……
Corvair DiagramCorvair Photo
Corvair Center
home forum corvairs calendar links Corvair Podcast
California Corvairs
Clarks Corvair
Clarks Corvair
“CORSA"



Chevy Corvair License Plate
Chevy Corvair Chrome Wheel
Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: Mark M ()
Date: May 10, 2022 06:23PM

I have been working on a 64 Spyder for many years, most recently installing an f/b turbo, turbo carb, and rebuilt 62-63 heads along with a ceramic coated exhaust (hot side of turbo coated too). Thanks to all of you here and in the St. Louis club who have advised me, provided parts and answered my myriad questions. Kudos especially to Steve Goodman for building a great turbo and carb and many PMs worth of advice.

The car runs great. After 100 miles the last couple days I've had no trouble. Fast and slow idle are great and although I want to put a couple hundred miles on it before I really challenge it, it does get boost. Manifold pressure gauge reads about 6 - 8 inches when I step on it. Not neck-snapping but definitely boost and I can hear the turbo whine.

Had a very slight ping after the first drive but Steve G suggested Champion 306 plugs gapped at 25 and after installation, there is no hint of a ping even with a rebuilt stock 64 turbo distributor (with a new retard can). It was 90 degrees here today and unless I had my foot on the boost pedal the temp hovered about 400 and only went to about 410 when I was on the pedal. I shut the engine down several times as I drove around town on errands and it started back up every time, so no YH hot start issues.

I do still have an exhaust leak where the crossover meets the inlet pipe. I pulled that connection apart and tried some Permatex exhaust sealer and a Bear River heavy duty exhaust clamp (link below) but that did not help. Probably not the fault of the clamp. I ordered some Silkolene 762 that the marine guys swear by and will give it another try (link below - expensive stuff). To get it apart I pulled the turbo and carb as a unit to clean up the inlet pipe so had to replace the outlet to turbo gasket and I scarred the new gasket on one of the turbo studs as I was putting it back together so now that union leaks some too. New gasket on order. Tip: don't put the studs in the exhaust side of the turbo until after you install the gasket and match the outlet pipe to the turbo.

All in all, it's a blast to drive and I cannot wait to really step on it. To top it off, a member here came up with a tach for me and it is installed and working fine.

Off to finish the bodywork and interior

Thanks again,

Mark

[www.silkolenestore.com]

[www.ebay.com]

Mark M
Project: 64 Spyder Convertible
1st Vair: 65 Corsa 140
St. Louis, MO
Show Me Corvair Club &
CORSA member

"If it's not broken, you're not driving it hard enough"

Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: The Stig ()
Date: May 10, 2022 07:01PM

Great update! Glad to hear it’s making boost. Turbos are fun. I sold my big turbo recently and immediately regretted it and started building another.

Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: JimBrandberg ()
Date: May 11, 2022 05:31AM

I see Champion 306 is L86C.
I'm a little fuzzy but think I remember running L87Y and L89Y, maybe it was L87YC. I'm thinking they were extended tips but again I'm a little fuzzy.
I suppose 86 is a tad colder than 87. How's the length? I'm intrigued by a Steve recommended spark plug and curious about the .025 gap. When I get NGK BR6HS they are pre-gapped to .024, I presume for the VW guys, I've been opening them up to .030, maybe I shouldn't be.
I got away from Champions for a long time with Bosch, then switched to NGK when they quit stocking Bosch locally. Maybe I should be looking at Champion again.

Jim Brandberg
Isanti, MN
CorvairRepair.com



Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: steve c goodman ()
Date: May 11, 2022 05:42AM

306 or L86 champion is NOT extended tip. I know better than to use extended tip plugs.

best wishes, Steve
Rear Engine Spec. Inc. Golden, Colo.

1962 spyder 3.0L turbo---1965 Crown V8
1967 monza 110/4---1968 monza 110/4
1971 amante gt 110/4
CORSA/RMC/PPCC/V8 Registry

Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: Mark M ()
Date: May 20, 2022 09:09AM

Update:

The $70 tube of Silkolene did not work any better than the Permatex stuff from FLAPS so I removed the crossover and inlet pipes and installed a NOS crossover and inlet pipe I got from a club member. I knew that the clamp I had originally installed on the first set of pipes had crimped the pipes and the new pipes are perfect - no rust.

