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Water-Methanol Injection - beyond progressive
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: July 30, 2022 05:12PM

Here is how my water-methanol injection has gone from a Single Stage set up to beyond progressive.

The first installation of water-methanol injection (WMI) was a single stage system with pressure switch to turn the 200psi pump on. The turn on setting was adjusted by seat of the pants testing without causing bog or bucking at higher boost levels. Engine was getting 12-14psi boost with 2-bbl downdraft.

The modifications/improvements have continued since then with notable boost/performance gains due to programmable timing and installing the Mikuni HSR45 slide carb.
This set-up was getting over 15-16psi pretty easily with methanol "on" at 8psi.

Beyond Progressive:
It was time to plan out the new WMI system. Two stage was possible as well as progressive using controllers from AEM/Snow Performance/DevilsOwn/etc.. The decision became easier when i found a 3D programmable WMI controller (primarily designed as Boost Controller).

The CORTEX EBC by SIRHC Labs can be set up to control water-methanol flow based on RPM and Boost with a fully programmable table. In addition to WMI control, the EBC has a data logging feature that is very flexible but specifically allows it to input the 0-5V signal from your AFR gauge. This is vairy powerful when tuning exactly how much methanol fluid to spray.

The 200psi pump was retained and the original relay was replaced by a diode protected relay to energize the pump and solenoid driver. Finally a pair of high speed PWM controlled solenoids control flow at the injector. There is a blue light on the dash that urns on with pump=on and a green LED that pulses along with PWM duty cycle... very colorful!



The high speed solenoids are designed to operate much like fuel injectors but with higher fluid pressure and built to withstand methanol. The Rapid Acting Control Element (RACE) valves are from USRT

These are the fittings and RACE valves ready to be installed. The hose connections are compression fittings that seal better than push-to-connect. No leaks!!!



Using the Data Log function has allowed me to dial in AFR by precisely controlling the duty cycle of the RACE valves. Here is a 3D duty cycle graph that I generated based on the EBC control table. The pump turns on 100% for any PWM value.



This is a sample from the data log during a test run.



Tuning continues but at this time the engine is spooling quicker, hitting 16-17psi with ease and feels like it has more power at all boost levels. Methanol injection is starting at 3psi but duty cycle is less than 90% throughout the boost curve. The target for AFR is low/mid 12 which is already achieved at low boost levels. The Safeguard is controlling any knock if i go too far on the lean side of 12.5 AFR

Ken
'62 Spyder
Florida





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2022 06:34PM by 1966-Corsa-GT-180.

Re: Water-Methanol Injection - beyond progressive
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: July 30, 2022 06:29PM

This is so cool! its light years ahead of my old Aquamist 1s system- the only control that had was the boost level it was "on" at. Ramping the juice with rpm and pressure in a fuel injection like manner really opens up tuning possibities!!
Thanks for posting!

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car
Test Start#2 [www.youtube.com]



Re: Water-Methanol Injection - beyond progressive
Date: July 30, 2022 06:47PM

KEN - you Rock! - Roll! - Boost! - and FLY!

Vairy interesting TurboBoost stuff. Thank you!

What "hose" are you using between the RACE components?

By "diode protected" you mean this:



Correct? (Diode blocker internal between 85 and 86 on standard 30/40 amp cube relay.

Keep it on Boost!


Dan Davis ~ Pierce County, WA ~ CCF admin ~
CORSA +Corvairs NW + North Cascades Corvairs + Corvanatics
1966 Corsa Turbo coupe ~ ~ 1966 Corsa 140 Coupe ~ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 Convertible Sierra Tan/Fawn ~ 1964 Monza Spyder Convertible ~ 1960 Monza Ermine White/Red PG ++ ~ 1965 Monza 140/4 CoupeEvening Orchid w/ ivory/black interior ~ 1962 Monza Wagon 102/4 ~ 1963 Rampside/Scamper ~ 1963 Red/Greenbrier ~ 1969 Ultra Van #468

Re: Water-Methanol Injection - beyond progressive
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: July 30, 2022 07:38PM

Thanks for the encouragement and tuning tips mr Kevin. thumbs up

Dan- Yes, the relay is the 2317 you noted. Part # Hella 933791091

Currently using the common methanol system hose, 1/4” nylon. The optimum for precision flow control is 3/16” hose between RACE valves and injectors but I didn’t have the correct pieces at show time. Length of hose between RACE valve and injector is only 8-10”

After this WMI is dialed in the next step is to get a 3-port boost control solenoid to tie in boost management using the EBC to replace manual boost control

Re: Water-Methanol Injection - beyond progressive
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: July 30, 2022 10:34PM

I like what you’ve done here.The aquamist setup I had for EFI could run the pump off of the duty cycle of an injector, pretty simple setup. I currently have a Snow Performance setup, and will go to programmable somewhere down the road. And I have to get the car on the road before I do’s that, too many things in the way right now.

