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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: red monza ()
Date: May 15, 2022 11:18AM

The best way to lose $20,000 dollars on a 1968 Corvette, is put a generic 350 in it to replace a L79 327-350HP matching number engine. Part of the Vin is stamped on the front boss of my engine and for 50 years this coming July, has been the correct engine. When I rebuilt it in 1984, Chevy did not have the orig cam or carb. It has a 69 350/350hp carb from Chevy and a L82? cam other than that, it is original, double hump heads and all. These L-79's are bringing what the 390hp 427's are bringing.

The 64 Corvair conv I bought a year ago has an early model 102hp engine in it and a 3 speed trans. I thought about selling it as is as the engine does not smoke and the trans shifts nicely. I do have a 4 speed being built and I am building a 64 110 engine to go in it. I hope to have it ready to go by our show in Oct in Maggie Valley. I would bet the 110/4 speed will increase its value. But on the other hand, a new corvair buyer probably would not care as long as it runs and stops well.

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: joelsplace ()
Date: May 15, 2022 11:19AM

Throttle shafts are cheap for Corvairs. I almost always replace them when rebuilding carburetors.

Joel
Northlake, TX
5 Ultravans, 135 Corvairs and counting...

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: May 15, 2022 01:09PM

Good point, Red Monza.

Matching numbers and stock performance are much more valuable in other car hobbies. Most Corvairs seem to be valuable, mechanically anyway, for what upgrades and features they have, not particularly whether those were originally part of the car.

But on the other hand, paint and windows and (on convertibles) ragtop condition/style, and wheels, all contribute to how valued the car is as a looker.

Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/15/2022 01:12PM by playerpage.

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: scottymac ()
Date: May 15, 2022 09:31PM

My '66 Monza was bought from a junkyard, and rebuilt using E-3 pay in the late Seventies ($450 a month?) and the side pay I made working in the base auto hobby shop. At the time my engine was assembled with a '65 110hp case and 140hp heads.
Forty years later, I have a little more disposable income, (though much less after the divorce) so I want the next build to reflect a genuine 140hp engine. I'd have probably paid a grand for a RZ block, but I can be very particular about this new build, and since Arizona Dave didn't turn up that RZ block at the Seaman/Dye parts auction, time to go ahead with plan B. I realize I'm at least 20-30 years behind most of you guys in your restorations, but you make your choices in life and then live with them best you can. Don't intend to snooker anyone, or present the car as anything more than what you see. Like many of you, building the Corvair I would have bought new, had I the opportunity.

Scott
Danville, In.
'65 Corsa coupe basket case
'66 Monza coupe


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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: 110PG ()
Date: May 16, 2022 03:52PM

OK Ill be weird. I like numbers appropriate items. Its fun but I suppose silly.I like looking under the deck and seeing the correct build date in relation to the production number but don't really care. I suppose the only time it would matter is if there were two for sale at the same time in similar condition and I needed a deciding reason to pick one. Cobbled engine compartments and "trinkets" are more of a turn off

Joe
Western WI
63 Fairlane 500 (SC Clone project)
66 Corsa Turbo

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: junkman ()
Date: May 16, 2022 05:59PM

I seriously don't believe that many people even have a clue as to how many of the parts that make up any car have a date code on them. Unless you were to study a lot of all original unmolested cars from the past, it would be almost impossible to gain that knowledge today. Corvairs were never considered collectible cars until all the other "collectible" car supply was exhausted, and the prices were in the stratosphere. In the 1980s Corvaurs were considered expendable inexpensive cars, and I saw many original low mile rust-free cars transfer ownership for the new owner to use them as their winter car in the rust belt of New England.
Enjoy your cars for what they are, and don't get excited about trying to make them all original as-built 60 years ago. If our government has its way, it will be extremely expensive to own an internal combustion car in the near future. I believe in driving my cars as transportation and enjoyment, not an artifact that sits in a climate-controlled garage, gathering dust.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Woodstock CT... Located on the Connecticut / Massachusetts border, approximately 6 miles from the center of Southbridge MA. About 45 minutes from Hartford CT. 1 1/2 hours West of Boston MA. Woodstock CT to Los Angeles CA 2,937.1 miles. 1 Mile as the crow flies to Big Bird's nest.