When I pressurize the new exhaust with a vacuum and spray soapy water on the exhaust connections I get small bubbles at the crossover to inlet pipe union but nowhere else. Before, I could hear the leak and feel it by hand so the exhaust is sealed better than before. Not sure I can eliminate the leaks altogether unless I weld the pipes or pull everything again and go to a LM exhaust. Not sure I want to go to that trouble and expense.

I've put 200 miles on the car since installing the turbo and heads and it is still running great. I have pushed it some but have yet to really nail the throttle for more than a few seconds. St. Louis temperatures have been in the high 80s but the temp gauge never gets over about 420, even when on boost.

Boost gauge has been up to about 11 inches of Hg (I know the gauges are not incredibly accurate). Doesn't feel like it will go much higher but I have not really nailed it or stayed on the throttle for more than a few seconds. Seems like it wants to get boost in second gear at 3000 RPM but just cannot make it. I have not yet pushed it up to 4 - 5000 RPM in second or even third or fourth. Gets boost easily at 3000 in 3rd or 4th gear and pulls great. Took some interstate hills yesterday - the kind that tractor-trailers have a hard time climbing - with ease and picked up speed on the way up.

Eats a LOT more gas than when it ran on 2 carbs. Maybe I've been into the turbo more than I realize? spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Mark M
Project: 64 Spyder Convertible
1st Vair: 65 Corsa 140
St. Louis, MO
Show Me Corvair Club &
CORSA member

"If it's not broken, you're not driving it hard enough"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/20/2022 09:10AM by Mark M.

Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: alan_smithee ()
Date: May 20, 2022 10:51AM

Mark M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Update:
>
> The $70 tube of Silkolene did not work any better than the Permatex stuff from FLAPS so I removed the crossover and inlet pipes and installed a NOS crossover and inlet pipe I got from a club member. I knew that the clamp I had originally installed on the first set of pipes had crimped the pipes and the new pipes are perfect - no rust.
>
> When I pressurize the new exhaust with a vacuum and spray soapy water on the exhaust connections I get small bubbles at the crossover to inlet pipe union but nowhere else. Before, I could hear the leak and feel it by hand so the exhaust is sealed better than before. Not sure I can eliminate the leaks altogether unless I weld the pipes or pull everything again and go to a LM exhaust. Not sure I want to go to that trouble and expense.
>
> I've put 200 miles on the car since installing the turbo and heads and it is still running great. I have pushed it some but have yet to really nail the throttle for more than a few seconds. St. Louis temperatures have been in the high 80s but the temp gauge never gets over about 420, even when on boost.
>
> Boost gauge has been up to about 11 inches of Hg (I know the gauges are not incredibly accurate). Doesn't feel like it will go much higher but I have not really nailed it or stayed on the throttle for more than a few seconds. Seems like it wants to get boost in second gear at 3000 RPM but just cannot make it. I have not yet pushed it up to 4 - 5000 RPM in second or even third or fourth. Gets boost easily at 3000 in 3rd or 4th gear and pulls great. Took some interstate hills yesterday - the kind that tractor-trailers have a hard time climbing - with ease and picked up speed on the way up.
>
> Eats a LOT more gas than when it ran on 2 carbs. Maybe I've been into the turbo more than I realize? spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Careful on those hills under boost! If you keep standing on that pedal too long you could burn a hole in a piston!

--------------------------------
Was a 1962 Monza Convertible
Now a 1964 Spyder Clone/Tribute
Santa Cruz/Northern CA

--------------------------------

Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: May 20, 2022 11:39AM

Mark M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Update:
>
> The $70 tube of Silkolene did not work any better than the Permatex stuff from FLAPS so I removed the crossover and inlet pipes and installed a NOS crossover and inlet pipe I got from a club member. I knew that the clamp I had originally installed on the first set of pipes had crimped the pipes and the new pipes are perfect - no rust.
>
> When I pressurize the new exhaust with a vacuum and spray soapy water on the exhaust connections I get small bubbles at the crossover to inlet pipe union but nowhere else. Before, I could hear the leak and feel it by hand so the exhaust is sealed better than before. Not sure I can eliminate the leaks altogether unless I weld the pipes or pull everything again and go to a LM exhaust. Not sure I want to go to that trouble and expense.

