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Lifters
Posted by: boyd ()
Date: June 20, 2022 12:53PM

Hi all, it has been a year or so sense I was here with lifter problems in my buggy (Corvair).
Now after driving only2 miles last year and it sitting, I got my knees working again and decided to go out for a drive. But, the lifters are clacking....again. This time I removed the valve cover and adjusted the lifters on the passenger side of the engine.
All sounds good then ....slowly, the clatter of one rocker. #1 intake. Backed it off and reset it, sounds great, then .... back it comes. so I set it from where it was (without going back). Sounds great for about 20 seconds...then it comes back. give it another 1/2 turn. Sound great, then in 20-30 seconds, it comes back.

So, obviously the lifter is leaking down.

This engine was rebuilt maybe 30 miles ago but, maybe 12 years ago! LOL.
It does this to me every year and I can't drive it like that. It had a new cam and new lifters at the time.

So, I guess I got a defective lifter ot, it just didn't like sitting that long!

So, now that I can drive it again, I can't! LOL

If I remember right, I can
drain the oil
with the valve cover off (already off)
remove the rocker arm for that cylinder
remove the "tubes holder" bracket
Remove that one tube
fish that lifter out ?????????

Replace it
New tube orings
replace the tube
replace the "tube holder"
replace the rocker
Adjust

Or, do I have my head up my xxx? LOL

I'm pretty sure the lifter was a "Sealed Power" brand lifter (with the flat disk).
I know you are supposed to replace the cam with the lifters, but that is not going to happen. This engine will get maybe 50 miles a year on it (at most) and I'm 69, so, I think this repair will last long enough.

Sound right? or any suggestions?

Boyd

Re: Lifters
Posted by: boyd ()
Date: June 20, 2022 01:08PM

Peek


Yes, all Corvair. No VW anywhere.
Boyd



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2022 01:09PM by boyd.

Re: Lifters
Posted by: American Mel ()
Date: June 20, 2022 01:19PM

Sometimes Corvair lifters that have sat quite a while, need to just be run for a longer, before they start pumping up.
I think you need to let it warm up real good, and see if it comes around, before just replacing it right away.
Others will chime in I am sure, with their thoughts.

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WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.

Re: Lifters
Posted by: boyd ()
Date: June 20, 2022 01:46PM

I've done that first. and second.

It will not stop clattering even if I take it for a drive.

there must be something wrong with that lifter. The others are fine.

Re: Lifters
Posted by: dryenko ()
Date: June 20, 2022 02:07PM

At least three other possibilities beyond a bad lifter.
A sticking valve.
A valve spring has gone "soft" from sitting compressed for a long time.
A cam lobe that has a bump on the heel or is worn.
I had the bump on heel problem on a new Schneider 260 cam is a newly remanufactured 140, and had to redo the whole concours level engine.
And no help from the Corviar vendor who provided the cam.
"We have never heard of that before"
So, Quality verification has gone to the dogs.
Hope you can get it going.

Bob C aka Dryenko
Dobson, NC 27017

Re: Lifters
Posted by: boyd ()
Date: June 20, 2022 02:21PM

One thing is, when the lifter is adjusted, it runs for a few second (around 20 or so), then it starts chattering again.

If I undo it (while running) all the way open chattering a lot, I can adjust it again till it stops chattering. Then it runs for around 20 seconds then chatters. I adjust it again (from that point) and it stops. Again, for about 20 seconds.

I can keep doing this till there is no adjustment left in the lifter. Then I stop and back it off and it will start all over again.

I doubt a weak spring on the valve would act that way. It acts like a classice bad lifter.

Now, I have no idea about a "dimple" in the cam. That one is a new one on me. But I know I didn't use a Schneider, for what that is worth.

Re: Lifters
Posted by: rfw66 ()
Date: June 20, 2022 02:30PM

Before you go to all the trouble to change one lifter I would simply use a new rocker nut! Any of them can loose their self locking ability. I would give that a try because it is the easiest to do. Hopefully one rocker nut will be your fix.

Re: Lifters
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: June 20, 2022 02:35PM

At this point you seem to have covered everything else...replace the lifter.

Note: After it stops clicking how much more do you tighten the nut?

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2022 02:37PM by MattNall.

Re: Lifters
Posted by: boyd ()
Date: June 20, 2022 05:03PM

rfw66 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Before you go to all the trouble to change one lifter I would simply use a new rocker nut! Any of them can loose their self locking ability. I would give that a try because it is the easiest to do. Hopefully one rocker nut will be your fix.

I have left the socket on the extension on the ratchet wrench during that time after is quiets down. And still the clacking comes. which (to me) means the nut is not backing off.


MattNall
Also, after tightening up the rocker during adjustment, as soon as the clacking stops, I slowly add another 1/2 turn (about) and wait. AND, the clacking comes back.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2022 05:04PM by boyd.

Re: Lifters
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: June 20, 2022 05:03PM

I would let the motor cool and adjust the lifter per manual, then crank it and let it idle for 30 minutes, then gradually blip the throttle and hold it at a higher Idle . It should come to life, I would put fresh oil in it too
Does anyone think GM adjusted valves running at the end of the assembly line ?

1964 Bill Thomas Monza Replica Racer
1964 Spyder Street Car
1998 Honda Prelude Dirt track car

Mike Levine

Re: Lifters
Posted by: boyd ()
Date: June 20, 2022 05:09PM

v8vair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would let the motor cool and adjust the lifter per manual, then crank it and let it idle for 30 minutes, then gradually blip the throttle and hold it at a higher Idle . It should come to life, I would put fresh oil in it too
> Does anyone think GM adjusted valves running at the end of the assembly line ?

Well, I have let it idle for a long time, but not 30 minutes.
I have even run it for a mile or so.