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: May 17, 2022 08:27AM

The idea and interest of a correctly date coded engine in a Corvair is changing.

30 years ago, really nobody cared and things were swapped without giving a second (or first) thought.

These days, that makes a Corvair with original engine relatively rare, and to some more desirable, depending on the model.

The more some of us get into cars that other owners have worked on, the more we appreciate ones that have not been modified (yet). as there is less "undoing" to do to make the thing right.

If I found a 66 turbo convertible with original engine (which I did), it would be worth more to me than one with a replacement engine. On a 65 500 PG I would not care.

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: Lane66m ()
Date: May 17, 2022 09:04AM

As I stated 2 or more model years, have the last code letters being the same.

In the case of the turbo, how do you know the RL engine installed is the one the factory put in. If date codes are within car build date by a few days, there is no way. No VIN on turbo cases to prove an original engine is installed. Engines were pull for numerous reasons over the past 50 years with no docume station the one pulled was reinstalled. So it is a wish and an hope that it is original engine, if it is not a VIN coded engine case..

So your 66 RL engine could be from a 65 or 66 turbo car built within a few month/day of yours. Year it was made is not in engine code. This same can be said for other 65 & 66 engine codes and cars they or in. Easier to know what is not a problem original engine for a Vair by the engine code.

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: Darrin ()
Date: May 17, 2022 09:38AM

The people who are paying much bigger money for Corvairs now are not old school Corvair folks, they are GM or Chevy collectors coming from other obsessions to pick up a Corvair. You can bet that the numbers matching thing will have an effect on their price for an otherwise "original" car.

The fact that engine dates are considered to be in a range for a particular car is complicating, but makes it easier to find one in the correct range if yours has been changed.

But, if you have the original owners brochure with the metal plate in it, it should have the engine code noted so you can prove that they match.

Everyone should care about this...or not...as they see fit, but the NEW market seems to favor correct codes.

Darrin Hartzler
Bethesda, MD/Catlett, VA

Northern Virginia Corvairs & Group Corvair

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: JerryM ()
Date: May 17, 2022 10:43AM

IMO correct Engine Codes/ “Numbers Matching” have completely lost relevance for the car hobby. Anytime someone uses the phrase Numbers Matching I get suspicious. A verifiable “survivor” with provenance would have more value for collectors of certain marques and I believe the Corvair will get there someday. I think it’s important to preserve the Corvair survivors that do exist for restorers to be able to study – the Corvair is an historically significant car.

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: wittsend ()
Date: May 17, 2022 10:55AM

I find it interesting that at a car show the owner is far more likely to TELL someone the car is matching numbers than for the observer to ASK. To me that says something right there. I think matching numbers is fine by happenstance. As a pursuit one better be wealthy and diligent and not easily disappointed when after spending thousands to acquire matching numbers finds someone (by happenstance - inheritance etc.) has a car more original than theirs.

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: flat_six ()
Date: May 17, 2022 11:26AM

Lane66m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> As I stated 2 or more model years, have the last code letters being the same.
>
> In the case of the turbo, how do you know the RL engine installed is the one the factory put in. If date codes are within car build date by a few days, there is no way. No VIN on turbo cases to prove an original engine is installed. Engines were pull for numerous reasons over the past 50 years with no docume station the one pulled was reinstalled. So it is a wish and an hope that it is original engine, if it is not a VIN coded engine case..
>
> So your 66 RL engine could be from a 65 or 66 turbo car built within a few month/day of yours. Year it was made is not in engine code. This same can be said for other 65 & 66 engine codes and cars they or in. Easier to know what is not a problem original engine for a Vair by the engine code.

I know the history of the car back to when it was new. Engine is original.

In my experience, when an engine is swapped, the date code is nowhere near the 2 week prior window that is generally accepted for original engines.