>
> I've put 200 miles on the car since installing the turbo and heads and it is still running great. I have pushed it some but have yet to really nail the throttle for more than a few seconds. St. Louis temperatures have been in the high 80s but the temp gauge never gets over about 420, even when on boost.
>
> Boost gauge has been up to about 11 inches of Hg (I know the gauges are not incredibly accurate). Doesn't feel like it will go much higher but I have not really nailed it or stayed on the throttle for more than a few seconds. Seems like it wants to get boost in second gear at 3000 RPM but just cannot make it. I have not yet pushed it up to 4 - 5000 RPM in second or even third or fourth. Gets boost easily at 3000 in 3rd or 4th gear and pulls great. Took some interstate hills yesterday - the kind that tractor-trailers have a hard time climbing - with ease and picked up speed on the way up.
>
> Eats a LOT more gas than when it ran on 2 carbs. Maybe I've been into the turbo more than I realize? spinning smiley sticking its tongue out




The stuff you want to seal that leak prone connection is Rutland Stove and gasket cement... it says 2000 deg Hi-temp on the label, and is for metal and masonry. I bought this stuff from Ace Hardware, and was only 10 bucks! It is the only thing that has ever sealed that damn joint!!!
The gas mileage with the YH is going to be a problem wether or not you get into boost because the fuel air ratio doesnt vary with load, and most good carbs used for NA stuff can do this somewhat. The YH will generally go from rich in light load to super rich under boost. The best I ever did with that carb was around 18mpg not going into boost. It was more like 16 when getting into boost a few times between fill ups.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car
Test Start#2 [www.youtube.com]



Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: v8vair ()
Date: May 21, 2022 07:10AM

I put the late cross over and inlet on my 64 , no leaks now smiling smileySimilar set up , big fun . As far as fuel it thinks it’s a big block Chevy !!

1965 Crown V8 Racer
1964 Bill Thomas Monza Replica Racer
1964 Spyder Street Car
1979 Mazda RX7

Mike Levine

Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: May 21, 2022 07:29AM

v8vair Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I put the late cross over and inlet on my 64 , no leaks now smiling smileySimilar set up , big fun . As far as fuel it thinks it’s a big block Chevy !!

If only the horsepower matched fuel consumption ????

I’ve had a crown exhaust hsg on my 65 forever, and with the 3.08 diff and careful clutch slippage, you can get a very fun run through the gears when pulling away from st signs. I’ve gotten as good as 26 mpg @60-65mph on the fwy with a very light foot, otherwise that tiny YH sure can suck up the go juice.

Rocco

Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: May 21, 2022 09:30AM

Four years ago my clutch was going out. Any boost at all and it would slip. I babied it all summer and got 25/26 for normal driving. Now I'm back to 18 or so. I have gotten as low as 11. All tuned the same way. Its your foot, its your foot that changes things.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


Re: Turbo BOOST Another update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: Mark M ()
Date: June 20, 2022 11:09AM

Changed the oil at 500 miles and all is good. Dirty, but no pieces, parts, or even tiny metal filings. Didn't expect problems since I put on rebuilt heads, but nothing inside the case was changed.

I tried the Rutland Stove and Gasket Cement on the crossover to intake leak to no avail. Still a minor leak there. Can't feel it by hand but it will bubble if put under pressure. This winter I'll drop the engine and weld that sucker. I don't think I can get the two welded parts back in with the engine in the car.

Car seems to run even better when it is warm outside. Probably just my imagination.

Used a FLAPS tach and by adjusting the pot on the backside of my tach I got the Spyder tach dialed in to within 50-100 RPM across the scale.

Found a App called DragRacer and did three runs today for kicks. Not sure how accurate it really is but it was fun anyway. Here's the "fastest" of my times at 86 degrees, 39% humidity, standing start, and flat road. Didn't pop the clutch to start, nor speed shift, just spirited. And after the best run I realized I did not have it quite floored at the end but was past the 1/4 mile marker anyway. Might be able to improve a fraction if I put it to the floor earlier.

Zero - 60 time: 11.8 seconds
1/32 mile: 4.6 seconds
1/16 mile: 7.4 seconds
1/8 mile: 11.7 seconds
1/4 mile: 18.4 seconds

I did get some boost in 2nd gear (call it 4 - 5 inches) somewhere around 4200 RPM. Boost reaches 9 - 10 manifold inches in 3rd and 4th, but I only stayed on it for 3 seconds max. Even during/after the runs the temp gauge stayed just a needle-width above 400 degrees.

