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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: August 04, 2022 04:55PM

Also remember (the group) that money is relative. $10,000 may not be much to some but maybe A LOT to others. I agree with FL Steve. 4500-6000 is probably a fair value.

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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: mhughes30 ()
Date: August 05, 2022 04:58PM

Thanks everyone for your feedback.


I spoke with a Corvair restorer and others recently. The restore bought an underwater Rampside with an engine block full of water for $2,500 and replaced everything on it, putting $50k into it to have a perfect truck. Showing it to a body guy knowledgeable on unibodies, they said the structure is solid, and looks pretty good actually. Also, it is pretty easy to see nearly everything on the truck and bang it with a hammer of poke with a finger, and it seems only the wheel wells areas have bad rust which is fixable without complete restoration. I can't afford a complete restoration - they are unbelievably expensive - the route for that would be to buy one already fully restored, because its cheaper :-)


I've researched many other Rampside sales now. I've seen super rusty bodies (decomposing cabs even) claimed to be structurally sound starters for restoration too that don't even drive going for $7k. and see many that appear in worse or at least as good of shape as this one for ~$15k to ~18k, ones that appear to be decent drivers but seem to be much more rusty then mine based on pics alone. So, I think I overspent by around $2k to $5k, probably $5k since 61's may be inherently less valuable than 62s and 63s (and certainly 64s). This stinks a lot, but is not a complete loss. Basically, I am now being forced to spend more money and do more work than I wanted to keep the truck alive. The truck is my responsibility to care for now.


So, I plan to improve on this truck first by fixing the rust, and taking my time. The underside and wheels are all surface rust, that if I sand and paint with rust preventative now, will stay nice.
Is POR15 a good choice for rust preventative on the underbody? Do you guys recommend anything in particular?

I will hire a local body guy to properly repair the wheel wells.

I will fix all of the surface rust I can find, even destroying the paint job to do so to prevent further rusting.

I will replace the floor boards. One floor board looks very good with some surface rust that is easily sanded and painted. The other is just starting to hit the point at which replacing is smart.

So, I think it is a good truck that I overspent on, and will spend more on than I planned... :-/

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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: mhughes30 ()
Date: August 05, 2022 05:09PM

I have been super busy working on a delapidated 1940s house in my backyard for the past 7 months, and am not done, so this extra work and EXPENSE is not welcomed... :-)

And yes, the money I spent is a lot to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2022 05:10PM by mhughes30.

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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: mhughes30 ()
Date: August 05, 2022 05:56PM

My goal for the truck is a driver that I can maintain and keep alive. But, since rust is not maintainable as far as I know, I want to fix the rust. I have no interest in a perfectly restored truck because I am using the truck. But, I also don't want to drive it as is and let it slowly fall apart.

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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: August 05, 2022 07:13PM

I am not a fan of POR15, and prefer Bill Hirsch paints that are also designed to paint over rust. If it were mine, I would start by using a rust conversion product and then painting over that.

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Woodstock CT... Located on the Connecticut / Massachusetts border, approximately 6 miles from the center of Southbridge MA. About 45 minutes from Hartford CT. 1 1/2 hours West of Boston MA. Woodstock CT to Los Angeles CA 2,937.1 miles. 1 Mile as the crow flies to Big Bird's nest.

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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: Caraholic4life ()
Date: August 05, 2022 07:49PM

Back sometime around 1984, I painted the floors in one of my Corvairs with Zinc Chromate primer in an effort to curb rust.
During the following fifteen plus years I owned the car, it seemed to do the job well.
Since then, I am sure there are several alternatives that have become available that will do the job as well or better.

1962 95 F.C. Van
1964 Greenbrier Deluxe
1965 Monza Coupe
1965 Monza Convertible
Westminster, Maryland

MID ENG enthusiast &
prior Kelmark owner.

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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: August 05, 2022 10:27PM

A few months to a year ago, Tom (A.K.A. tomsnovass) posted a product that worked similar to Evaporust, but works BETTER!
The product absolutely REMOVED THE RUST, it did not "Convert" it.
If you simply want to convert it, use Ospho.

BUT, the product you should use is . . . . . . > > > RUST 911 < < <
I wish I could take credit for learning about this product, but it was Tom who introduced it.
He shared it, and the results a couple times in his, >>>Wild For A Wagon thread<<<.

