that the drum came off quite easily, I am beginning to think that it is a 'sticking' wheel cylinder (maybe due to incompatible fluids?) or perhaps a faulty hose.

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: Ratt643 ()
Date: August 07, 2022 07:21PM

Parking brake adjusted too tight?

1964 Monza Coupe
1965 Corsa 140
1967 Monza Coupe

Maryville, TN
U.S. 129 The"Tail Of The Dragon"

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: Alberto ()
Date: August 07, 2022 07:23PM

"Parking brake adjusted too tight?"

Nope, very loose & operating (releasing) correctly.

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: AZ Troy ()
Date: August 07, 2022 07:35PM

Alberto,
It is not the self adjusters job to correctly set the free play (air gap) of a newly redone brake system.The self adjuster is there to self-adjust the free play in the system as the brake shoes & drums wear over time.

The brake technician should correctly adjust the shoes before driving the vehicle & not rely on the self adjusters to to that job.

Its hard to diagnose online, but is it possible that you only have 1 brake working correctly?

If i touched a brake drum after a drive i would expected to be burned by each one, not just one. Under hard braking I have seen brake rotors or drums glow red from heat dissipation. Normal operating temperatures for most drum brakes range from 150 degrees F. to 400 degrees F. but Temperatures can exceed 600 degrees F., too hot for my fingers.

If you drive in an open lot, with no one around & hit the brakes hard at 35 MPH, does only the right rear skid?

What type of brake fluid are you using DOT-3, DOT-4, DOT-5, or DOT-5.1?

Is it possible that the smell you have is because the drums had oil, brake fluid, or wheel bearing grease on them?

All brake components should be free of contaminants before being put into service, but especially the drums & shoes.


FYI...the 10-year old girl being hit by a car with an improperly completed brake job happened to a friends dad when I was in school & it is burned into my memory, sorry if I bothered you, I was trying to help you too.




.

Troy G. / Scottsdale Arizona

'65 140 Corsa Coupe, White with light blue guts
'66 140 Corsa Coupe - Crown Converted in the '60's, Black with 3 Yellow stripes




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2022 07:43PM by AZ Troy.

Re: '65 Corsa Rear Brakes
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: August 08, 2022 10:49AM

Quote
AZ Troy
find a Corvair mechanic or a good brake shop in your area.

Like typical mechanics in any area are well versed on drum brakes. Might as well look for a good carburetor guy too!eye popping smiley

The number of Corvair mechanics is decreasing all the time. Around here it is club members helping or take it to the Ranch. That can be a 200+ mile trip.

We Corvair owners are the carburetor and drum brake technicians. Sometimes we need a little assistance. That is why we are here.

I do agree not all Corvair owners know enough right ways to fix drum brakes, I've seen some crap methods.... and they were not open to suggestions they were wrong. Aaaghhh.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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