Question: So how long can I stay on the boost pedal? My engine internals are stock. Seems like someone said 2 - 3 seconds of boost max.

Mark M
Project: 64 Spyder Convertible
1st Vair: 65 Corsa 140
St. Louis, MO
Show Me Corvair Club &
CORSA member

"If it's not broken, you're not driving it hard enough"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2022 11:11AM by Mark M.

Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: June 20, 2022 12:29PM

The late crossover will eliminate your exhaust leak issue, I’m sure you’d be able to sell that ceramic coated one you have very easily.

Do you have a water/meth injection setup? At a minimum you should get that, and a Safeguard if your budget allows, the Snow Performance basic setup is $300 or so, I’d call them and purchase direct and request the proper size jets for your car, otherwise you’re getting jets for cars from 400-700 hp! I forget the advance curve on the 64 distributor, but personally I think the 63 is better if you insist on a stock turbo unit, and with the 63 you can get away with eliminating the retard can, but use a water/meth setup. I think the 63 fully advanced is 36 degrees total, someone correct me if I’m wrong.

As for performance, you should be able to do a lot better with what you have than you did, and you really have to keep your foot in it. Just watch those head temps and pinging. Beyond 3 seconds of boost is perfectly ok. Once you fix that leak, and get it broken in, do your 1/4 mile run with your foot to the floor, with that coated pipe and f/b turbo, there’s no reason you can’t make boost you can feel in 1st gear.

Have fun!

Rocco

Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: Mark M ()
Date: June 20, 2022 12:55PM

Rocco,

Not sure if I'll go this route, but give me some schooling on water/meth injection. I'm not planning to race this car, just some spirited driving so I was hoping not to spend the $ on a Safeguard or even injection, but your post about better performance has me interested.

I did some quick research on Snow's site. Looks like they are in Europe?
I see there is a reservoir and pump, but where do you run the plumbing on a Spyder? Does it require alteration of the carb and/or turbo?

Is the water/meth a mixture of water (tap water?) and liquid methanol? I see that Snow sells it as a mixture.

What electrical is required other than for the pump?

What happens if you run out of the mixture mid-boost? I am sure it depends on how you drive but how long does it last before you empty the reservoir.

How many jets in an EM YH carb? Just one, correct?

Mark M
Project: 64 Spyder Convertible
1st Vair: 65 Corsa 140
St. Louis, MO
Show Me Corvair Club &
CORSA member

"If it's not broken, you're not driving it hard enough"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2022 12:57PM by Mark M.

Re: Turbo BOOST Another update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: 63turbo ()
Date: June 20, 2022 07:49PM

Mark M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Changed the oil at 500 miles and all is good. Dirty, but no pieces, parts, or even tiny metal filings. Didn't expect problems since I put on rebuilt heads, but nothing inside the case was changed.
>
> I tried the Rutland Stove and Gasket Cement on the crossover to intake leak to no avail. Still a minor leak there. Can't feel it by hand but it will bubble if put under pressure. This winter I'll drop the engine and weld that sucker. I don't think I can get the two welded parts back in with the engine in the car.
>
> Car seems to run even better when it is warm outside. Probably just my imagination.
>
> Used a FLAPS tach and by adjusting the pot on the backside of my tach I got the Spyder tach dialed in to within 50-100 RPM across the scale.
>
> Found a App called DragRacer and did three runs today for kicks. Not sure how accurate it really is but it was fun anyway. Here's the "fastest" of my times at 86 degrees, 39% humidity, standing start, and flat road. Didn't pop the clutch to start, nor speed shift, just spirited. And after the best run I realized I did not have it quite floored at the end but was past the 1/4 mile marker anyway. Might be able to improve a fraction if I put it to the floor earlier.
>
> Zero - 60 time: 11.8 seconds
> 1/32 mile: 4.6 seconds
> 1/16 mile: 7.4 seconds
> 1/8 mile: 11.7 seconds
> 1/4 mile: 18.4 seconds
>
> I did get some boost in 2nd gear (call it 4 - 5 inches) somewhere around 4200 RPM. Boost reaches 9 - 10 manifold inches in 3rd and 4th, but I only stayed on it for 3 seconds max. Even during/after the runs the temp gauge stayed just a needle-width above 400 degrees.
>
> Question: So how long can I stay on the boost pedal? My engine internals are stock. Seems like someone said 2 - 3 seconds of boost max.

