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Corvair Center Forum :
Corvair Center Phorum - presented by CORSA
Attachments:
Corvair Center
Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
PequotMonza64
()
Date: May 13, 2022 01:49PM
Hi. Newbie with a 1964 Monza with the 110 hp engine as delivered from the factory configuration. Car has just over 40k original miles. Carbs need rebuilt, synched and tuned, timing et cetera. Probably minimal wear but old rubber. Tubes have been serviced with Viton seals.
My newbie question is that I've seen tons of videos of people dropping the engine like it's a routine thing. How often do most of you do this for fairly routine maintenance?
What I mainly want to do is replace every gasket and seal at the rear of the engine near the oil filter, cooler and gas pump. Lots of oil leaking there, and it might need an engine cover seal. I've seen the harmonic balance pulling tool for close quarters.
If I want to do a thorough job back here, can I do it with the engine in the car? Should I be getting my hands on a lift?
Thanks for your advice.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2022 01:58PM by PequotMonza64.
My newbie question is that I've seen tons of videos of people dropping the engine like it's a routine thing. How often do most of you do this for fairly routine maintenance?
What I mainly want to do is replace every gasket and seal at the rear of the engine near the oil filter, cooler and gas pump. Lots of oil leaking there, and it might need an engine cover seal. I've seen the harmonic balance pulling tool for close quarters.
If I want to do a thorough job back here, can I do it with the engine in the car? Should I be getting my hands on a lift?
Thanks for your advice.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2022 01:58PM by PequotMonza64.
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
Phil Dally
()
Date: May 13, 2022 02:02PM
WElCOME...where are you.
You need a davemotohead cradle.
You need a davemotohead cradle.
Attachments:
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
PequotMonza64
()
Date: May 13, 2022 02:47PM
I'm in Ohio, Phil. Just west of Cleveland.
Does everyone drop these engines at the drop of a hat?
Looks pretty easy as engine removals go, but I've bought cars before and immediately disassembled them. I hope to avoid that trap since this one's running and heading down the road at 65 mph.
Does everyone drop these engines at the drop of a hat?
Looks pretty easy as engine removals go, but I've bought cars before and immediately disassembled them. I hope to avoid that trap since this one's running and heading down the road at 65 mph.
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
Lane66m
()
Date: May 13, 2022 03:24PM
I did a reseal on an engine in a Greenbrier van. I was able to change gaskets on everything, except bell housing and rear cover gaskets. Of course, I couldn't change the crankshaft seals on them either. It did require shrouds being off, but that wss no problem. There were no shrouds on the engine when I got the van..
I only pull the engine to do major work on it, ie, internal work. Everything else can be done in the car.
But I do have the cradle Phil posted. Makes it safer than anything else around to get engine out and back in. I also put together an engine test stand to run engine prior to a reinstallation. Finds issues sooner and easier to get it right before putting engine in. Generic 2 ton engine hoist, 1 ton engine stand and wood block stand for splitting case are also in my garage for doing engine work
I only pull the engine to do major work on it, ie, internal work. Everything else can be done in the car.
But I do have the cradle Phil posted. Makes it safer than anything else around to get engine out and back in. I also put together an engine test stand to run engine prior to a reinstallation. Finds issues sooner and easier to get it right before putting engine in. Generic 2 ton engine hoist, 1 ton engine stand and wood block stand for splitting case are also in my garage for doing engine work
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
Phil Dally
()
Date: May 13, 2022 04:44PM
There is more than one chapter of Corsa in Ohio...please join us.
We dig helping newbies as they are the life blood of the hobby.
[www.corvair.org]
We dig helping newbies as they are the life blood of the hobby.
[www.corvair.org]
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
PequotMonza64
()
Date: May 13, 2022 04:46PM
Thanks, Lane66m.
I have some daily driver work to do on my Volvos before I can really dig into this 64 Monza. I think the carbs are misadjusted, at least one needs to be rebuilt, the timing feels off. I think I will start with a compression test. It's a true 40k car, so I hope the internals are in pretty good shape.
I ordered a Harbor Freight 1500 lb. Steel ATV/Motorcycle Lift because I had a deal to get it for $99. I might return it when it gets here, but it was a deal.
I've seen davemotohead using that cradle. How is that sold?
Glen in Ohio
1964 Monza Sedan Powerglide 110 hp
Low mileage survivor, stock as delivered
Records back to 1967 in Pequot Lakes, Minnesota
Original dealer Mike Turk's in East Liverpool, Ohio
Located in Cleveland, Ohio area
I have some daily driver work to do on my Volvos before I can really dig into this 64 Monza. I think the carbs are misadjusted, at least one needs to be rebuilt, the timing feels off. I think I will start with a compression test. It's a true 40k car, so I hope the internals are in pretty good shape.