I have brand new oil in it right now (yes, it is the proper oil, I know that one).

I just think this one lifter is a "problem child". It has been from the beginning. Never has held adjustment very long. But it used to hold adjustment as long as the engine was warm. let it cool off, and you had to readjust it again. Now, it won't hold at all for more then a few seconds.

Re: Lifters
Posted by: Brizo ()
Date: June 20, 2022 06:12PM

Boyd, Try another lifter, but look closely at the bottom of the old lifter for any abnormal wear or evidence that it hasent been rotating. If the new lifter is no quieter, and the old lifter shows a lot more then 30 miles worth of wear, you may have a worn / defective cam lobe shape that is preventing that lifter from pumping up during the "closed time".

Another remote possibility (but I've seen two)is a worn lifter bore.

Dan Brizendine, Circle City Corvairs
'64 8 door Greenbrier, +.060, stroked 1/4", 186 ci.140 PG. "In beautiful Wanamaker Indiana...with one stop light and 5 pizza shops"

Re: Lifters
Posted by: vairmech ()
Date: June 20, 2022 06:39PM

I think you are just trying to rush it to much. 10 minute and a couple of miles is not enough! 20 - 30 minutes of fast idling or at least 5 miles of driving.

When you are done with your adjustment just walk away and go do something else, look at the clock and DON'T get impatient!

I haven't seen a loose locking nut back off that quick, 50 miles? Yes.

Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586

Vairmech@aol.com

Re: Lifters
Posted by: DOUG WARD ()
Date: June 20, 2022 09:12PM

Hi Boyd, I had similar problems with more than one engine. The best results I was able to achieve was to change the oil but add 2 quarts of Marvel Mystery oil with 2 1/2 qts of regular oil. . Yup =- 2 qts. Run the car with gusto for at least 50 miles. That stuff really cleans the gummy from the internal parts. I wouldn't waste your money on expensive synthetic oil until you have this problem licked.

Doug Ward
Orange, Calif.
65 Corsa 180, 64 Monza convertible, 61 Lakewood, 61 Monza


Re: Lifters
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: June 21, 2022 06:05AM

Sometimes I have to drive around for 20 minutes to get a pesky lifter to quiet down. Driving around at varying speeds seems to work better than running it stationary for some reason.
I had one a few weeks ago that wouldn't quiet down and did as you describe when adjusted running. The car had not been run much over the last 20 years. I didn't have time for a Rislone treatment since it wasn't my car so I changed the lifter. I had a few left over from buying 16.
The noise was noticeable and I didn't want him driving around telling people that I had worked on it. Oh so vain...

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



Re: Lifters
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: June 21, 2022 08:29AM

SeaFoam fixed mine in 5 minutes after the engine had been sleeping for 5 or 6 years.

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Re: Lifters
Posted by: solo2r ()
Date: June 21, 2022 10:11PM

I started a brand new engine 2 weeks ago. It was new 35 years ago! Before starting,and turning over by hand, I Put on adjusting valve covers and adjusted valves one cylinder at a time. Then I prelubed oil system with a modified distributor. Before all this I re-freshed the pair of NOS carburetors and changed the fuel tank and sender , installed an electric fuel pump. Started up fine and did a final valve adjust after about 20 minutes. Noticed only some of the rockers were getting oil. I determined the lifters were faulty even though they adjusted fine. I changed the lifters yesterday ,[with The Source Deep Dimple ] and adjusting same procedure, started and almost immediately had oil at rockers!
1962 Monza 102 Cvt 4 spd factory air!

Re: Lifters
Posted by: Frank DuVal ()
Date: June 22, 2022 10:16AM

I would adjust it to the first quiet spot, add 3/4 of a turn put the cover back on and drive it for the rest of the year! That 3/4 turn is still within the lifter's range. Now, if it misses continuously, not just the miss for a few seconds and recovers) then back off slightly.


Quote
Boyd
This engine will get maybe 50 miles a year on it (at most) and I'm 69, so, I think this repair will last long enough.

The engine will not be damaged with such limited driving per year.

Back in the day I adjusted these as solids (adjust the nut down until there was missing and back off to slightest tapping) and they drove fine. This was on engines of poor driver quality, just get me to and from work style, I got no money, etc.

Frank DuVal

Fredericksburg, VA

Re: Lifters
Posted by: boyd ()
Date: June 22, 2022 09:45PM

Frank DuVal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would adjust it to the first quiet spot, add 3/4 of a turn put the cover back on and drive it for the rest of the year! That 3/4 turn is still within the lifter's range. Now, if it misses continuously, not just the miss for a few seconds and recovers) then back off slightly.
>
>
>
Quote
Boyd
> This engine will get maybe 50 miles a year on it (at most) and I'm 69, so, I think this repair will last long enough.
>
>
> The engine will not be damaged with such limited driving per year.
>
> Back in the day I adjusted these as solids (adjust the nut down until there was missing and back off to slightest tapping) and they drove fine. This was on engines of poor driver quality, just get me to and from work style, I got no money, etc.

IF, I did that, I would get to the point that I added 3/4 tun and put the valve covers back on. Then when I started it up again, within 2 minitues it would be clacking again. When I drive it for 3 to 4 miles (like I tried yesterday, when I pulled into the drveway, It sounded terrable with all the clacking.

The problem is, that lifter will not stay pumped up. It leaks back down no matter what I do.

Boyd

Re: Lifters
Posted by: boyd ()
Date: June 22, 2022 09:47PM

I have forgot, how do you adjust lifters for the first time (cold) to get the engine started so I can adjust them running and hot?

I forgot.

It's on cylinder #1, so I assume I need to get #1 to top dead center (which is easy).
Then???????

Boyd

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