You can be in it for longer than 2 or 3 seconds, but the head temps are going to skyrocket. Dont let the heads go much past 400.

------------------------------------

Kevin Nash
Friday Harbor Washington
63 Spyder, Daily driver, EFI read about my project here: [corvaircenter.com]
first test start on EFI here:[www.youtube.com]
first official EFI boost test here:[www.youtube.com]
My new fan! [corvaircenter.com]
engine less 62 Spyder
Canadian 64 Monza Parts car
Test Start#2 [www.youtube.com]



Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: June 20, 2022 08:06PM

Go to nitrousexpress.com, the company is in Texas. Give me your email and I’ll send you a photo of how mine is installed, I put the water jet in the outlet of the compressor, and mounted the pump and tank on a piece of heavy sheet metal, anchored by the previously unused holes after removing the spare tire mount. There are other less “intrusive” ways of hiding the jet, but you want it AFTER the carb, so the outlet of the compressor is a good spot. Some guys run two jets, one on each carb pad, and some install it right at the inlet of the crossover, on the bottom side.

Btw, did you deflash the heads?

Rocco

Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: Mark M ()
Date: June 21, 2022 03:56AM

Yes, heads are deflated.

Drove 60 miles last night, mostly at 60 to 65 mph, outside temp 85-90, engine temp stayed below 420. Engine compartment doors closed

Mark M
Project: 64 Spyder Convertible
1st Vair: 65 Corsa 140
St. Louis, MO
Show Me Corvair Club &
CORSA member

"If it's not broken, you're not driving it hard enough"

Re: Turbo BOOST Another update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: June 21, 2022 06:20AM

Mark M Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
This winter I'll drop the engine and weld that sucker. I don't think I can get the two welded parts back in with the engine in the car.
>
>

Your car, your choice, but I would NOT weld that. It will a total PIA to do something like changing the blower bearing. There are hundreds of turbos not leaking without welding.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


Re: Turbo BOOST Another update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: Mark M ()
Date: June 21, 2022 10:22AM

jjohnsonjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Mark M Wrote:
> -------------------------------------------------------
> This winter I'll drop the engine and weld that sucker. I don't think I can get the two welded parts back in with the engine in the car.
> >
> >
>
> Your car, your choice, but I would NOT weld that. It will a total PIA to do something like changing the blower bearing. There are hundreds of turbos not leaking without welding.

Hadn't thought of that.

Mark M
Project: 64 Spyder Convertible
1st Vair: 65 Corsa 140
St. Louis, MO
Show Me Corvair Club &
CORSA member

"If it's not broken, you're not driving it hard enough"

Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: zarfnober ()
Date: June 21, 2022 10:31AM

And another thing about the water/meth injection, you have to take their hp gains with a grain of salt. Without being able to optimize your timing curve like on modern cars, you’re not gonna see a huge increase in power. You will however be ale to use the timing curve you have without pinging/detonation, so it will run better, and you probably won’t hole a piston or break rings. Power gains will come from either a Safeguard, or a Black Box programmable ignition, the VW guys use them, they connect to your distributor and let you tune it for max power through the entire rpm range. And a Safeguard kind of does that all on its own, look at american-pi.com for the full explanation.

Have fun!

Re: Turbo BOOST update smiling bouncing smiley
Posted by: jjohnsonjo ()
Date: June 21, 2022 10:44AM

A couple of suggestions. One , you can shrink the outer pipe by using a regular muffler "U" by tightening it the turning it, then repeat this until its tight and round.

If you really want to weld go to a muffler shop and find a short piece the correct ID with a flare like the LM coupling and weld that on the end. If your crossover is solid. Pull it off and take it to a shop and have the end flared, then use the LM style.

J.O.

65 Corsa Turbo Vert
79 Honda XL 500S
69 Honda CL 160 D
2010 BMW F 650 GS
2003 Bounder 36D
2013 KIA Optima SX turbo-AKA ZIPPY (wife,s car)
69 Newport Holiday Sailboat
Baja 150 dune buggy cart
Coleman HS 500 UTV
2016 KIA Sorento SXL Turbo

Bethlehem,Pa


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.