Yes, it is possible that an engine was swapped in the past and by chance the date code is within that 2-3 weeks before the body build date. But the probability is small. Plus, if that were true and I was buying that car, I'd accept that as the original engine, even if it isn't, because the date aligns.

Oh, by the way, my engine could not be an April engine from 1965 anyway - the 66 heads use the larger shroud bolts. The block could be from a 65 tho...

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: May 17, 2022 12:15PM

When I'm at car shows and somebody remarks on my engine code (rare, but Camaro guys seem most interested), I tell them the "RX" was for "factory extreme option select." They don't know -- I'm usually the only Corvair there anyway. smiling smiley

Eric C. Player
Fargo, North Dakota
MEMBER: CORSA National, Central Coast CORSA, South Coast CORSA, Vintage CORSA, Sfba CORSA, and Great Plains Corvair Club.
THEN: 1965 Monza 110, Canary Yellow - 1965 Corsa 180 Turbo, Red - 1966 Monza 110, Purple - 1967 Monza 140, Red - 1966 500 110, Black; nicknamed "Shadow" - 1965 Monza 110, Camaro Yellow; nicknamed "Silver"
NOW: 1966 Corsa 180 Turbo, Blue; nicknamed "Bluvair"
---------------------------------------
"He cautioned me not to take notes. It would not have helped if I had, as he would start a paragraph with, 'It is therefore obvious. . .'
and go on from there to matters which may have been obvious to him and God but to no one else."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, character of Daniel B. Davis, 'The Door Into Summer.'

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: Timothy Shortle ()
Date: May 17, 2022 01:08PM

I own 69 Monza Convertible #5044 that was built the 3rd week of April. Mark Ellis
(R I P) told me it was the ONLY 69 in the registry that had a GM factory replacement engine. I wonder what that fact does for the value? Anyone got engine #5044 laying around? Or an RZ engine? RR?

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: schuls1 ()
Date: May 18, 2022 08:48AM

Timothy Shortle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I own 69 Monza Convertible #5044 that was built the 3rd week of April. Mark Ellis
> (R I P) told me it was the ONLY 69 in the registry that had a GM factory replacement engine. I wonder what that fact does for the value? Anyone got engine #5044 laying around? Or an RZ engine? RR?


Wow,....pretty cool Timothy!! I don't have any of those other engines laying around,wish I did,... Only a 12/07RB,$$..ggg

Stan,
SW Missouri

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: irfgt ()
Date: May 19, 2022 06:30AM

Every Corvair show I take my 65 Corsa Turbo to people always look at my block numbers and build plate to see if it really is a Evening Orchid Turbo which it is. My Heads were replaced under warranty years ago with 1966 up heads but the block is absolutely the one that came in the car. I don't know why the curiosity about the numbers matching since they probably aren't buying and I sure am not selling.

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: playerpage ()
Date: May 19, 2022 09:47AM

Are they Corvair guys or generic car guys? What I'm wondering is what effect this phenomenon has for a Corvair, and its fan base.

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Re: The Effect of Matching Engine Codes on Corvair Resale Value
Posted by: Vern in Bend ()
Date: May 20, 2022 11:15AM

So how does the true numbers-matching purist settle for a 'date range' plus engine code suffix instead of the actual original engine code? The original engine code for my '67 Monza is right there on the protect-o-plate.

Yes, I know the warranty booklets are not usually available, and I AM being facetious, but it seems that a true originality perfectionist who hangs his tools up in little outlines might lose sleep knowing that the real actual code may be lurking someplace in someone's pile of stuff.

Regards, Vern

Bend, Oregon

'64 Corvan, daily driver - 48 years
'64 Rampside, personal driver - 30 years - SOLD 9/21
'67 Monza Cpe, original owner - 33k miles
'80 Vanagon stalled project - 2.8 Corvair & T5 5-speed
'81 Vanagon high-top panel van - Now with Subi EJ253 & Subarugears 5-speed
'19 Subaru Forester Sport

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