……
Corvair DiagramCorvair Photo
Corvair Center
home forum corvairs calendar links Corvair Podcast
California Corvairs
Clarks Corvair
Clarks Corvair
“CORSA"



Chevy Corvair License Plate
Chevy Corvair Chrome Wheel
Corvair Center Forum :  Corvair Center Phorum - presented by CORSA The fastest message board... ever.
Corvair Center 
Current Page: 2 of 5
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: February 18, 2022 08:40AM

Lane66m Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Coil chart from Pertronix.
>
> [www.pertronix.com.au]

The Pertronix coil chart is about as vague as it gets - LOL. I noticed they added a 0.6 Ohm coil for six volt V8 engines. If you just look at the old Ford Flathead you'll find it used a variety of ballast resistors and coils with primary resistance from 0.5 ohms up to 1.1 ohms!! By the late 1940's most cars used a coil with 1.5ohms, or a coils AND ballast for a total of 1.5ohms including many six cylinder engines. Hard to guess why Petronix chart says all six cylinder cars used a 1.5 ohm coil.

Logically when cars went to 12 volt systems the TOTAL coil, or coils and ballast, was changed to 3.0 ohms.

Or 6 volts/1.5 ohms = 4 Amps AND 12 volts/3.0 ohms = 4 Amps. Except for some "racing" version of engines that was the norm until GM came out with HEI.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: February 18, 2022 08:52AM

vairTer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The label on the coil, which is difficult to read because it is on the bottom side of the installed coil, says "1.5 ohms". I'll have to rotate the coil to get the full part number.
>
> It looks like I need to find the least painful way of breaking into the wiring harness to get full 12V to the distributor, and leave the coil and resistor wire intact.
>
> During starting, I'm guessing the 1.5 ohms of coil resistance will be high enough to not cause damage to the distributor, which needs > 1.0 ohms.
>
> Looking forward to opening up a 45 year-old plastic connector to get at a terminal. Broken plastic city....

O.K. your mixing apples and oranges. DURING STARTING the Delco system by-passes the 1.8 ohm ballast resistor JUST until the engine starts (starter disengages). This is a relatively short time AND the battery voltage drops when the starter is engaged, so the coil won't be damaged. Once the starter disengages, and the engine is running, the system voltage increases and the ballast resistor drops the voltage (only when the points are closed). So your 1.5 ohm coil AND stock ballast of 1.8 ohms are a total 3.3 ohms, acceptable.

IF you use a 1.5 ohm coil and NO ballast resistor you are asking for trouble!

On a LM the ballast wire is on the engine harness side of the connector. You'll have to find the wire on the "tunnel" harness side of the connector. I recall it's usually PINK or BLACK with a PINK stripe, but please confirm with your shop manual.

No need to open the connector. HOWEVER the tunnel harness to engine harness connector often has corroded contacts. I use an electrical cleaner and mild brush (don't use a cleaner that will MELT the plastic connector). Then I apply some di-electric grease to keep moisture out. Also makes putting the connectors back together MUCH easier.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: vairTer ()
Date: February 19, 2022 12:13PM

66vairman-

I think we're on the same page. I'm trying to leave the original resistor wire intact.

I have found the resistor wire in the connector and the matching wire on the "tunnel" side of the connector. If I read between the lines of your post, I think you're suggesting that I cut into this feed wire and insert an electrical "tee" so that it can feed both the resistor wire and the (+) supply to the distributor when the ignition switch in in the On position.

Is this correct?

1966 140 Monza PG convertible
Ventura County, CA

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: vairTer ()
Date: February 19, 2022 02:19PM

When the ignition switch is in "Start" position during starting, is the resistor wire still fed with 12V? I know it is when the engine is running, but I didn't know if part of the "bypass" procedure during starting was to interrupt the 12V to the resistor wire momentarily while the distributor was being fed a full 12V from the starter.

If there is an interruption in the supply to the resistor wire, then cutting into this wire to access power to the 123 distributor would probably not work.

1966 140 Monza PG convertible
Ventura County, CA

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: MattNall ()
Date: February 19, 2022 04:05PM

no. they both have voltage.