Great work!

Re: Water-Methanol Injection - beyond progressive
Posted by: AlecCarlson ()
Date: July 31, 2022 03:27AM

Ken,

That's very cool ! I have the Snow's Progressive injection system installed on my '66 but the one thing I miss is some way to tie my AFR into the system. Looks like you've solved that problem. Nice engineering there !

Alec
Dahlonega, GA
1965 Corsa Convertible Turbo 4-Speed
Restoration "In Progress"

Re: Water-Methanol Injection - beyond progressive
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: July 31, 2022 06:05AM

Excellent as usual sir! smileys with beer

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
62' Wagon rebuild MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block (Sold)
86' BMW 325es
67' UltraVan 211 "Violet"
NFCC, UMCC
Grand Island, NY

Re: Water-Methanol Injection - beyond progressive
Date: August 06, 2022 08:18AM

NOW we’re getting somewhere!

Nice work thumbs up

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You're unique, just like everyone else...

Johnny B
Central WI

Wife's '68, 3.0L, twin-screw compressor and fuel injected in the works...

Project Pressurized Pancake





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/06/2022 08:19AM by PressurizedPancake.

Re: Water-Methanol Injection - beyond progressive
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: August 10, 2022 05:31PM

Update: WMI Tuning for flat AFR curve

Ran a few more tests and landed on this WMI tuning result. Seat of the pants evaluation is "zippy" throttle response, more power at the lower-middle boost range, keeps pulling strong until wastegate kicks off and helps prevent any mishaps. Safeguard LEDs just tickle on occasion but i think that's what we want.

AFR is held pretty much flat in the 10.9-12.0 range during boost runs. Pretty darn good results for a side draft carb setup IMHO.
WMI starts at 2psi with 15% duty cycle and starts to kick up at 7psi following the blue curve to a max duty cycle of 39% at 16.5-17.0 psi boost. This is FUN! smiling bouncing smiley

The EBC Controller has data logging functions and this Chart is based on 15-20 minutes driving.


This WMI tune will likely remain through the hot/humid summer days and into fall when we start getting cooler FL weather like mid 70's cool smiley

If anyone decides to try a 3D programmable WMI system, please feel free to send me a PM so I can share additional details on the set up using USRT Race valves.

Thanks for the kind words of encouragement.

Ken
'62 Spyder
Florida





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/10/2022 05:32PM by kmart356.

Re: Water-Methanol Injection - beyond progressive
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: August 11, 2022 07:46AM

????

Re: Water-Methanol Injection - beyond progressive
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: August 24, 2022 05:02PM

Worked with the graphs of the data logs and this one demonstrates the results more clearly. The horizontal axis is Boost (psi) and the vertical axis is scaled 0-40.

The orange points are AFR readings and the blue points show the methanol injection duty cycle which starts spraying 15% at 3psi and follows the curve up to 39% at 15psi and up. AFR stays pretty steady in the target range. The only tweak I plan to make is to start spraying at 2psi.




Ken
'62 Spyder
Florida


Re: Water-Methanol Injection - beyond progressive
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: August 24, 2022 05:52PM

????

Re: Water-Methanol Injection - beyond progressive
Posted by: toms73novass ()
Date: August 24, 2022 06:03PM

Wow, very nice! I need to focus on one project! I have ADHD of corvair builds, need to finish before working on others.

-Tom


63' Monza Spyder Convertable (in process) MY Build Thread
62' Wagon rebuild MY Build Thread
65' Monza MY Build Thread
73' NovaSS 454 Big block (Sold)
86' BMW 325es
67' UltraVan 211 "Violet"
NFCC, UMCC
Grand Island, NY

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