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/05/2022 10:37PM by American Mel.

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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: August 06, 2022 06:18AM

As Mel mentioned, if you want to get rid of rust Rust 911 will remove it. Depending on where the rust is, it might require a “contraption” to collect the liquid. I ended up with a kiddie swimming pool as one of my collectors.

In the link above that Mel posted, when I did my floors, I thought that they were “solid” but realized that there were pinhole rust spots and the next morning the liquid leaked out every where. Hence the kiddie pool use.

If using rust 911, I recommend removing the vast majority that is feasible then use it. It will allow the solution to last much longer.

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
62' Wagon rebuild MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block (Sold)
86' BMW 325es
67' UltraVan 211 "Violet"
NFCC, UMCC
Grand Island, NY

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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: wittsend ()
Date: August 06, 2022 04:05PM

Up front I want to clarify that this is not "THE" way to deal with rust but it is "A" way and depending upon your expectations and available funds MIGHT be applicable.

I have a Love/Hate relationship with POR 15. On my Studebaker Daytona (Body on Frame car) the front floors were significantly rusted. That said I used POR 15 and their mesh (a fine fiberglass) on both sides of the floorboard you see in the left (close up) image. The results in the right image (hole circled in red) are the same today as when I did this 10 years ago. So, in my case, it worked for me. It did and continues to do the job I expected of it. I wouldn't drop an anvil on the floor but it has been more than sufficient for the weight of a passengers feet and legs.

On my Volvo 544 one of the rear floors was severely rusted. I cut that back to the perimeter where the metal was doubled over at the seam. I then cut a piece of metal to fit over the entire perimeter seam, drilled holes, sealed it with silicone and pop rivetted it in place. That I would have dropped an anvil on with no concerns. In this case and the one above the repairs stood the test of time though they likely would be frowned upon as "not proper." To me the difference is some hack these types of repairs in 30 minutes with marginal results and I took my time to maximize the integrity and durability. Cars have been assembled with adhesives that would have welders shaking their heads and planes have been rivetted for decades. Alternatives applied properly, though different, are not necessarily bad.

What you need to do is determine if the structural integrity is compromised to a level that you deem dangerous. That said some will be greatly bothered by a 1" to 2" rust hole in a floor board and yet the factory punched numerous holes in the floor filled with the structural integrity of a rubber plug and that doesn't seem to be an issue. In the end YOU need to decide what is applicable to YOU.

I'm not speaking against proper replacement panels and welding them in. Some people have the time, budget and depending on the rest of the build the motivation to do so. But for others time and money are an issue and the totality of the build might not justify the investment. In that scenario alternatives that suit the owners wallet and expectations become an option.

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***'61 Lakewood, a "Freebie" in hibernation for 27 years - In the process of applying CPR.***

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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: tony66 ()
Date: August 07, 2022 05:53PM

For rust 911, (and others) watch this video. [www.youtube.com]


For POR 15, don't waste your time. Any quality epoxy primer should work once you get the metal clean. Any paint that seals the metal will prevent rust. It's not rocket science and no need to try a magic potion to stop the rust. Get rid of the rust by cutting out the "rot" and wash off / remove the surface rust. seal the metal and joints and you should be good.

For areas that I don't particularly care what the final finish looks like, I have no problem brushing on rustoleum's rusty metal primer. It is alkyd based, takes a little while longer to dry, but gives good mil thickness and seems to work well. It's not a base for "body color", but for floors, chassis, wheel wells... it is a very cost effective for a driver.

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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: wittsend ()
Date: August 07, 2022 10:02PM

The video is 22+ minutes long. The guy doesn't address Rust 911 until 15:15. This link goes to that point in the video. Rust 911 Begins In the video he talks about how they spray Rust 911 for days (rest period) then spray it again etc.. He then states that the chassis can be "derusted" in about a months time.

The process has the car elevated at least 5 feet in the air (most people don't have that ability) and a V-shaped wooden, tarp covered structure under the whole car and multiple spray apparatus to recycle/respray the Rust 911 (most people probably can't dedicate a months floor space for that). That structure and spray apparatus alone must cost many hundreds of dollars and take many hours to build. I just don't see where there is any advantage of Rust 911 over any of the other similar rust removal products (a month of repeated spraying?). The original posted stated that time and money were issues.