I ordered a Harbor Freight 1500 lb. Steel ATV/Motorcycle Lift because I had a deal to get it for $99. I might return it when it gets here, but it was a deal.
I've seen davemotohead using that cradle. How is that sold?
Glen in Ohio
1964 Monza Sedan Powerglide 110 hp
Low mileage survivor, stock as delivered
Records back to 1967 in Pequot Lakes, Minnesota
Original dealer Mike Turk's in East Liverpool, Ohio
Located in Cleveland, Ohio area
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
Lane66m
()
Date: May 13, 2022 05:13PM
Pm Dave on this forum. He just made a big batch and maybe has a couple still unspoken for.
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
JimBrandberg
()
Date: May 13, 2022 08:11PM
It's not that easy to remove the powertrain. I don't do it if I don't have to.
I would not remove the rear housing unless I had to. The gasket there isn't usually bad but I suppose it could be. Removing the housing isn't all that hard but scraping the gasket off sure can be.
If you have leaks at the rear of the engine the oil pressure sender, oil cooler seals and pulley seal are more likely culprits than the rear housing gasket.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com
I would not remove the rear housing unless I had to. The gasket there isn't usually bad but I suppose it could be. Removing the housing isn't all that hard but scraping the gasket off sure can be.
If you have leaks at the rear of the engine the oil pressure sender, oil cooler seals and pulley seal are more likely culprits than the rear housing gasket.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
American Mel
()
Date: May 13, 2022 10:13PM
JimBrandberg Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not that easy to remove the powertrain. I don't do it if I don't have to.
> I would not remove the rear housing unless I had to. The gasket there isn't usually bad but I suppose it could be. Removing the housing isn't all that hard but scraping the gasket off sure can be.
> If you have leaks at the rear of the engine the oil pressure sender, oil cooler seals and pulley seal are more likely culprits than the rear housing gasket.
Yeah! What he ^^^^^^^, said!
DO NOT DROP THE ENGINE!
And do not tear into the rear housing, until you have verified that, THAT is where the leaks are coming from!
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
Clean and degrease it, and then see where the oil appears first.
Jim listed the most likely sources, in the most likely order.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's not that easy to remove the powertrain. I don't do it if I don't have to.
> I would not remove the rear housing unless I had to. The gasket there isn't usually bad but I suppose it could be. Removing the housing isn't all that hard but scraping the gasket off sure can be.
> If you have leaks at the rear of the engine the oil pressure sender, oil cooler seals and pulley seal are more likely culprits than the rear housing gasket.
Yeah! What he ^^^^^^^, said!
DO NOT DROP THE ENGINE!
And do not tear into the rear housing, until you have verified that, THAT is where the leaks are coming from!
"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
Clean and degrease it, and then see where the oil appears first.
Jim listed the most likely sources, in the most likely order.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
WA. state, 1 mile south of the Canadian border, I am not at the end of the world, but you can see it from here.
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
PequotMonza64
()
Date: May 14, 2022 04:37AM
Thanks to Jim and Mel and others who have responded. That's the kind of feedback I was looking for.
Glen in Ohio
1964 Monza Sedan Powerglide 110 hp
Low mileage survivor, stock as delivered
Records back to 1967 in Pequot Lakes, Minnesota
Original dealer Mike Turk's in East Liverpool, Ohio
Located in Cleveland, Ohio area
Glen in Ohio
1964 Monza Sedan Powerglide 110 hp
Low mileage survivor, stock as delivered
Records back to 1967 in Pequot Lakes, Minnesota
Original dealer Mike Turk's in East Liverpool, Ohio
Located in Cleveland, Ohio area
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
JimBrandberg
()
Date: May 14, 2022 05:04AM
I've got a yellow Harbor Freight ATV jack I got a good deal on with a coupon. I wish it would lift 2" higher but I make do. I wish it was a little longer, it's pretty close to the tipping point with a 66 4 speed but I make do.
The cradle like Dave Motohead makes were a dealer fixture back in the day. 30 years ago I borrowed one from my buddy and had another buddy copy it. I've tweaked it a bit over the years, like to fit an aluminum oil pan. I also bolted it to the ATV jack last year since that's the only thing I use it for.
The cradle fits around the circumference of the oil pan so it lifts on the bolts, that way it doesn't squish the gasket. You can spread the lifting area out on the pan or the lower shrouds or the exhaust manifold brackets with some creative woodworking. The cradle isn't necessary just really nice. If you're only going to do it once or twice...