MODERATOR
Sea Mountain, between Charleston Harbor and Coos Bay! SW Oregon Coast
Click HERE for My Website...Click HERE for My TechPages!
...............110-PG.................................................Webered-Turbo

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: February 19, 2022 05:19PM

I pull the resistor wire pin out of the engine side of the harness connecter. This way if you unplug the engine harness from the main body harness they separate completely. In other words, you don't have engine wires hooked to the body side of the connection. After the pin is out, I just solder the new wire to the terminal leaving the resister wire alone being careful that it will still plug back into the plastic connecter.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: 66vairman ()
Date: February 19, 2022 06:34PM

vairTer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When the ignition switch is in "Start" position during starting, is the resistor wire still fed with 12V? I know it is when the engine is running, but I didn't know if part of the "bypass" procedure during starting was to interrupt the 12V to the resistor wire momentarily while the distributor was being fed a full 12V from the starter.
>
> If there is an interruption in the supply to the resistor wire, then cutting into this wire to access power to the 123 distributor would probably not work.

You got it, but as others said power is supplied to the resistor wire when the key is in START (if the switch is good). The old "electricity takes the least resistive path" applies so voltage from the starter via normal low resistance wire is presented to the coil.

You can add a distributor power supply wire as Rex suggests, but keep in mind the resistance wire is brittle and CANNOT BE SOLDERED, but yes you can solder on the connector, but if you over do it the connector won't fit in the plastic connector. Some crimp the supply wire and resistance wire in a single contact terminal. YOU NEED A SPECIAL CRIMPING TOOL! You also need the tool to pull the contact terminal out of the plastic connector. I have the tools and parts, but most don't. I also get more creative using a spare connector slot and add terminals so when everything is disconnected when the connector is apart. Then again I have the supplies and tools many don't have.

As you noted, you can still splice into the wire on the other side of the connector (form the ignition key) and put a connector in line to the distributor. So if you have to remove the distributor, or drop the engine, you can unplug the supply wire.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: vairTer ()
Date: February 19, 2022 07:11PM

Attached is what I did. Cut into the pink wire feeding the resistor wire and put in a butt splice with a hanging lead for the distributor

1966 140 Monza PG convertible
Ventura County, CA

Attachments:
Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: vairTer ()
Date: February 19, 2022 07:15PM

Sorry, forgot to do the pic downsizing nonsense.

Try again at 500 pixels.

1966 140 Monza PG convertible
Ventura County, CA

Attachments:
Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: vairTer ()
Date: February 19, 2022 07:25PM

Have run into mechanical issues during the actual installation. I couldn't get the new distributor to reach bottom in the mounting port.

But before I write back to 123 to complain, I tried to understand how insertion works with the old distributor. I often had issues where the helical gear would engage the crankshaft drive, but the old distributor still would not completely bottom out. I think I don't understand the relation between the helical gear and the tip of the distributor shaft, which must engage a slot in the bottom.

Attached is a picture of the small gap that I often got. Sometimes I could get it so seat completely. Seemed random.

The new distributor is even worse. I can't get the helical gear to engage the crankshaft drive, which would immobilize the distributor shaft. But I can't complain about it when I can't even consistently get the old distribor to properly seat.

1966 140 Monza PG convertible
Ventura County, CA

Attachments:
Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: vairTer ()
Date: February 19, 2022 07:48PM

Should I be concerned that the new 123 distributor has a non-bevelled edge, unlike the original distributor?

Old shaft is on top. New shaft is on the bottom.

1966 140 Monza PG convertible
Ventura County, CA

Attachments:
Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: vairTer ()
Date: February 19, 2022 08:27PM

OK, looks like I need to play with the oil pump slot, based on what I've read

1966 140 Monza PG convertible
Ventura County, CA

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: vairTer ()
Date: February 19, 2022 08:40PM

[corvaircenter.com]

1966 140 Monza PG convertible
Ventura County, CA

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: kmart356 ()
Date: February 20, 2022 04:44AM

vairTer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Should I be concerned that the new 123 distributor has a non-bevelled edge, unlike the original distributor?
>
> Old shaft is on top. New shaft is on the bottom.