I have sandblasted areas where warpage is irrelevant (as in the floor board I posted above). That same area was alkaline washed and treated to phosphoric acid before the application of POR-15. This easily occurred in a 36 hour time span. Other times I have used Muriatic Acid and phosphoric acid as was demonstrated in the first 15 minutes of the video.

In conclusion I don't see where Rust 911 has any advantage over any other rust removal product. I'm not saying it doesn't work but I don't see it working BETTER. I have also gotten very satisfactory results with POR-15 and as such don't see it as a "waste of time." I have used it for over 20 years and see it stand the test of time. I don't know what a quart of epoxy primer cost but it has to be in the ballpark of POR-15.

I will agree that the selling point of POR-15 (Paint Over Rust) is misleading. So, yes, if some guy slides a hand held wire brush over rust for 30 second, wipes off the rust with a rag and applies the POR-15 the results will be marginal. My apology if I sound defensive but I've gotten very satisfactory results with POR-15 in preventing rust reoccurrence and with the mesh getting enough structural integrity back in the metal - where applicable.

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***'61 Lakewood, a "Freebie" in hibernation for 27 years - In the process of applying CPR.***

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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: August 08, 2022 12:06AM

I say, use what makes YOU comfortable, and Happy. smiling bouncing smiley
Buuuuuuut, there are many ways that a person could achieve the same objective as what is shown in the video, without having a lift, and constructing the V-shaped platform that was used to direct the liquid back to the pump station.
(if interested, I could walk you through it in a PM.)
As for the project taking a month, THAT car was sitting in an open, and dirt-floored garage for like 40 years, it was probably worse than many of the Corvairs owned by people reading this thread. (and not as bad as others. eye popping smiley )
And regarding time?
HA!
Many of us have projects that have been sitting in a corner of the garage for YEARS!
What cost is it to let it continue sitting for a few more weeks while it is derusting, with no manual labor involved, other than keeping the fluid topped-off, and the pumps running?
Let's see, . . . . . . . .
HIGH QUALITY/LOW COST and made for industrial applications.
ULTRA-CONCENTRATED--> 1-gallon makes 16-gallons of powerful chemical. Saves money on outrageously high shipping costs.
REUSE over and over till solution turns black
NEUTRAL pH, comparable to drinking water.
NON-HAZARDOUS, no special shipping requirements.
NON-TOXIC, safe to use
SAFE on most common paints, plastics and rubbers.
Effectively removes oxides from steel, cast iron and other various steels and irons.
Brightens copper, brass and similar alloys.
STABLE Crystal clear and does not turn yellow or has powder on the bottom of your container.
SUPER EASY MIXING with your own drinking water.
EASILY RINSES off with water to leave surface ready-to-paint.
MUST ADD WATER to activate the Concentrate.
IMMERSION AND CONTINUOUS SPRAY application only. NOT designed for hand spray applications
Great for automobile parts, wrenches, chains, gas tanks, and more.

Sounds like a WINNER to me!

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: August 08, 2022 08:42AM

I'm with Mel. If Rust 911 is the same thing as Evaporust and I'm pretty sure it is then it does a spectacular job. It remove none of the good metal like all the acid based solutions or grinding does and things cleaned with it resist rust for a while. It also doesn't damage rubber or even most paints. You can pour it on your garden when done.
The only gripe I have about it is it does bad things to platings so they turn black and crusty. It does soften some paints but not most.
I agree that building a pumping and collecting system is a pain.
I'm a fan of electrolysis too in some situations.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 136 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: Corvair Rampside Purchase and Undisclosed Rust
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: August 08, 2022 10:07AM

I can state that Ospho here on the east coast is only good for getting the next layer of paint to stick to slightly rusty surfaces. Most times an almost clean surface treated with Ospho will rust more during the wash off with water part of the directions! I quit using it in the body shop. Epoxy primer directly applied much better on solid cleaned metal for us.

Ospho is not in the same league of products as the others discussed. Made for a different application.

I too have used gallons of Miracle Paint from Bill Hirsch. No complaints. Not an end all product, but does what it says it will.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

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