I had a Volvo 122S, came within 10 minutes of buying a P1800 and almost got into a 544 project a few years ago until I came to my senses and realized I have too many Corvair projects. I can still see the 544 if I walk into my neighbors driveway. I like the long stroke 1800 engine and the long shift lever.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com
The cradle like Dave Motohead makes were a dealer fixture back in the day. 30 years ago I borrowed one from my buddy and had another buddy copy it. I've tweaked it a bit over the years, like to fit an aluminum oil pan. I also bolted it to the ATV jack last year since that's the only thing I use it for.
The cradle fits around the circumference of the oil pan so it lifts on the bolts, that way it doesn't squish the gasket. You can spread the lifting area out on the pan or the lower shrouds or the exhaust manifold brackets with some creative woodworking. The cradle isn't necessary just really nice. If you're only going to do it once or twice...
I had a Volvo 122S, came within 10 minutes of buying a P1800 and almost got into a 544 project a few years ago until I came to my senses and realized I have too many Corvair projects. I can still see the 544 if I walk into my neighbors driveway. I like the long stroke 1800 engine and the long shift lever.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
jjohnsonjo
()
Date: May 14, 2022 06:53AM
If that is the correct mileage???? then go for the low hanging fruit. Clean as best you can. Then change the push rod tube "O" rings, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket and the oil cooler seals. Leave the lower shrouds off and watch. If oil is still coming from somewhere up high its probably the top cover gasket. If so, That is also a good time to de-flash the heads.
J.O.
65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo
Bethlehem,Pa
J.O.
65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo
Bethlehem,Pa
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
vairmech
()
Date: May 14, 2022 08:01AM
You are not that far from Bill Richards, He is just south of Cleveland by a half hour. Find the club near you and then you will find local help.
Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586
Vairmech@aol.com
Ken Hand
Handy Car Care
248 613 8586
Vairmech@aol.com
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
Phil Dally
()
Date: May 14, 2022 08:03AM
You may not "need" to pull the powerpack.
But it makes it 100% easier if you do pull it.
Don't forget...all the rubber is 58 years old.
Best practice is change everything this time.
But it makes it 100% easier if you do pull it.
Don't forget...all the rubber is 58 years old.
Best practice is change everything this time.
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
PequotMonza64
()
Date: May 14, 2022 09:47AM
jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If that is the correct mileage???? then go for the low hanging fruit. Clean as best you can. Then change the push rod tube "O" rings, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket and the oil cooler seals.
Push rod tube o-rings Viton and valve cover gaskets recently done.
Aware of the oil cooler seals.
I have a list of gaskets and seals to order. Will take the rear housing OFF my list of things to do. After cleaning and replacing easy gaskets will check for leaks at housing seal before thinking about pulling the harmonic balancer.
Will get gasket for steel oil pan and do that, but oil is leaking at the back more than the bottom. Mostly want to inspect and clean oil pan.
Excited to get started on the Monza, but have to finish a couple of other projects first.
Glen in Ohio
1964 Monza Sedan Powerglide 110 hp
Low mileage survivor, stock as delivered
Records back to 1967 in Pequot Lakes, Minnesota
Original dealer Mike Turk's in East Liverpool, Ohio
Located in Cleveland, Ohio area
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2022 09:49AM by PequotMonza64.
-------------------------------------------------------
> If that is the correct mileage???? then go for the low hanging fruit. Clean as best you can. Then change the push rod tube "O" rings, valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket and the oil cooler seals.
Push rod tube o-rings Viton and valve cover gaskets recently done.
Aware of the oil cooler seals.
I have a list of gaskets and seals to order. Will take the rear housing OFF my list of things to do. After cleaning and replacing easy gaskets will check for leaks at housing seal before thinking about pulling the harmonic balancer.
Will get gasket for steel oil pan and do that, but oil is leaking at the back more than the bottom. Mostly want to inspect and clean oil pan.
Excited to get started on the Monza, but have to finish a couple of other projects first.
Glen in Ohio
1964 Monza Sedan Powerglide 110 hp
Low mileage survivor, stock as delivered
Records back to 1967 in Pequot Lakes, Minnesota
Original dealer Mike Turk's in East Liverpool, Ohio
Located in Cleveland, Ohio area
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2022 09:49AM by PequotMonza64.
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
FLSteve
()
Date: May 14, 2022 11:57AM
Pictures will help us to guide you in the correct direction of what might be where the oil is leaking from. Also if the pushrod tube were done correctly they usually do not leak. But a visual inspection might help.
Re: Engine out for this? Newbie question.
Posted by:
JimBrandberg
()
Date: May 16, 2022 05:15AM
You mention the Corvair coming from Pequot Lakes. There was a Lutheran minister who died leaving Corvair stuff about 15 years ago. I think David something but I just can't remember right now. His son lived in St. Cloud and I bought some parts from him but never saw the Corvairs. I'm just curious if your 64 is one of them.
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com
Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com
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