The non- beveled shaft will need to line up perfectly in the drive slot to allow it to fully seat. Rather than mess with the oil pump slot, duplicate the bevels on the new shaft but that would void any warranty on the new distributor.
Have you spoken to the 123 distributor tech support about this? Maybe they can put you in contact with someone that has done this before, unless you are the trail blazercool smiley

Ken
'62 Spyder
Florida





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2022 04:46AM by kmart356.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: vairTer ()
Date: February 20, 2022 07:53AM

I am the trailblazer, unfortunately..., but rest assured that I will be giving my "feedback" to the US rep.

Unfortunately, I haven't even been able to get the new distributor inserted far enough to even see if the tip bevelling is an issue. I can't get the helical gear to engage the drive wheel; the unit is getting hung up on the way in.

Besides the lack of bevelling, I have a few concerns about the way that the new design deviates from the original Corvair design:

1. The oil sealing is implemented with an O-ring instead of downward pressure on a flange/gasket structure. I have fear that getting the O-ring to squeeze into the tube will be a pain, if I can ever get the unit in that far. I think the likelihood of damage to the O-ring is high.

2. I can't tell what kind of thrust washer design, if any, exists. It definitely doesn't have the external ring that the original design has. I have to wonder if they gave thought to the design requirements of having to drive both an oil pump and the distributor.

Here's a comparison picture.

1966 140 Monza PG convertible
Ventura County, CA

Attachments:
Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: AZ Troy ()
Date: February 20, 2022 08:13AM

Is the bevel really the issue?

It looks to me like the OEM distributor shaft is a smaller diameter in the area where the tongue is machined with the oil pump mating flats.

Looking at the new distributor, the flat on the end of the shaft looks longer than the OEM shaft indicating the new shaft is a larger diameter in this area.

So, is the "tongue" to wide to fit into the oil pump slot?

Is this really a Corvair distributor or does it simply say "fits" like e-bay items that do not fit?




.

Troy G. / Scottsdale Arizona

'65 140 Corsa Coupe, White with light blue guts
'66 140 Corsa Coupe - Crown Converted in the '60's, Black with 3 Yellow stripes




Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/20/2022 08:15AM by AZ Troy.

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: February 20, 2022 09:42AM

How will you clamp the new dist. down? If it had the base like the old dist. you could through away the o-ring and use a dist. gasket. I would measure every part of the 2 to make sure that they are the same.

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: vairTer ()
Date: February 20, 2022 02:45PM

Troy-

You got it right. The 123 distributor shaft is too fat at the leading edge (see the pic). The Corvair distributor tip is 0.420" across the major dimension, while the 123 shaft is 0.475", the full shaft diameter. This means the 123 shaft can't get into the access hole to the oil pump, which is where it is hanging up now.

To 123's credit, they (Ed Madak, the US rep) responded to my e-mail with a phone call today within 30 minutes and is going to machine a corrected shaft today and have it to me within a couple of days to swap out. I'm impressed in this era of supply-chain delays.

My sense is that they want to get it right for the Corvair; they just haven't had a guinea pig vehicle to work out the bugs on.

1966 140 Monza PG convertible
Ventura County, CA

Attachments:
Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: vairTer ()
Date: February 20, 2022 02:48PM

Can someone explain the function of this spacer-sandwich in the Corvair distributor? I'm wondering if it plays a role that might not have been anticipated in the 123 distributor....

1966 140 Monza PG convertible
Ventura County, CA

Attachments:
Options: ReplyQuote
Re: 123 distributor install
Posted by: RexJohnson ()
Date: February 20, 2022 02:53PM

By the angle of the drive gear the shaft is being pushed up. The thrust washer is there to keep the rotor from being pushed out the top of the dist. cap. You should probably ask Ed about that also?

RJ tools
Salem,Oregon

Options: ReplyQuote
Current Page: 2 of 5


Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.
This forum powered by Phorum.